4 hours ago, flyboymb said:

The 3/5 compromise was actually made due to pressure from the North. The South wanted each slave to count as one vote because that would cause their share of the House of Representatives to skyrocket. The anti-slavery proponents of the North knew that this would result in the South blocking any attempts at abolition so demanded that the slaves not be counted at all. The 3/5 compromise was just that, a middle ground between the two sides. Given that this was a measure to hinder power in the southern states, I doubt it was maintained once the CSA was formed...

I really do apologize for this. History discussions are the Interdictor to my hyperspace route.

Rabababa back on topic. So I have to wonder how the show is going to end? I'm sure that Hera will be rescued and the TIE Defender facility will be destroyed. But that will take 1-2 episodes at the most. I doubt that everybody is going to eventually split to go their separate ways, there's still an Empire to fight. The only thing really left in the story is to free Lothal, but that really isn't possible with an Imperial fleet in orbit. The whole of the Rebels crew now seems to be stuck on Lothal with no Ghost, the Rebel fleet is still licking its wounds, and the starfighter corps is likely unable/unwilling to mount another attack.

I know for sure that Dave isn't going to let the series end on a sour note so no major hero deaths this late in the game. That also means no extermination of Lothal by Thrawn's fleet. That leaves either liberation or kicking the can down the road as there simply aren't enough episodes left to start another story arc. I'm guessing that the crew, following the destruction of the TIE facility, manage to incite the populace of Lothal to riot resulting in the Empire losing control of the surface of the planet and possibly losing Governor Price as she tries to save her career by suppressing the rioters. I'd imagine that Thrawn would ready his fleet to bombard the planet in response when something drives him off. It can't be the Alliance, as that would be 'their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire'.

I'm going to seriously facepalm if Thrawn is defeated and Lothal is liberated by the stinking wolves... There's just no other deus ex vi to spring in this late in the game without getting shoehorned in outside of Ahsoka. And she isn't really the type to solo a whole fleet of Star Destroyers. In any case, we're likely to get an ending where Lothal is liberated and something keeps the Empire from just coming back with an even bigger fleet and glassing it.

I’ll admit I’m more than a little rusty on my civil war general knowledge so seriously, thanks for stepping in!

i tend to agree they should not mess with Thrawn. Have him receive a commendation from the emperor and be rotated out for some inept captain. Shame Constantine isn’t there to take over.

23 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Getting the Mon Cala involved is a fair point. Whilst they don't show up in A New Hope, since Rogue One it's established that at least one (big) Mon Cala warship was in the rebel inventory and we've yet to see any sign of them that I've noticed. (there might have been some answering Mon Mothma's call to action? Can't remember).

I think the defender programme is going to die to "budget cuts" given the quote about stardust/krennic from Tarkin in the trailers, but there surely needs to be something more significant to wrap up the story. I honestly expected more of a story to explain where the X-wings came from since they just seemed to 'turn up' this episode.

The Home One was in Rebels, and was one of the ships responding to Mon Mothma, so I'd assume the larger Mon Cal fleet is still in reserve or being refit for military action (they are all former civilian ships after all.)

I think the loss of the factory combined with budget cuts and competition for resources will be what kills the Defender program. Yea, I wanted more story to the X-Wings. As for Saw, the Kyber crystal angle hasn't been finished, or at least doesn't feel finished. Also, I get a feeling Cassian may yet turn up.

10 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

The Home One was in Rebels, and was one of the ships responding to Mon Mothma, so I'd assume the larger Mon Cal fleet is still in reserve or being refit for military action (they are all former civilian ships after all.)

I think the loss of the factory combined with budget cuts and competition for resources will be what kills the Defender program. Yea, I wanted more story to the X-Wings. As for Saw, the Kyber crystal angle hasn't been finished, or at least doesn't feel finished. Also, I get a feeling Cassian may yet turn up.

Actually, I think in the new canon, many of the mon cala ships were constructed as “buildings” and then launched in a mass exodus.

1 minute ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Actually, I think in the new canon, many of the mon cala ships were constructed as “buildings” and then launched in a mass exodus.

I had heard something to that effect, but I wasn't sure if it was current canon or very late old canon.

2 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

As for Saw, the Kyber crystal angle hasn't been finished, or at least doesn't feel finished. Also, I get a feeling Cassian may yet turn up.

THe Kyber Crystal angle has been finished in Rogue One. We now know how he entered there and actually, now that I think about it, iirc we have Saw getting his cybernetics

17 hours ago, T70 Driver said:

One thing I did notice was the higher rank of the person they were playing it for, the closer to the original version of the Imperial March it was.

Well, I think we need to separate 'played in setting', like the parade, vs played as background music for the show, which the tarkin bit there seems to be.

Odds are the 'in setting' version is that big band upbeat parade march, and that's it. Probably their equivalent of "the stars and stripes forever" or "battle hymn of the republic" from IRL.

The background music version seems to shift tone depending on how sinister it wants us to perceive the events, and the details of the event itself. The ESB version is meant to give the feel of a looming threat, while the rogue one version is more of a sinister victorious feel.

9 hours ago, flyboymb said:

and something keeps the Empire from just coming back with an even bigger fleet and glassing it.

I'm assuming it's been so strip-mined at this point its not worth the resources to retake. That's the only the acceptable answer I can think of.

However Lothal shouldn't be liberated at this point. Considering the rebels have already made it clear they can't help the planet, and all it takes is one Quasar with four bomber squadrons to pacify most planets, liberation would cause more harm then good.

Recent discussion actually is making me realize how disappointing Season Four has been in terms of introducing Rogue One content. Where are the K2-SO units? Where are the AT-STs? Where is General Draven, even just visually in the background? Where is blue squadron?

Hopefully we see more, in the second half of the season.

Honestly, given that it has been established by the writing staff that the " protocol 13" mention in "crawler commendeers" is the same one the empire used at Jedha prior to the deathstar's destruction of Jedha city.. I think we WILL be seeing Lothal destroyed. Or at least, all of its major cities and communities destroyed. Probably by orbital bombardment.

Given the empire is strip mining the place, they don't really need the populace anymore. (Honestly, the thing that has me curious is the orbital construction platforms.. Those are new. Maybe the empire is planning to move its factory complex to orbit, so they can mine the world more heavily without needing to preserve its habitability?)

TIE Fighter's concourse music is still the best Imperial Death March. It manages to make it seem heroic and triumphant.

11 hours ago, flyboymb said:

I'm going to seriously facepalm if Thrawn is defeated and Lothal is liberated by the stinking wolves... There's just no other deus ex vi to spring in this late in the game without getting shoehorned in outside of Ahsoka. And she isn't really the type to solo a whole fleet of Star Destroyers. In any case, we're likely to get an ending where Lothal is liberated and something keeps the Empire from just coming back with an even bigger fleet and glassing it.

You're kinda overthinking things, given how much easier there is a way to have the story arcs end up where we know they are by Rogue One/RotJ.

Hera and Chopper are off with the Ghost, doing Rebel stuff, when Kanan/Ezra/space wolves discover some new terrible truth about what the Empire is planning for Lothal. Using their combined space wizard majicks, they blow up something in hyperspace that creates a hyperspace 'dead zone' around the system that prevents anything from coming or going for decades. Thus - Lothal is cut off from the rest of the galaxy throughout the Rebellion period, but none of the major characters have to be seen to die, and writers have the option of re-introducing the characters (now much older - although not THAT bad, given Ezra was born on literally the exact same day as Luke and Leia, and they are both still actively involved in the galaxy as of Episode VIII) into the rest of the universe later on. Or not. It is a 'solution' that closes no doors, but checks off all the boxes we need checked:

• Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are seen or referenced in 'Rogue One', and in canonical material after the Battle of Endor (although nobody else is)
• References made in ANH to Vader being 'the last of his kind' by Tarkin (who had encountered the Ghost crew), and in TESB and RotJ by Obi-Wan and Yoda indicating Luke was the last trained Jedi around, means we have too many Jedi at the moment
• Filoni is pathologically unable to 'kill off' any of his star creations
• Heck, if we want to, it even explains Thrawn and the TIE Defenders being missing during the Rebellion-era movies. All stuck in the Lothal system! Or not. Again, it just gives options for future writers to still use elements of this material, or ignore them, at their whim

My dvr only recorded 1 episode 2 weeks ago, where the fleet gets shot down, and none this past week. Am I all caught up?

25 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

My dvr only recorded 1 episode 2 weeks ago, where the fleet gets shot down, and none this past week. Am I all caught up?

Yup, that's the "mid-season finale", and is it until 2018.

56 minutes ago, xanderf said:

who had encountered the Ghost crew

Tarkin did not consider Kanan Jarrus a jedi anyway. We have this statement literally on record just a few posts above in the imperial march example with him.

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

You're kinda overthinking things, given how much easier there is a way to have the story arcs end up where we know they are by Rogue One/RotJ.

Hera and Chopper are off with the Ghost, doing Rebel stuff, when Kanan/Ezra/space wolves discover some new terrible truth about what the Empire is planning for Lothal. Using their combined space wizard majicks, they blow up something in hyperspace that creates a hyperspace 'dead zone' around the system that prevents anything from coming or going for decades. Thus - Lothal is cut off from the rest of the galaxy throughout the Rebellion period, but none of the major characters have to be seen to die, and writers have the option of re-introducing the characters (now much older - although not THAT bad, given Ezra was born on literally the exact same day as Luke and Leia, and they are both still actively involved in the galaxy as of Episode VIII) into the rest of the universe later on. Or not. It is a 'solution' that closes no doors, but checks off all the boxes we need checked:

• Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are seen or referenced in 'Rogue One', and in canonical material after the Battle of Endor (although nobody else is)
• References made in ANH to Vader being 'the last of his kind' by Tarkin (who had encountered the Ghost crew), and in TESB and RotJ by Obi-Wan and Yoda indicating Luke was the last trained Jedi around, means we have too many Jedi at the moment
• Filoni is pathologically unable to 'kill off' any of his star creations
• Heck, if we want to, it even explains Thrawn and the TIE Defenders being missing during the Rebellion-era movies. All stuck in the Lothal system! Or not. Again, it just gives options for future writers to still use elements of this material, or ignore them, at their whim

Are you recycling one of the most stupid Doctor Who plotpoints?

3 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Are you recycling one of the most stupid Doctor Who plotpoints?

I was tempted to add that as a fifth bullet point. "Also important that the solution not be an original idea, and be lifted shamelessly from some other source."

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Getting the Mon Cala involved is a fair point. Whilst they don't show up in A New Hope, since Rogue One it's established that at least one (big) Mon Cala warship was in the rebel inventory and we've yet to see any sign of them that I've noticed. (there might have been some answering Mon Mothma's call to action? Can't remember).

I think the defender programme is going to die to "budget cuts" given the quote about stardust/krennic from Tarkin in the trailers, but there surely needs to be something more significant to wrap up the story. I honestly expected more of a story to explain where the X-wings came from since they just seemed to 'turn up' this episode.

Yeah uh, Home One itself was present.

2 hours ago, xanderf said:

You're kinda overthinking things, given how much easier there is a way to have the story arcs end up where we know they are by Rogue One/RotJ.

Hera and Chopper are off with the Ghost, doing Rebel stuff, when Kanan/Ezra/space wolves discover some new terrible truth about what the Empire is planning for Lothal. Using their combined space wizard majicks, they blow up something in hyperspace that creates a hyperspace 'dead zone' around the system that prevents anything from coming or going for decades. Thus - Lothal is cut off from the rest of the galaxy throughout the Rebellion period, but none of the major characters have to be seen to die, and writers have the option of re-introducing the characters (now much older - although not THAT bad, given Ezra was born on literally the exact same day as Luke and Leia, and they are both still actively involved in the galaxy as of Episode VIII) into the rest of the universe later on. Or not. It is a 'solution' that closes no doors, but checks off all the boxes we need checked:

• Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are seen or referenced in 'Rogue One', and in canonical material after the Battle of Endor (although nobody else is)
• References made in ANH to Vader being 'the last of his kind' by Tarkin (who had encountered the Ghost crew), and in TESB and RotJ by Obi-Wan and Yoda indicating Luke was the last trained Jedi around, means we have too many Jedi at the moment
• Filoni is pathologically unable to 'kill off' any of his star creations
• Heck, if we want to, it even explains Thrawn and the TIE Defenders being missing during the Rebellion-era movies. All stuck in the Lothal system! Or not. Again, it just gives options for future writers to still use elements of this material, or ignore them, at their whim

Exceedingly light BFII2 spoiler. Do not look directly at the spoiler if there is any chance of a plot being spoiled. If you look at the spoiler, promptly remove the offending memory cell by any means necessary.

Spoiler will begin in 5...

4...

3...

2...

1...

Spoiler will now commence.

IIRC: Your spoiler means nothing as all events in video games can be ignored. They are not cannon. Only the characters themselves and the stuff they use is considered canon, but not the plot points. So if characters drop in dialog for example that lothal exist than lothal would be cannon. If they drop in dialog that lothal get blown up … still not canon.

At least that is my understanding of how disney canon handles videogames.

I haven't seen any specific rules myself. The last BF game kind of shot down the notion that EVERYTHING past 2014 was canon as that would require all kinds of backflips to figure out how to fit a third Death Star battle into the mythos (not like folks haven't shoehorned one in before http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Death_Star_III ). Other than levels like that and player-influenced game actions wouldn't everything fall under the 'one universe' canon policy including scripted dialogue?

No, games now are definitely Canon. "Ragtag" was cancelled in part due to the fact that Disney/LFL had to approve every little detail (and partially due to EA having very strict demands about the game being minimum 9/10, but this is another topic). Unless explicitly noted - like with Galaxy of Heroes and even then, "TIE Reaper" had it's official name given first in that product. So if somebody says the thing in the spoiler as dialogue, somebody from the LFL team gave it an okay. They made a big deal in pre-release that this was an original canon story adding to the SW universe.

Soooo we're back up to 3 Death Stars?

7 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

IIRC: Your spoiler means nothing as all events in video games can be ignored. They are not cannon. Only the characters themselves and the stuff they use is considered canon, but not the plot points. So if characters drop in dialog for example that lothal exist than lothal would be cannon. If they drop in dialog that lothal get blown up … still not canon.

At least that is my understanding of how disney canon handles videogames.

Ahah. No... That use d to be true, but any serious game is canon. You can forego the Lego stuff mostly, but almost everything else is canon.

Dunno where you got this idea!

45 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Ahah. No... That use d to be true, but any serious game is canon. You can forego the Lego stuff mostly, but almost everything else is canon.

Dunno where you got this idea!

At least the campaigns with the "good ending" are supposed to be canon.
Obviously, multiplayer matches, what if scenarios, mods and random/custom content aren't.

It was funny how they tried so hard in the pre-Disney canon to fit in stuff like SW Galaxies, when they would even shoehorn non-campaign content into the old C-canon level.
"At least one rebel pilot faced Countess Ryad in her TIE Defender near this and that system, and defeated her." (anonymous players randomly encountering named enemies in a MMO).

2 hours ago, Azrapse said:

At least the campaigns with the "good ending" are supposed to be canon.
Obviously, multiplayer matches, what if scenarios, mods and random/custom content aren't.

It was funny how they tried so hard in the pre-Disney canon to fit in stuff like SW Galaxies, when they would even shoehorn non-campaign content into the old C-canon level.
"At least one rebel pilot faced Countess Ryad in her TIE Defender near this and that system, and defeated her." (anonymous players randomly encountering named enemies in a MMO).

That was mostly the Wiki pulling the weight though, with SWG. SWG never really tried very hard to be canon.

9 hours ago, flyboymb said:

Soooo we're back up to 3 Death Stars?

No, because just like the one in TFA (and RoTJ), this one is

BIGGER

and obviously better.