3 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Well, then it's just a matter of what we understand by Evil. Obviously Good and Evil are manichaeisms. Nobody is good, nobody is evil. Everyone has their set of values and motivations and act in consequence.
Me saying that Rebels' Thrawn is evil is like if I said that Indiana Jones' Belloq or his nazi friends are evil.
Sure, somebody could say "No, they aren't evil. They just have a set of goal and convictions that make cruelty and ruthlessness necessary to achieve them". Okay, whatever. That is what Evil is in Star Wars. The bad guys.

I concede, through, that there are some characters that walk on the outer side of Good and Evil in late Star Wars. Like Cassian Andor and Saw Gerrera.

Don’t try to fit Alignment on SW, the more complex characters totally break it. The only characters that fit the extremes of the Good-Evil axis are the ones like Palpy who is twirling a mustache that he doesn’t even have and the old school Jedi who sacrifices everything for the greater good. Everyone else is a normal person trying to make their way in the galaxy, sometimes doing good, sometimes doing bad, but usually just trying to get by.

i don’t care about villains that are evil, I care about villains that are smart and dangerous. Thrawn is definitely smart and dangerous.

1 hour ago, Sithborg said:

Weird. I would argue that the Rebellion and all they fought for was more successful in the new canon than in the old. They actually got, what, 25 years of peace. Whereas the old NR only got 10 between major wars. The whole "meant nothing" to me is just a weird argument. The name is Star WARS. There is always going to be a war.

This is so true. Saying it didn't mean anything is akin to saying the Empire didn't either. Also, I didn't get the impression Luke and Leia were feeling miserable at all at the end of TLJ.

9 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

So for the first time ever I am actually caught up with all the Rebels episodes that have been aired, so I excitedly came to this thread to geek out about DUME and everything that's been happening the last few episodes only to find that...

...

Nobody appears to actually be talking about Rebels. Instead, I seem to have walked in on an argument about whether or not you can believe in (and whether or not you should like) the old canon or the new canon or the EU or your own made up head canon.

Well... whatever people. You do your thing, I'll just geek out by myself over here.

Spoilers for Rebels Season 4 Episode 10:

This whole discussion generated from some hate people had for the most recent episodes. I'm with you, I enjoyed the episodes and look forward to the rest of the season.

I don't understand all the hate towards recent Rebels Episodes. This show is the Star Wars I was promised when people were pitching how awesome TLJ was before release.

Granted, TLJ has plenty of problems, but it's not as awful as many people are calling it, in my opinion.

And Rebels is certainly not perfect, but Star Wars never was. But the true legacy of Star Wars is better executed by the team making a cartoon aimed more at children than adults, instead of the teams churning out blockbusters. That should be very telling.

My current problem with the Sequel Trilogy is a lack of a cohesive vision. It's all relay race: pass the baton from one director and writer to the next, and hope the group following you knows how to clean up the messes you made.

8 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Sorry, I didn't see the need of addressing anything there. I gave my opinion, you gave yours. I was going to reply to it but after someone said that we weren't talking about Rebels in the Rebels thread, and because I know how internet conversations usually evolve, I stopped myself.

Since you insist, I will say what I was going to say, then.

As you say in your answer, the reactions of characters like Ben, or Han, or Luke aren't outside the realm of what is credible in human beings in a dramatic story.
However here is where I have to drop off your train of thought: Star Wars never was a credible dramatic story, and it never was supposed to be one.

I will use a simile to illustrate my words: The Lord of the Rings versus Game of Thrones.
Both works are fantasy, and both stories are about wars, dragons, wraiths, magic, and so on. Also, both works have heroes. All the way until the last part of Game of Thrones where the main character, the hero, loses his head.
It's at that point where you are reading Game of Thrones and you say... "Ooookay, this is no Lord of the Rings".

Ned Stark is basically Aragorn until they chop his head off because of it. Because in that world heroes have no place.

Back to Star Wars, Episodes 1-6 follow the same principle of Lords of the Rings. Good triumphs over Evil, because it has to. Because that is what is Right . Because that is what the story is about. No matter in how deep **** the heroes get into, the Universe plots to reward them with a victory because of their efforts and their suffering. Heroes can die, but only as a vehicle of ensuring a victory for their friends or the people they are protecting, or as a kind of redemption for moments of weakness. And if this moment of weakness happens, it will be something that you will get to see coming, witness, then even feel sorry for the hero, and perhaps even feel sympathy for them ("Oh, well. What other choice he had?").

Luke, Han, Leia are Star Wars heroes. That is, heroes in a Universe where heroes do exist and can exist, and their suffering is rewarded with triumph and "and they lived happy thereafter" endings. Even Vader is, in a sense, fitting for this since his moment of weakness (30 years, basically) is redeemed by self sacrifice in a cathartic scene where all his loses (fall to the dark side, Padme, his body, his life) are rewarded with the death of the dark lord of the Sith that threatens the whole galaxy and started it all.

Fast forward to Episodes 7-8 backstory:
So now Luke is a fallible guy that gets mentally destroyed by the fall of Ben into the dark side; that in turn is caused by the anguish of their relatives keeping a dark secret about him, what leads him to listen to the mysterious Snoke; that leads to our hero Luke wanting to kill him for it, only to doubt in the last moment, leading to Ben growing an immediate hatred for his uncle to the point of attempting to murder him and killing all his pupils, blah, blah, blah. Then his parents Han and Leia are demolished by the gravity of these evens and they have a mental breakdown that leads one to hide in her politics and the other to hide in his past hobbies.

Sorry, those aren't the heroes we know. Those are different characters in a different Universe. They are like turning The Lord of the Rings into Game of Thrones all of sudden.
What did Luke do wrong or differently to deserve that? Or Han or Leia?
Suddenly Aragorn got his head chopped off just because.

What leads me to the point where you and I will never agree:
You seem to think a story has an innate dignity, or respectability, for the fact of having been written by some author.
That the fact that someone wrote this succession of events for Luke, Han, Leia and Ben, it gives it the entitlement of being regarded as something worthy, and something that has all the right to be considered as good as anything else. Or that is the impression I get from this:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you care about the feelings of a writer when their writings are discarded and replaced with something else.
Like if they felt offended, their heart being stabbed, because the words they wrote--- Sorry, forgive me: the Art they fathered! ...was considered not good enough by the creator of the Universe and was disposed of.

The fact is, was just a job. That guy got a paycheck for creating a product with characters imagined by someone else, in an universe imagined by someone else.
It's just printed words on paper, and no way how loud you say "But ART!" makes it any different.

This is the same discourse Pablo Hidalgo and the other guys in the Story Group that are writing the new stories keep repeating again and again when fans point out the problems in their writings. "Who cares about the lore. We want to tell our stories! Shh... We are doing Art here, nerds! If we need to change the universe we will, because we are making our art here. We want to tell what we want to tell. Shut up."

Writings have no feelings or deserve to be treated equally beside their own qualities. They aren't any different from the programming code I write for a living, and most likely don't take any more effort to write it either. Nobody would ever consider for a moment not to replace a piece of code that no longer is wanted because they could hurt the feelings of its author!
A work is as good as its quality.
And the definition of Quality is how good something is at doing what it is supposed to do.

How good the Story Group's tale about Miserable Luke, Miserable Han and Miserable Leia at being a Star Wars story? Does it fit the Universe? Not really. It's crap at it. It basically needs to redefine the Star Wars Universe to be able to even fit in. And most of it is basically rehashed, and what it isn't, it's totally out of character.

So no. I don't give a **** about the individuals that wrote that story, or how bad their feelings hurt when I say that their Star Wars story is crap.
I don't care that story could work in some other Universe, or even in some other Star Wars Universe. I don't care that they had added internal anguish, misery, and cowardice to Star Wars heroes because they liked them more so; because Star Wars heroes never had the need of having any of that crap. I don't care that you think "But it's better writing!" because that is like saying that The Lord of the Rings is inherently worse than Game of Thrones.
They have created a story for an different universe, and that universe is not THE Star Wars Universe I care of, the one Lucas created.

I'm not complaining. And I do think Rebel's Thrawn is much closer to how he was in the old Thrawn's trilogy.
Thrawn is, all in all, the only character not created by Lucas I actually care of.
I was just commenting that the new Thrawn from the new book has much more going on with him, in his backstory, that makes him a bit different from how he was in his old trilogy, and how he is in Rebels.
In his old trilogy, and in Rebels, he was basically Evil Space Sherlock Napoleon. (Something I do like, don't take me wrong)
In his new novel, however, he is something else, with all that about the Chiss Ascendancy and his true goals within the Empire. He is definitely not evil, at least. Even when I would like to find someone that has read the new novel and can refute that impression.

1: I fundamentally disagree that Star Wars is a story where all the heroes could and should get "Happily ever after" endings. Even all of our named ones don't get that treatment. I disagree, because anything could happen in 34 years, and I'm gonna tell you straight up that when it gets down to it? Episode XI will have an ending where good prevails. If you think otherwise, I'm not sure what to tell you, because the writing is firmly on the wall regarding the course Star Wars is going to take. If Disney wanted something other than that to happen, Iden wouldn't have ever gone Rebel, would she have? I don't really know if one can actually compare Star Wars to LoTR or GoT, largely because the universes all have different approaches to things. There really aren't many, if really any similarities between LoTR and Star Wars that I've ever seen. And I'm not saying that because one is in space and the other isn't, so don't go there with that.

But when you think about what happened with Ben, the Skywalkers and Solos, it all fits together. It all makes sense. Ethos or not, if it makes sense narratively, then it makes sense narratively and should not be ignored.

As somebody who writes, you know what one of the cardinal sins is, of that practice? Ignoring the logical route in favor of forcing what you want to have happen. Yes, always have your end goal in mind. But never go X route because you want Z result, but are ignoring the much stronger likelihood of Y. It is the worst thing you can do as a writer, and when developing Ben, the Solos and Skywalkers, they took him exactly the right direction.

Honest to god Kylo Ren is the best character in the new trilogy, heads and shoulders above everybody else.

2: It isn't about hurting feelings. I didn't mean just the writers, either. You ignore a notable facet of the universe, you override it, you're not just gonna screw that writer over, you're gonna screw over a bunch of fans in the process- not just of their work, but others' works. I write, and I write alongside a lot of other people. Some stuff sucks, some doesn't, a lot has to change retroactively when you're creating stuff, believe me I get the creative process. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend everything has value. But when you're making a cohesive universe, EVERY aspect counts. So you either fix the broken stuff, or you deal with it. Which is why the Star Wars EU had to end. The Vong was the shark that was jumped.

3: Thrawn definitely isn't evil, and he's a **** of a character.

2 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

I don't understand all the hate towards recent Rebels Episodes. This show is the Star Wars I was promised when people were pitching how awesome TLJ was before release.

Granted, TLJ has plenty of problems, but it's not as awful as many people are calling it, in my opinion.

And Rebels is certainly not perfect, but Star Wars never was. But the true legacy of Star Wars is better executed by the team making a cartoon aimed more at children than adults, instead of the teams churning out blockbusters. That should be very telling.

My current problem with the Sequel Trilogy is a lack of a cohesive vision. It's all relay race: pass the baton from one director and writer to the next, and hope the group following you knows how to clean up the messes you made.

That is what happens when you do't take the time to plot out a trilogy and instead just have each director come in and make it up as they go along. I bet you that Rebels has a writing staff that planned out where they wanted the character and arcs to go over the course of the season at least loosely before then breaking it down into the episodes themselves.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

That is what happens when you do't take the time to plot out a trilogy and instead just have each director come in and make it up as they go along. I bet you that Rebels has a writing staff that planned out where they wanted the character and arcs to go over the course of the season at least loosely before then breaking it down into the episodes themselves.

I certainly do have issues with a lack of a true, honest to god Trilogy Plan. One could say Star Wars was the same way, but that was because Lucas wasn't even entirely confident it'd move on past the first film- I mean **** that's how Splinter of The Mind's Eye happened! (and boy howdy SoTME fans must have been VERY CONFUSED AND DISTURBED about Leia and Luke's relationship by Jedi, whew.)

But this is Star Wars. You gotta go in with a, "It's gonna work, let's make it work" mindset.

Believe you me. I have misgivings about the sequel trilogy myself. I have places I'd have taken it instead. Places I believe may have even been twice as good, but what we're getting is not terrible. Like I've said before, Kylo Ren is a very good selling point for me here.

Don't know if this has been mentioned but in regards to Thrawn, the civilian casualties at Batonn were not part of his plans. A certain governor did some stuff that resulted in the incident.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I certainly do have issues with a lack of a true, honest to god Trilogy Plan. One could say Star Wars was the same way, but that was because Lucas wasn't even entirely confident it'd move on past the first film- I mean **** that's how Splinter of The Mind's Eye happened! (and boy howdy SoTME fans must have been VERY CONFUSED AND DISTURBED about Leia and Luke's relationship by Jedi, whew.)

But this is Star Wars. You gotta go in with a, "It's gonna work, let's make it work" mindset.

Believe you me. I have misgivings about the sequel trilogy myself. I have places I'd have taken it instead. Places I believe may have even been twice as good, but what we're getting is not terrible. Like I've said before, Kylo Ren is a very good selling point for me here.

Yea, and at least with the OT it did set up the idea of a small band of Rebels vs and Evil Empire, it lends itself to a simple structure of the Rebels beating the Empire. He might have not known where the films were going with the details like Luke and Leia's relationship, or if Han would be back IE introducing Lando, but he did have a basic structure to work with. The PT he took the time to figure out where it was plotted which made sense other stuff in the film less so mostly due to him writing stuff himself and being piss poor at directing people. Lucas is great at world building and big picture, less so elsewhere. The ST I feel would have easily been better had it not been a 'reset back to OT' setting. Imagine how great it would be if they dealt with the Republic dealing with the Empire being another 'country' of sorts and have a whole cold war kind of deal with the First Order stirring up trouble and trying to reignite the war. But alas we got what we got, I just wish they had taken the time to try and not push these out like Marvel films. They should each have likely had a 3 year period between each film, sure have them each year if they had to do that but give the people time to work out ideas, arcs, and have everything planned out before jumping to shooting and correcting on the fly. Marvel gets away with it because at this point they just know they are going to succeed more or less and plan stuff out many years in advance.

I'm more excited over Filoni's new series than Episode 9 at this point, I want to see what characters he might create or bring into the galaxy and how it will all work. I have my own misgivings about him with silly stuff like the heli-sabers or the heavy push for Loth Wolves this season but overall I like his work. I just wish that he would be given a little more freedom than what Rebels has given him. The more competent and intimidating the villians and threats are the more we can enjoy our protagonists overcoming them, but DisneyXD seems to really want to keep the show kid friendly with people normally not being seen hurt or the like. Granted, Rebels has had some play with this like with how those two imperials in the first season were killed by the inquisitor.

On 2/19/2018 at 10:11 PM, Snaves146 said:

Well...... that was very similar to a previous characters ending....

Yeah. Kanan died almost exactly the same way Chewie did in the EU.

On 2/20/2018 at 11:07 PM, xanderf said:

I can't see nearly as interesting an end to the Thrawn/Rukh arc, here, which means they are either going to totally blow it and rush the conclusion (SURELY they aren't going to have Rukh come back from that encounter and suddenly be changed because he was spared, right? SURELY not ?!?!? ) or leave that arc to some undefined future point.

Which I'm PRAYING for. I do not want Thrawn to die in this show.

On 2/21/2018 at 7:48 AM, Stryker359 said:

The moment Hera said it, I thought "well that's Kanan dead..."

On 2/21/2018 at 8:05 AM, DailyRich said:

I thought it when he lost his lightsaber.

I thought it the moment I didn't realize there were two episodes this week and accidentally watched the second one first and it opened with "Kanan's dead"...

On 2/22/2018 at 7:46 AM, Alpha17 said:

No, if Ezra squares off against ole Sparky, he needs to die. Baring some ridiculous deus ex machina that saves him, it would be idiotic that he survives. Vader was just playing with them in Season 2, and he still tossed both Ezra and Kannan around like rag dolls. Ezra, by himself, stands no chance against Palps. Yoda barely escaped his fight with Palps, remember?

I don't hate these characters as much as some of the people on here, but to do anything else kills the suspension of disbelief, and is disrespectful to the entire franchise.

What if they go the complete opposite direction and Ezra turns to the Dark Side instead and becomes an Inquisitor or something?

I always kind of felt like Ezra was an attempt to remake Galen Marek's story.

I did not see any moon...

11 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Yeah. Kanan died almost exactly the same way Chewie did in the EU.

Uh, I guess but not really. Sure he saved someone while sacrificing himself from a bad situation but I don't quite recal one of Lothal's moons being dropped onto the plant from some space orcs from another galaxy.

15 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Uh, I guess but not really. Sure he saved someone while sacrificing himself from a bad situation but I don't quite recal one of Lothal's moons being dropped onto the plant from some space orcs from another galaxy.

More specifically, he died stuffing loved ones into a transport so they could get away while he stayed behind and exploded.

19 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

I did not see any moon...

The fuel tank was the moon!

On 2/21/2018 at 5:30 PM, Firespray-32 said:

As for why the character did it, maybe he suspected he was going to die. Force users are often slightly precognitive after all.

That doesn't really explain the why.

What part of knowing of your impending doom implies the need for a haircut?

It's not like he needed to look good for the funeral, because that **** is cloooosed casket.

13 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Yeah. Kanan died almost exactly the same way Chewie did in the EU.

Uh, no, Kanan died with dignity, and awesome music. Chewie ‘died’ because bad writing.

Still, I’ll never shake the feeling that Rebels totally lifted Kanan’s death scene from Jean Grey’s death scene in X2. Ruined forever

On 2/21/2018 at 12:50 PM, Sir Orrin said:

You guys think that Long varient of the Tie Defender will end up in X-Wing?

Still hoping!

16 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Has anyone read here the Thrawn novel?
Does anyone else find the Thrawn in that novel essentially different from the Thrawn in Rebels?

Depends. I think Thrawn is essentially different at the start of the book than he is at the end.

Rebels Thrawn seems pretty close to end of the book Thrawn. Which is fitting considering where that is in the timeline. The broad strokes are pretty much there.

Also, I can't blame the show for not being able to write Thrawn as good and nuanced as Zahn. Nobody can.

1 hour ago, DarthEnderX said:

Still hoping!

Depends. I think Thrawn is essentially different at the start of the book than he is at the end.

Rebels Thrawn seems pretty close to end of the book Thrawn. Which is fitting considering where that is in the timeline. The broad strokes are pretty much there.

Also, I can't blame the show for not being able to write Thrawn as good and nuanced as Zahn. Nobody can.

Yeah, one of my fears was that when thrawn came to rebels he would get the griveous treatment. I’m glad I was proven wrong.

6 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, and at least with the OT it did set up the idea of a small band of Rebels vs and Evil Empire, it lends itself to a simple structure of the Rebels beating the Empire. He might have not known where the films were going with the details like Luke and Leia's relationship, or if Han would be back IE introducing Lando, but he did have a basic structure to work with. The PT he took the time to figure out where it was plotted which made sense other stuff in the film less so mostly due to him writing stuff himself and being piss poor at directing people. Lucas is great at world building and big picture, less so elsewhere. The ST I feel would have easily been better had it not been a 'reset back to OT' setting. Imagine how great it would be if they dealt with the Republic dealing with the Empire being another 'country' of sorts and have a whole cold war kind of deal with the First Order stirring up trouble and trying to reignite the war. But alas we got what we got, I just wish they had taken the time to try and not push these out like Marvel films. They should each have likely had a 3 year period between each film, sure have them each year if they had to do that but give the people time to work out ideas, arcs, and have everything planned out before jumping to shooting and correcting on the fly. Marvel gets away with it because at this point they just know they are going to succeed more or less and plan stuff out many years in advance.

I'm more excited over Filoni's new series than Episode 9 at this point, I want to see what characters he might create or bring into the galaxy and how it will all work. I have my own misgivings about him with silly stuff like the heli-sabers or the heavy push for Loth Wolves this season but overall I like his work. I just wish that he would be given a little more freedom than what Rebels has given him. The more competent and intimidating the villians and threats are the more we can enjoy our protagonists overcoming them, but DisneyXD seems to really want to keep the show kid friendly with people normally not being seen hurt or the like. Granted, Rebels has had some play with this like with how those two imperials in the first season were killed by the inquisitor.

The concept art for The Force Awakens told me something wholly different than what we got: That the Rebellion was actually bad for the galaxy at large, and that large swathes of the galaxy had worlds littered with the results of decades of attrition. Which I find infinitely more interesting, because you could then paint [Imperial Faction] as actually maybe good guys. But, we get Kylo Ren with this stuff, so... I mean hey, maybe that tradeoff is worth it.

In regards to Filoni, yeah. He's great. But I am not loving these Force Wolves at all and I find them a very weird quasi Dues-Ex-not-quite-Machina-but-maybe-still-DEM(?) kind of thing. They just exist, their abilities don't... Really make a lot of sense even in the context of the force and...

>DO YOU NOT LOVE WOLVES!?

is something I wish we could get away from here and there. Yes. Wolves are cool. There are cooler things. Much cooler things. Like an actual escalation of war.

THAT has been my biggest disappointment with Season 4 thus far. The stakes have not been very high or very real if you ask me, I've not exactly been surprised by anything thus far, and quite frankly, I'm extremely sad and disappointed that it did not escalate the way I felt it would, and definitely should have. We basically ended Season 3 with an open declaration of Rebellion and a grander scale.

Then we go straight back to Lothal.

Which has Lothwolves. Lothcats. Lothbats. Lothpeople. Lothgrass. Lothrocks. Lothpaintings. Lothwalls. Lothground. Lothair. Lothdoors. Lothlight. Lothdark. Lothtoilets. Good god can we give these things actual names please?

42 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

The concept art for The Force Awakens told me something wholly different than what we got: That the Rebellion was actually bad for the galaxy at large, and that large swathes of the galaxy had worlds littered with the results of decades of attrition. Which I find infinitely more interesting, because you could then paint [Imperial Faction] as actually maybe good guys. But, we get Kylo Ren with this stuff, so... I mean hey, maybe that tradeoff is worth it.

In regards to Filoni, yeah. He's great. But I am not loving these Force Wolves at all and I find them a very weird quasi Dues-Ex-not-quite-Machina-but-maybe-still-DEM(?) kind of thing. They just exist, their abilities don't... Really make a lot of sense even in the context of the force and...

>DO YOU NOT LOVE WOLVES!?

is something I wish we could get away from here and there. Yes. Wolves are cool. There are cooler things. Much cooler things. Like an actual escalation of war.

THAT has been my biggest disappointment with Season 4 thus far. The stakes have not been very high or very real if you ask me, I've not exactly been surprised by anything thus far, and quite frankly, I'm extremely sad and disappointed that it did not escalate the way I felt it would, and definitely should have. We basically ended Season 3 with an open declaration of Rebellion and a grander scale.

Then we go straight back to Lothal.

Which has Lothwolves. Lothcats. Lothbats. Lothpeople. Lothgrass. Lothrocks. Lothpaintings. Lothwalls. Lothground. Lothair. Lothdoors. Lothlight. Lothdark. Lothtoilets. Good god can we give these things actual names please?

I didn't know about that in the art book for TFA. It is sort of addressed in Bloodlines considering the New Republic makes the old one look competent and that they basically told the galaxy to take care of themselves, lots of worlds like Ryloth who didn't join them couldn't even really ask for any kind of assistance and were told "Tough S***" if they came to them asking for help with the pirates.

Yea, I actually kind of think so far that Season 4 is the weakest season after season 1 which wasn't all that great in my opinion. Part of that is just a build up to this season and stuff like the Mandalore arc being weak and could have been serviced better if they killed off Sabine's mom or brother to set a tone of loss for the season. The Saw stuff was actually pretty cool and had some good bits. And then after that it is pretty much all Lothal all the time, which I think is because they want the series to come back to its starting place to show how far the show has come and the characters in it.

Rebels has been hampered by Disney both in terms of budget and in terms of content. I know that most likely that the next series will be on DisneyXD too but I hope they will get more freedom to tell the stories they want. With the current budget I can't imagine it is easy to make a bunch of big scale fights, especially if they need to develop new assets for it. Part of the reason I feel a series set between ROTJ and TFA, leaning more towards ROTJ, since they would have lots of assets from Rebels that could be redressed for the series.

53 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

It is sort of addressed in Bloodlines considering the New Republic makes the old one look competent and that they basically told the galaxy to take care of themselves, lots of worlds like Ryloth who didn't join them couldn't even really ask for any kind of assistance and were told "Tough S***" if they came to them asking for help with the pirates.

The Old Republic generally tended to ignore worlds outside its borders too - Tatooine and its slavery problem springs to mind. Or, during the Clone Wars, Mandalore and its crimelord problem - because it had "declared itself neutral" the Republic refused to intervene.

2 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

The Old Republic generally tended to ignore worlds outside its borders too - Tatooine and its slavery problem springs to mind. Or, during the Clone Wars, Mandalore and its crimelord problem - because it had "declared itself neutral" the Republic refused to intervene.

Yea, but the Old republic as bloated as it was seemed capable of doing something at least part of the time. The New Republic has been portrayed as being so gridlocked they can't get anything done. And to play devil's advocate, Tatooine never sent a delegate asking for help, and the Republic was dealing with a war at the time when Mandalore was having its issues. A whole busy trying to put out fires when someone who didn't help you try and put out fires is asking you to put out theirs too on top of what you are dealing with. Ryloth on the other hand was asking for assistance when the New Republic had nothing going on at all.

2 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

I didn't know about that in the art book for TFA. It is sort of addressed in Bloodlines considering the New Republic makes the old one look competent and that they basically told the galaxy to take care of themselves, lots of worlds like Ryloth who didn't join them couldn't even really ask for any kind of assistance and were told "Tough S***" if they came to them asking for help with the pirates.

Yea, I actually kind of think so far that Season 4 is the weakest season after season 1 which wasn't all that great in my opinion. Part of that is just a build up to this season and stuff like the Mandalore arc being weak and could have been serviced better if they killed off Sabine's mom or brother to set a tone of loss for the season. The Saw stuff was actually pretty cool and had some good bits. And then after that it is pretty much all Lothal all the time, which I think is because they want the series to come back to its starting place to show how far the show has come and the characters in it.

Rebels has been hampered by Disney both in terms of budget and in terms of content. I know that most likely that the next series will be on DisneyXD too but I hope they will get more freedom to tell the stories they want. With the current budget I can't imagine it is easy to make a bunch of big scale fights, especially if they need to develop new assets for it. Part of the reason I feel a series set between ROTJ and TFA, leaning more towards ROTJ, since they would have lots of assets from Rebels that could be redressed for the series.

1: This New Republic has done nothing for the galaxy it sought to save before it was an official government. I can well and truly say that I hate it, and that the soul of The Rebellion never occupied it, but did occupy The Resistance. But I always did ask, "Why restore something so horribly flawed?" to begin with? It's not like democracy on the scale of The Republic really works in space anyway when you really think about it.

...And I say that as a very freedom-positive individual!

2: Yes. They absolutely should have killed off Sabine's mother and brother. If they died, Sabine is the cause of their death... And it makes her refusal to use her device to kill what's-his-face even more powerful. But no. We got a wet towel arc instead. Absolutely flaccid pair of episodes, extremely weak start. But the Saw stuff was pretty nifty. If they're trying to show how far things have come with Lothal, though... They aren't doing a very good job. Honestly this just feels like Season 4 of Battlestar Galactica all over again. Strong, escalating first three seasons and uh. Uh... "Our first thought after hearing a song that doesn't exist and coalescing into this room iS OH MY GAWD WE'RE THE CYLONS!?!?!?!??!? "
(Granted. Bear McCreary chose, "All Along The Watchtower" because in the canon this cylon thing has happened before in some form or another, and it will happen again- hence that tagline, "All that has happened before will happen again" but then there's the fact that AATW has never had really any kind of clear starting point. Does it start when we're asking if there's a way out of here? Does it end when the hour is getting late? Or does it begin with the two riders, presumably the joker and the thief, are riding towards wherever they may have ended up? That's exactly why AATW was chosen, for what's happening now has already happened before, but at this point, who can actually say where it all began, or will end?)

3: Yes, the lack of budget has been a clear and present issue... But here I was thinking that like, y'know. They were getting more and more budget. But no, definitely not, which is a crying shame. As for a new series... Yeah, something between RoTJ and TFA. That's genuinely never been done before in this particular style/way so like, **** why not right?

Has it been discussed why Rebels is cutting out after 4 seasons?

Especially with promises of another animated show hot on its heels?

Rumors of Clone Wars demise was because Disney wanted the animated show on its own network and not on Viacom's Nickelodeon.

1 hour ago, patox said:

Has it been discussed why Rebels is cutting out after 4 seasons?

Especially with promises of another animated show hot on its heels?

Rumors of Clone Wars demise was because Disney wanted the animated show on its own network and not on Viacom's Nickelodeon.

It was planned for 4 seasons. It was set 4 years before Ep IV and each season was a year in the chronology.

Now that’s some classic Thrawn there.