From the rulebook:

Magical Resistance
Some Monsters and Epic Monsters in this expansion have
the Magical Resistance ability. When resolving a Combat
Encounter against a Monster with the Magical Resistance
ability, an investigator cannot apply any bonus to his die
pool from Magical possessions or Spells.

Effects that allow the investigator to reroll dice or manipulate
dice results can be used as normal.

Physical Resistance
Some Monsters and Epic Monsters in this expansion have
the Physical Resistance ability. When resolving a Combat
Encounter against a Monster with the Physical Resistance
ability, an investigator cannot apply any bonus to his die
pool except from Magical possessions or Spells.

Effects that allow the investigator to reroll dice or manipulate
dice results can be used as normal .

1. How are you guys going to interpret these? The official rules say that the resistance only applies to "bonuses to dice" added during combat checks...

2. For magical resistance.... does this mean that Shriveling (which does damage but is not a combat check) and Poison Mist (which discards monsters, also not a combat check) still work as usual? Themeatically it doens't make much sense.

3. And HARDER to interpret is how this will effect Storm of Spirits (allows you to roll Lore instead of Strength during a combat check....is this considered "bonuses to dice" if you are just rolling your lore instead?)

4. And as for Physical Resistance... does this stop the effect of shotgun that makes 6's count as 2 successses? It reads as if resistances has no effect on other card effects... but is this a "bonus to your dice." I'm assuming fishing net would still reduce incoming damage etc. Maybe this is why they are calling it "resistance' instead of "immunity" even though, unlike in Arkham Horror, you do not get even half of your item's bonus dice?

I MIGHT be playing later tonight and would really like to hear how you would play out these issues.

I believe the intended rules are that Shrivelling and Poison Mists (and Banishment) still work, while Storm of Spirits and the Shotgun both apply effects other than numerical bonuses, and are also fine. Basically, anything that says "+X" isn't going to work, and anything else will.

Personally, I think I'm going to house rule Magical Immunity to say "cannot apply bonuses, damage or discard from Magical sources", but I don't believe that's the intent of the rules as written. I'm still going to be fine with Storm of Spirits and the Shotgun working.

Thanks for your thoughts. I also think that is probably what is intended (?) but it seems strange. I may just thematically rule (in my head) that resistance just isn't strong enough to stop indirect damage.

From a game balance perspective, there is only 1 regular monster and 2 Epic monsters with Magical Resistance, and only 1 of those (Crawling Chaos) actually looks tough, so I don't feel as though making those three monsters harder is a big upset. The number of spells and magical items that grant bonuses is already quite narrow, so also restricting Poison Mists, Banishment and Shrivelling seems perfectly fair to me. But like I say, this is going to be my house rule, unless FFG chooses to errata its definition.

I agree with you, but I have a feeling you're right about the intended rules also. Well, I just got it so if I run across any of them tonight I will play per "the intended rules" and see if I think they need a little more "oomph."

Personally, I don't have a problem with several spells affecting the magic resistant monsters (like the Poison Mist). First of all, it is a magic resistance, not an immunity. If the monsters were immune to magic, then I'd be surprised if some spells could affect them. And second, some spells can be potent enough to overcome the monster's resistance. It's like you are sitting in a tank - you are pretty much immune to the small arms fire, but it takes just one anti-tank rocket to turn the mobile fortress you're sitting in into a steel coffin.

I think the rules are pretty straight forward in regards to negating bonuses. Sure, Shriveling and poison mist trump a magical resistant monster, but the point of the resistant monsters is to make you roll less dice when in combat with them. And when you are rolling less dice in this game, it is certainly not a good thing.

As for the shotgun and physical resistance, I feel the same way. 6s do count as two successes still, but you are still losing 4 dice, which definitely hurts the odds you'll roll 6s.

I played last night.. and I'm still not sure about Storm of Spirits... especially with Agnes's passive ability.

She can sacrifice health to gain two additional dice when resolving a spell effect...

If Storm of Spirits gives no bonus dice, and Agnes uses blood magic to sweeten the spell... can she use it on magic resistant monsters? In a way, her passive is giving her "bonuses to her dice pool."

Thoughts?

Her passive is giving her bonuses to her dice pool for casting the spell. The spell is then allowing her to resolve a different kind of check during combat, which is separate from a bonus. Agnes' passive can't actually give her extra dice to roll in combat.

Her passive is giving her bonuses to her dice pool for casting the spell. The spell is then allowing her to resolve a different kind of check during combat, which is separate from a bonus. Agnes' passive can't actually give her extra dice to roll in combat.

But it is giving her a bonus for the casting of the spell which the card says is an attack made with her lore... then you flip the card based on your successes you get different bonuses etc. If you aren't rolling lore for the cast of the spell (which is the attack), then how is it a spell? You don't roll lore to cast the spell and then roll lore again to attack. At least that isn't how the card appears to operate based on the text.

Her passive is giving her bonuses to her dice pool for casting the spell. The spell is then allowing her to resolve a different kind of check during combat, which is separate from a bonus. Agnes' passive can't actually give her extra dice to roll in combat.

But it is giving her a bonus for the casting of the spell which the card says is an attack made with her lore... then you flip the card based on your successes you get different bonuses etc. If you aren't rolling lore for the cast of the spell (which is the attack), then how is it a spell? You don't roll lore to cast the spell and then roll lore again to attack. At least that isn't how the card appears to operate based on the text.

I was going to argue with you, when I went a re-read Storm of Spirits, and you're right. I haven't actually played with it yet, so I didn't pick up on the wording. I would say that Agnes resolves a Lore test in place of a Strength test, and since the creature has Magical Resistance, she can't get any bonuses from Magical sources (of which her ability is not one), so she'd get the bonus dice.

By the same token, then, if she was Storming a monster with Physical Resistance, that she couldn't add the bonus dice? Does Jim Culver's extra die not apply when he's fighting a monster with Physical Resistance?

Re-reading the Reference Manual, adding bonuses is specifically listed as one step in determining the die pool, and it clearly states that you may gain one bonus from one source. additional dice from other effects are added in a separate step. So, since Resistance prohibits "bonuses", I am led to believe that anything that adds a numerical bonus (and that could not be applied if you added a different bonus) is prohibited, and anything else that is always applied is allowed. So Agnes will always get to apply her two extra dice to her spell, and Jim will get to add his extra die. However, if Agnes was using Storm against a monster with Physical Resistance, she couldn't get a bonus to her Lore test from an Arcane Scholar, or other non-magical source.

Re-reading the Reference Manual, adding bonuses is specifically listed as one step in determining the die pool, and it clearly states that you may gain one bonus from one source. additional dice from other effects are added in a separate step. So, since Resistance prohibits "bonuses", I am led to believe that anything that adds a numerical bonus (and that could not be applied if you added a different bonus) is prohibited, and anything else that is always applied is allowed. So Agnes will always get to apply her two extra dice to her spell, and Jim will get to add his extra die. However, if Agnes was using Storm against a monster with Physical Resistance, she couldn't get a bonus to her Lore test from an Arcane Scholar, or other non-magical source.

This is exactly what I was thinking, but it seems so convoluted, haha. It seems like imprecise wording somewhere along the lines that might have greater affects on other cards down the road. That's why I wanted to hear what other people thought. At least I'm not going crazy and you understand where I'm coming from.

Thanks for taking a 2nd look at the card. Hopefully it will get cleared up in an FAQ or errata?

This being said, I always assumed bonuses from Allies were neither physical NOR magical...

This being said, I always assumed bonuses from Allies were neither physical NOR magical...

That makes sense in theory, but I think in practice, both for simplicity reasons, and the fact that every ally I can think of who gives you a Strength bonus is clearly a physical fighter of some kind, ally bonuses count as physical bonuses.

Arcane Scholar not being able to help cast a spell to deal with a Physically Resistant monster is a weird by-product, but a rare corner case. As a Magic: The Gathering Judge, I've seen much weirder and less intuitive interactions, so I appreciate the value of having a single rule and sticking to it, even if it provides corner cases. You'll always get corner cases, unless you lay out pages and pages of specific FAQ rulings.

I see the point here. I'd say that Agnes cannot add dice, but I still don't have the final version of the game, and I don't know if the wording on cards / characters were modified since the version I have. Mind posting the exaxt wording on Agnes and the spell?

And in any case, if you contact FFG via the "rules question" option, you usually have an answer in quite a short time, so maybe it's worth doing that way.

I see the point here. I'd say that Agnes cannot add dice, but I still don't have the final version of the game, and I don't know if the wording on cards / characters were modified since the version I have. Mind posting the exaxt wording on Agnes and the spell?

Ok, so..

Agnes's ability reads thusly:

"You may spend 1 Health to roll 2 additional dice when resolving a [LORE] test as part of a Spell effect."

Storm of Spirits reads:

"Incantation - When resolving a Combat Encounter, you may resolve a [LORE] test in place of the [strength] test, using the same test modifier. If you do, flip this card."

Also, just a heads up, I sent FFG a rule question with the following:

As I read it, yes, you can use Storm of Spirit to swap the stat you use to fight the monster, but you won't be getting the bonus dice granted by Agnes. Good call on asking, tho. Thanks for taking the time to look deeper into this

As I read it, yes, you can use Storm of Spirit to swap the stat you use to fight the monster, but you won't be getting the bonus dice granted by Agnes. Good call on asking, tho. Thanks for taking the time to look deeper into this

No problem. GAThraawn also brought up some good points about allies I hadn't thought of. Now I am really curious whether they are considered physical sources simply because they don't specifically say "magical." I would argue that when Arcane Scholar was shipped with the base game, they weren't aware that they would need to include that keyword and that's the only reason why it's not there. And to simplify that problem with all other base game cards, I would just say they are non-physical, non-magical sources. This makes them a benefit to have even if you have a more powerful weapon.

EDIT: Now I'm embarassed because I shipped them a message with typos... (effects/affects, typed (es) instead of (ed)... I hate it when I do that.

Yup, I also think Allies won't be considered either Magical nor Physical. Curious to read the answers, tho.

Im a bit wonder. EH was always for me best example of clearing rules…. And now MOM rules looks a bit like mumble…. Conmand FFG don't put it down!

I also inquired about this topic, and about Unique Assets, and I received this response from Nikki Valens:

This makes Agnes actually pretty formidable against magical resistant monsters then. Being an ancient sorceress from Hyperborea, this makes sense to me.

It also sounds as if all allies are, indeed, considered physical sources. Counter-intuitive, but good to know. This means that Arcane Scholar can also enhance Agnes's Storm of Spirits when used on a magical resistant enemy.

Thanks for the info GAThraawn. It's also good to know about the double dog-sled question, though I doubt I would ever use the extra action to acquire a 2nd dogsled. Especially if Ursula is around.

EDIT: I just got a very similar response from Nikki. There was also an emphasis that ally bonuses are, indeed, physical unless otherwise specified with the "magical" keyword.

Thanks folks for sharing

I believe that Will test is part of combat encounter so I can't have any bonus dice against Physical Resistance monster from Holy Cross asset 'cause it doesn't have the "magical" trait on it? Correct me if I'm wrong..

13 hours ago, Wizace said:

I believe that Will test is part of combat encounter so I can't have any bonus dice against Physical Resistance monster from Holy Cross asset 'cause it doesn't have the "magical" trait on it? Correct me if I'm wrong..

As far as I can tell, you are correct. The will test and the strength test are the two tests that comprise a combat encounter. Resistance definitions apply to the combat encounter not the strength test during the combat encounter exclusively.