13 hours ago, eMeM said:

You don't need to be an ace if you are unhittable,

You are only unhittable when you are an ace. Dumb rookies don't have the skill to evade slow turbolasers

7 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Iden Versio is Rebel Scum. So is her buddy Del. But they're both good pilots and both have X-Wings. They have very, very **** good reasons for leaving The Empire but there you go. Iden as an X-Wing pilot makes a load of sense to include as well.

Oh why did I click on it. Oh why

1 hour ago, BenderIsGreat said:

I hope it's Anime. I want some Hera fan service LOL.

The Rebel Alliance seems to confer rank through some kind of arbitrary process. They made Lando a general to reward him for going to get Han. Luke blew up the Death Star and is only a commander. During the Clone Wars, Jedi who have heretofore displayed zero tactical, strategic, or leadership abilities are assigned to lead legions of clones. Don't even get me started on the rest of this Mary Sue era.

It's best not to think about it. It's just too darn stupid sometimes.

I refused to buy into the Mary Sue thing...but it's pretty hard to stick up for it as of late. I like the fact they have introduced strong female characters, and I'd be lying if I didn't say Sabine and Jyn have become two of my favorites from the Disney era... but it is getting ludicrous. The leads in pretty much all of the new content is female.

Force Awakens - Rey

Rebels - Sabine is the master of everything, Hera is the best pilot ever born. Seems like a lot of the last two seasons were Sabine focused.

R1 - Jyn

Battlefront 2 - Versio

No male mains. Yes we got Finn, Poe, Ezra, Kanan...and I'll circle around, but they are all supporting the singular central character.

I had high hopes for Rebels, and I still really enjoy it. For me when it started I wanted to draw parallels to how Firefly worked. The central theme of both shows is about family. They both had plot armor to the max for the "family". Serenity was just as much a character as Mal and his crew. Each member of the crew got time to shine and showcase their strengths and weaknesses and deal with each specific character growth and development.

I feel like they wanted to make the Ghost feel like it's own character, but they never really show the intimate bond of it being their home more than references here and there. You get that real sense of a bond from Han Solo and Malcom Reynolds.

All the rebels main cast are "too powerful" and it just feels wrong. They don't experience defeat as much as they should. They have no tragedy. The plot armor is so thick it's taking away from tension that should be there.

With this analogy Hera is our main character. But she has no flaws. She is a master pilot, tactician, marksman, and is incredibly skilled in hand to hand combat. Her only real flaw is her dedication to the cause and her crew.

Kanan is the most flawed character in the show, has shown the most interesting character development, but feels like he has been pushed aside. I don't like Freddy Jr. But I have been very impressed with his voice work in this show and the writing around him. I think his story is the best in the series, and if it ends the way everyone thinks it will (self sacrifice) then I will not be disappointed with his arc. He falls into the same role as Zoe (from firelfy) as he is the rock of the team, but deep down more flawed than anyone.

Ezra pisses me off, straight up. They are trying to make him this conflicted person riding the line between dark and light, but he doesn't really show the struggle. It's like the dark side is a bowl of ice cream and he's able to push it aside and forget about it.

Sabine I love to hate. She is my favorite because I love her character premise, but I think it's poorly executed. Trials of the Darksabre was my favorite episode...because it showed her flaws. But then when she challenges Saxon and bests him so easily...its straight up BS. I love her because shes an artist, she has demons deep down, and shes a bit reckless...which is how I feel I am personally. But the fact she is the definition of Mary Sue is disappointing. I

Zeb is like Jayne from Firefly, and I feel these two lineup perfectly. He's reckless, love to dive headfirst into the conflict, and enjoys the battle. It would be nice if he butted heads a bit more than he does.

argument: it's a kids show

Okay. Let me show you the Nicktoons TMNT. Leo was so badly defeated with self sacrifice at the end of season 2. They had to leave NYC after being defeated. Even though it feels more kiddy at times than Rebels it also feels more mature at the same time.

Clone Wars had defeat, the whole story line with the malfunctioning order 66 chip was fantastic.

Lets go back in history... anyone remember Exo-Squad? main characters died, got captured, tortured. This was a saturday morning cartoon. There was defeat. There was tragedy. Drama. It was amazing! I was in grade 5 when I was watching it and I loved it then and love it even more now.

okay... I got out of hand here...

26 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Yeah I can think of at least two more X-Wing pilots they can add to that as well, and now I know why it's taken so long. Huge spoilers ahead, you have been warned.

Iden Versio is Rebel Scum. So is her buddy Del. But they're both good pilots and both have X-Wings. They have very, very **** good reasons for leaving The Empire but there you go. Iden as an X-Wing pilot makes a load of sense to include as well.

This is not a Rebels spoiler, this is a Battlefront spoiler. please mark it so.

1 minute ago, HaranHaste said:

This is not a Rebels spoiler, this is a Battlefront spoiler. please mark it so.

yea... that threw me too

35 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

I refused to buy into the Mary Sue thing...but it's pretty hard to stick up for it as of late. I like the fact they have introduced strong female characters, and I'd be lying if I didn't say Sabine and Jyn have become two of my favorites from the Disney era... but it is getting ludicrous. The leads in pretty much all of the new content is female.

Force Awakens - Rey

Rebels - Sabine is the master of everything, Hera is the best pilot ever born. Seems like a lot of the last two seasons were Sabine focused.

R1 - Jyn

Battlefront 2 - Versio

No male mains. Yes we got Finn, Poe, Ezra, Kanan...and I'll circle around, but they are all supporting the singular central character.

I had high hopes for Rebels, and I still really enjoy it. For me when it started I wanted to draw parallels to how Firefly worked. The central theme of both shows is about family. They both had plot armor to the max for the "family". Serenity was just as much a character as Mal and his crew. Each member of the crew got time to shine and showcase their strengths and weaknesses and deal with each specific character growth and development.

I feel like they wanted to make the Ghost feel like it's own character, but they never really show the intimate bond of it being their home more than references here and there. You get that real sense of a bond from Han Solo and Malcom Reynolds.

All the rebels main cast are "too powerful" and it just feels wrong. They don't experience defeat as much as they should. They have no tragedy. The plot armor is so thick it's taking away from tension that should be there.

With this analogy Hera is our main character. But she has no flaws. She is a master pilot, tactician, marksman, and is incredibly skilled in hand to hand combat. Her only real flaw is her dedication to the cause and her crew.

Kanan is the most flawed character in the show, has shown the most interesting character development, but feels like he has been pushed aside. I don't like Freddy Jr. But I have been very impressed with his voice work in this show and the writing around him. I think his story is the best in the series, and if it ends the way everyone thinks it will (self sacrifice) then I will not be disappointed with his arc. He falls into the same role as Zoe (from firelfy) as he is the rock of the team, but deep down more flawed than anyone.

Ezra pisses me off, straight up. They are trying to make him this conflicted person riding the line between dark and light, but he doesn't really show the struggle. It's like the dark side is a bowl of ice cream and he's able to push it aside and forget about it.

Sabine I love to hate. She is my favorite because I love her character premise, but I think it's poorly executed. Trials of the Darksabre was my favorite episode...because it showed her flaws. But then when she challenges Saxon and bests him so easily...its straight up BS. I love her because shes an artist, she has demons deep down, and shes a bit reckless...which is how I feel I am personally. But the fact she is the definition of Mary Sue is disappointing. I

Zeb is like Jayne from Firefly, and I feel these two lineup perfectly. He's reckless, love to dive headfirst into the conflict, and enjoys the battle. It would be nice if he butted heads a bit more than he does.

argument: it's a kids show

Okay. Let me show you the Nicktoons TMNT. Leo was so badly defeated with self sacrifice at the end of season 2. They had to leave NYC after being defeated. Even though it feels more kiddy at times than Rebels it also feels more mature at the same time.

Clone Wars had defeat, the whole story line with the malfunctioning order 66 chip was fantastic.

Lets go back in history... anyone remember Exo-Squad? main characters died, got captured, tortured. This was a saturday morning cartoon. There was defeat. There was tragedy. Drama. It was amazing! I was in grade 5 when I was watching it and I loved it then and love it even more now.

okay... I got out of hand here...

Ok, I think this is the best post I've ever read on this forum. I agree with the whole "Disney only using females as the main heros of Star Wars" thing. Strong female characters are an absolutely necessary, but throw my six year old son a bone once in a while in any one of the new stuff. My best friend's daughter is loving the girls though, so I'm not really complaining, but every other story seems fair. And I know we(read males) already got Han, Luke, Lando, etc., but the kids want to be new characters. My son does play as Cassian sometimes, but he even mentioned how all the girls are the "leaders" so young boys do notice. I also agree with the hope for a Firefly/Rebels parallel and after the first few episodes, I felt like they might take it there, but alas, it has just turned into the "Sabine is awesome" show where our heros face no real challenges and there is never a real sense of loss or even danger. The Empire is portrayed as bumbling idiots who are only there to be blown up and this season, at least, only there to be disarmed/stunned/not killed in some other fashion, but still neutralized. The main characters face no issues. Even Sabine's family was spared. If I ever have to be in a war, I hope it is as easy as it is for our heros. And I agree about Exo-Sqaud. It was a great show and had legit struggles for the main characters. Great post.

We had a more or less a whole season for development of Kanan and another for Ezra, one for Sabine and now we seem to get a little bit more of Hera, who had been not only Spectre One, but as well Phoenix leader for a while now. Her pilot skills got up as well, remember that time she met Fenn Rau and he started hitting on her? ;-)

Protagonist develop during a story. They are not static, unlike our pilot cards ... but hey, even Poe got better there

The rebels crew is very much like an RPG group (and Sam Witwer actually is the GM :p), they start as AoR with an "knight level" 150xp guardian-soresu, another 150xp thief and force emergent, an 150xp ace, hotshot/pilot (hey, hera is like my verpine ace;-)), some great astromech, most likely with the spy career and Zeb, the muscles of the team, some Marauder/Heavy, oh and Sabine, played by some guy with an total overblown backstory who can't focus his xp onto one subject, but starting her as demolitionist.
150xp characters are competent, but in the grand scale of things they suck. Now in season 4 the group is more like 1500xp. They have grown, their starting mentor character in form of Ahsoka has left the game, they are on their own and reach the power levels of their mentors, they earned reputation, lead their own minion groups and have access to all those nice rebel alliance resources, etc

It not like they are good at everything, it like they are getting better and better from season to season. Kanan going from padawan to full jedi knight, Ezra starting out as fresh padawan, becoming a young jedi knight of his own. etc

Hera just spend enough XP on her pilot skill, she ain't Fenn Rau still, but she is getting close and she might have overtaken him on leadership skills. Something which is was pretty barebones at the beginning as well. Her brawl still sucks

@SEApocalypse I see your comparison and I do agree to a point. The skills obviously get better as the progress, and the season 2-3 jump for Ezra is incredibly evident of this. It seems if you got enough of a connection to the force in star wars that you will be adept with a light saber pretty quickly. However, Sabine is "closed off" from the force according to Kanan and she went from training and getting steam rolled to challenging a trained warrior and defeating him in what looked like a pretty fair fight in a short amount of time. While I loved that arc, I do think how fast her skills developed there are a little funky.

I wasn't saying that the characters didn't develop. Hera I think is the weakest in development so far... Even Zeb seems to have developed more compassion and intelligence. Now more of the big brother that you can count on than the one who will charge in head first.

However, I'd argue that Kanan has more development than anyone. Yes, we did get the Ezra, Sabine, and now Hera getting some solid attention, but Kanan's story is the one that has developed the most. He has undergone the most changes from the start to where he is now. He started as a cowboy, turned into a mentor, struggled with his own beliefs in the force, really mellowed out after he got his face slashed. His internal struggle, in concept, is just as powerful as Ezra and Sabines have been, but I think the writing around how he has dealt and overcome that internal struggle, and how he still deals with it is generally a lot better and dare I say realistic.

1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

Oh why did I click on it. Oh why

I told you not to! When do I put anything in spoilers? If I do it's a very big deal.

Finished it, btw. Great campaign, a solid 9.5/10. I do not give such a rating lightly lemme tell ya, best we've had in a decade if not longer.

1 hour ago, HaranHaste said:

This is not a Rebels spoiler, this is a Battlefront spoiler. please mark it so.

Said it was a huge spoiler. I am not to blame. If I said it was a Battlefront spoiler that would have given it away on the outset. I left it vague. It has never been and never will be somebody else's responsibility to stop you from clicking on a spoiler.

5 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I told you not to! When do I put anything in spoilers? If I do it's a very big deal.

Finished it, btw. Great campaign, a solid 9.5/10. I do not give such a rating lightly lemme tell ya, best we've had in a decade if not longer.

Said it was a huge spoiler. I am not to blame. If I said it was a Battlefront spoiler that would have given it away on the outset. I left it vague. It has never been and never will be somebody else's responsibility to stop you from clicking on a spoiler.

5 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Well. I mean.

So maybe I'm a little sympathetic.

I honestly wish now that there wasn't a Hera name drop or the Battle of Endor short out there now. Hera being captured could add a lot of suspense to the end of the series except we now know that she survives. Wouldn't that be a hit in the heartstrings if Thrawn offed her in order to throw the other Spectres off their game?

I mean one would think that one of the biggest tactical geniuses in the galaxy would realize the whole 'keep the prisoner alive so the good guys can rescue her' trope is something that would be in his best interest to avoid.

So Filoni potentially revealed a tidbit on the fate of a certain blue man.

I'd like to think Thrawn had a hand in The First Order, but Battlefront II 2 has more or less taught me that The First Order is very much an evolution and reconstruction of the vitriolic Empire post-RoTJ/Endor. So I don't think Thrawn would have any part in that.

Especially have any hand in such... Egregious, unnecessary superweapons. I think Operation Cinder would disgust him. Lothal's occupation and repurposing is different. It's bad, it's very bad, but Cinder is essentially wilful and wanton slaughter of one's own people. Countless pieces of art and history could easily be lost. Vardos, Theed, imagine if the ladder was something Thrawn had the misfortune of attending.

If Vardos was something he was directed to do. I think he'd hate it.

7 hours ago, HaranHaste said:

This is not a Rebels spoiler, this is a Battlefront spoiler. please mark it so.

The new Battlefront has a plot?! I may have to look into getting it!

5 hours ago, flyboymb said:

I mean one would think that one of the biggest tactical geniuses in the galaxy would realize the whole 'keep the prisoner alive so the good guys can rescue her' trope is something that would be in his best interest to avoid.

Sounds like Thrawn needs to read the Evil Overlord List !

6 hours ago, flyboymb said:

I honestly wish now that there wasn't a Hera name drop or the Battle of Endor short out there now. Hera being captured could add a lot of suspense to the end of the series except we now know that she survives. Wouldn't that be a hit in the heartstrings if Thrawn offed her in order to throw the other Spectres off their game?

Eh...Hera was name-dropped in Rogue One . She was paged over the intercom at Yavin 4 during the movie. So 'that she survives the Rebels TV series' has been known for some time. (As does Chopper and the Ghost - also all in the RotJ short, which may or may not be a coincidence)

5 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Eh...Hera was name-dropped in Rogue One . She was paged over the intercom at Yavin 4 during the movie. So 'that she survives the Rebels TV series' has been known for some time. (As does Chopper and the Ghost - also all in the RotJ short, which may or may not be a coincidence)

So either she survived, or else the Rebels are really bad at Final Roll Call.

17 hours ago, Odanan said:

"Barrel Roll"

You keep using that word...

Anyway, whatever. Give the X-Wing a barrel roll (via title), but before adding yet another Hera in this green X-Wing, do justice to the true heroes .

Stop using that blasted graphic and quit trying to apply real world physics to my magic space wizards and space ships that go pew pew pew. Barrel roll in Star Wars is not the same as real life. Get over it.

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

The new Battlefront has a plot?! I may have to look into getting it!

Yeah dude, their campaign is one of the most advertised things, the only other heavily advertised bit being the whole multi-era multiplayer thing.

12 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Stop using that blasted graphic and quit trying to apply real world physics to my magic space wizards and space ships that go pew pew pew. Barrel roll in Star Wars is not the same as real life. Get over it.

Uh, for what it's worth? Given you roll a bit to the side and forward in XWMG (or backwards, go freaking figure, shouldn't even be a thing if you ask me it's just stupid.) you are very much doing an actual barrel roll.

7 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I told you not to! When do I put anything in spoilers? If I do it's a very big deal.

Finished it, btw. Great campaign, a solid 9.5/10. I do not give such a rating lightly lemme tell ya, best we've had in a decade if not longer.

Said it was a huge spoiler. I am not to blame. If I said it was a Battlefront spoiler that would have given it away on the outset. I left it vague. It has never been and never will be somebody else's responsibility to stop you from clicking on a spoiler.

So wait.

Were there any missions inside the Raider? Like the Tantive 4 from BF2? (The real BF2.)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefront/images/1/15/2.jpg

11 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Uh, for what it's worth? Given you roll a bit to the side and forward in XWMG (or backwards, go freaking figure, shouldn't even be a thing if you ask me it's just stupid.) you are very much doing an actual barrel roll.

FWIW, in the old LucasArts games, the maneuver commonly (today) identified as a 'barrel roll' (pull back on the elevators while twisting the aileron+rudder into a turn) was described as a 'Wotan weave'.

39 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Yeah dude, their campaign is one of the most advertised things, the only other heavily advertised bit being the whole multi-era multiplayer thing.

Uh, for what it's worth? Given you roll a bit to the side and forward in XWMG (or backwards, go freaking figure, shouldn't even be a thing if you ask me it's just stupid.) you are very much doing an actual barrel roll.

You move a lot to the side and a tiny bit forward. After a barrel roll you shouldn't move to the side. EDIT or maybe a bit, but definitely not THAT much.

39 minutes ago, OneKelvin said:

So wait.

Were there any missions inside the Raider? Like the Tantive 4 from BF2? (The real BF2.)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefront/images/1/15/2.jpg

No... Not really sadly. We only ever see a bit of the hangar and the bridge. Also, just saying, calling shenanigans on TIEs fitting in a Raider. X-Wings I believe. TIE Advanced, I believe. But not TIEs.

9 minutes ago, eMeM said:

You move a lot to the side and a tiny bit forward. After a barrel roll you shouldn't move to the side. EDIT or maybe a bit, but definitely not THAT much.

Well whatever we're doing, it's what Anakin unnecessarily did in RoTS around Obi-Wan's ship.

9 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Said it was a huge spoiler. I am not to blame. If I said it was a Battlefront spoiler that would have given it away on the outset. I left it vague. It has never been and never will be somebody else's responsibility to stop you from clicking on a spoiler.

Yeah, double down instead of taking 5 seconds to fix it. That's endearing...

You labeled something a "huge spoiler" in the Rebels thread. The natural response to that for most people is to go "Well, I'm all caught up on Rebels atm, so whatever that spoiler is, I've already seen it, so it's safe for me to click it!"

Then it's a spoiler for something else entirely that they may not have already experienced.

6 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Yeah dude, their campaign is one of the most advertised things, the only other heavily advertised bit being the whole multi-era multiplayer thing.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen a single ad for the game. I heard about it on these forums, and pretty much just assumed it would be just like the previous iterations only shinier and newer.

But if it has a decent campaign, I may have to look at getting it once it comes down in price!