Meh, "chosen one" prophecy tropes were trite in 1977. They've only gotten more so since.

Delete all references to prophecies and chosen ones and the Star Wars story will be improved IMO.

31 minutes ago, OneKelvin said:

That's why Obi-wan is sitting in the desert, and that's why he has no time for upstart Jedi and their rebel friends. He knows better than any rebel could ever know or be convinced that the entire war hinges on whether or not a little sandy-haired kid on a third-world planet survives the next day of his life.

While I'm pretty sure your assessment is pretty spot on regarding the author's intentions, I find this part rather funny. Almost everything that lead to the current situation is due to the Jedi council and especially Yoda thinking they knew better than anyone else. You'd think the almost complete annihilation of their order would cure them of overconfidence and blind trust in the Force. Especially for Obi-wan, putting all his hopes in another chosen one is probably not the best idea given how well that worked out last time.

Loved that episode.

8 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

While I'm pretty sure your assessment is pretty spot on regarding the author's intentions, I find this part rather funny. Almost everything that lead to the current situation is due to the Jedi council and especially Yoda thinking they knew better than anyone else. You'd think the almost complete annihilation of their order would cure them of overconfidence and blind trust in the Force. Especially for Obi-wan, putting all his hopes in another chosen one is probably not the best idea given how well that worked out last time.

Without the Jedi Sidious wouldn't have to invent a convoluted plan to take over the Republic.

10 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

While I'm pretty sure your assessment is pretty spot on regarding the author's intentions, I find this part rather funny. Almost everything that lead to the current situation is due to the Jedi council and especially Yoda thinking they knew better than anyone else. You'd think the almost complete annihilation of their order would cure them of overconfidence and blind trust in the Force. Especially for Obi-wan, putting all his hopes in another chosen one is probably not the best idea given how well that worked out last time.

The Jedi of the prequels never really embraced the force except for using it as a tool to enact their own machinations. If the Jedi really embraced the force they would hardly EVER use lightsabers, and battles would be a clash of force powers, except in the prequels they almost constantly only use lightsabers.

5 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Without the Jedi Sidious wouldn't have to invent a convoluted plan to take over the Republic.

I disagree. He still needed to engineer a crisis bad enough for the Senate to accept him as Emperor.

1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

While I'm pretty sure your assessment is pretty spot on regarding the author's intentions, I find this part rather funny. Almost everything that lead to the current situation is due to the Jedi council and especially Yoda thinking they knew better than anyone else. You'd think the almost complete annihilation of their order would cure them of overconfidence and blind trust in the Force. Especially for Obi-wan, putting all his hopes in another chosen one is probably not the best idea given how well that worked out last time.

Good point, and yet they didn't trust in the force.

The masters were blinded to it by just one Sith, and so they put their trust in clones and an army, they put their trust in the republic to back them up, and they put their trust in their temple and their ships and their lightsabers. All of those things betrayed them, and at the end, if they had taken Anakin with them to the final confrontation then Palpatine may have been destroyed. But they didn't think they needed the chosen one to win the war, and so their victory was stolen from them at the last minute by one man.

Chosen ones aren't chosen for the light or the dark: they're just chosen by the force as a whole. They have personalities and motivations and can be convinced to follow either side, it's just that their actions have the weight of destiny behind them. The Jedi thought they had the chosen one in the bag or didn't need him to win the war and so their victory was undone. Anakin did give them many victories but they neglected him and his personal life when they thought it wouldn't matter.

Obi-wan knows that it's useless to ignore the force, so he's trying to correct the last mistake. The mistake that undid them was not following the force, it was presuming that they could succeed without it. The Jedi dropped the ball and someone else picked it up, so now Obi is practicing. He's going to make sure that this chosen one doesn't turn out like the last because there will always be chosen ones. All you can do is make sure they're on your side.

11 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Jedi council and especially Yoda thinking they knew better than anyone else. You'd think the almost complete annihilation of their order would cure them of overconfidence and blind trust in the Force. Especially for Obi-wan, putting all his hopes in another chosen one is probably not the best idea given how well that worked out last time.

I think you miss a very important point of Obi-wan's character. This isn't simply blind trust in the force (remember what he tells Ezra), he knows the force is nebulous at best. This is about love and loyalty. He is loyal to his friends. Loyal to Qui-gon who believed fiercely in the prophecy. Loyal to Annakin and Padme, whose child he now protects. And loyal to the force, which he waits to be sure can be passed down to another, hopefully better, generation of Jedi.

18 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

While I'm pretty sure your assessment is pretty spot on regarding the author's intentions, I find this part rather funny. Almost everything that lead to the current situation is due to the Jedi council and especially Yoda thinking they knew better than anyone else. You'd think the almost complete annihilation of their order would cure them of overconfidence and blind trust in the Force. Especially for Obi-wan, putting all his hopes in another chosen one is probably not the best idea given how well that worked out last time.

I think the change in Obi-wan from the prequels to the OT is because of his understanding of the prophecy. He didn't understand what happened to Anikin in Revenge of the Sith. In this episode he talks about perspective and continues to in the OT. He realizes that Anikin did bring balance to the force by eliminating the Jedi. I think it was all these years that finally made Obi-wan balanced with the force.

Loved the way Maul went out. I love how he says "He will avenge us ." (paraphrased). Also, during the episode, I had a feeling that the voice actor for Ben Kenobi was the same as Tarkin. When they mentioned it in the Recon episode, I was like "I KNEW IT!" I also like how Ezra has nothing to do with the final confrontation. This was Obi-wan and Mauls episode.

2 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

Loved the way Maul went out. I love how he says "He will avenge us ." (paraphrased). Also, during the episode, I had a feeling that the voice actor for Ben Kenobi was the same as Tarkin. When they mentioned it in the Recon episode, I was like "I KNEW IT!" I also like how Ezra has nothing to do with the final confrontation. This was Obi-wan and Mauls episode.

He also voiced Admiral Raddus in Rogue One.

You damned guys with your good eyes got me on the edge of my seat praying that Thrawn is not dying in the finale.

I was so sure he wouldn't, but now I'm not!

30 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I disagree. He still needed to engineer a crisis bad enough for the Senate to accept him as Emperor.

He wouldn't have to integrate killing every single Jedi into it.

22 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

Loved the way Maul went out. I love how he says "He will avenge us ." (paraphrased). Also, during the episode, I had a feeling that the voice actor for Ben Kenobi was the same as Tarkin. When they mentioned it in the Recon episode, I was like "I KNEW IT!" I also like how Ezra has nothing to do with the final confrontation. This was Obi-wan and Mauls episode.

It was Ezra's episode. It just wasn't his battle, and Obi-Wan finally helped him see that. Ezra's whole arc this season has dealt with him facing his Dark Side temptations, which were embodied by Maul. Those inclinations finally pushed him and Chopper to the point of disaster. We'll see how it plays out, but I feel like a lot of this season was about him finally putting those things behind him.

Little things I loved:

- Maul attempted to use the same move on Obi-Wan that he killed Qui-Gon with. This time, Obi-Wan was prepared for it.

- During their conversation, Ezra only refers to him as "Master Kenobi," and Maul doesn't refer to Kenobi by name at all during their battle. Thus, "Obi-Wan" remains a name that he hasn't heard for a long time, and won't hear again until Luke finds him.

13 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

- During their conversation, Ezra only refers to him as "Master Kenobi," and Maul doesn't refer to Kenobi by name at all during their battle. Thus, "Obi-Wan" remains a name that he hasn't heard for a long time, and won't hear again until Luke finds him.

It's the little things in life that get me.

the latest episode of Rebels just goes to show what makes a lightsaber fight intense is what's going on between the characters not what's going on with the sabers.

Anyone found a decent gif of that WHOLE fight?

4 hours ago, eMeM said:

He wouldn't have to integrate killing every single Jedi into it.

Obviously, since in this scenario there would be no Jedi. He would still need a group inside the Republic that would be threatening enough to make his ascension to power seem necessary.

5 hours ago, OneKelvin said:

Without Luke the Death Star trench run fails and the Rebels are destroyed, the Cloud City ambush goes off without a hitch and the Rebels are incarcerated, and nobody saves Han or the Princess or confronts Vader and the Emperor the end. Nobody levitates C3P0, the Rebels get eaten by Ewoks, and the rebel fleet is crushed at Endor.

This is the dumbest argument ever.

Without every single action every protagonist character takes, the series wouldn't have happened the way it does. Without Han, the Death Star trench run fails and the Rebels are destroyed. If Leia doesn't shoot out a sewer grate, they all die on the Death Star. Without Chewie swinging onto an AT-ST, they don't destroy the shield of second Death Star.

By this dumb logic, every character is "the keystone" to the Emperor's defeat. Because if you take out any one of those characters, the Empire would have won. That's not a freaking prophecy, that's just how basic stories work. Hell, Artoo saves the Rebellion more times than Luke does.

Also, ultimately, Luke wasn't "the chosen one". It was Anakin all along, just like they originally thought. Vader is the one that destroys Palpatine, and himself in the process. He puts and end to the Sith and brings balance to the Force. It's not even like Luke is the one that changes Vader. He doesn't really DO anything beyond existing. Vader barely knows Luke. He turns against Palpatine based on the IDEA of saving his son. Not because his son is someone he actually knows and cares about.

Well.

Jeez.

I see what you're getting at; and yes each character does their own bit of saving. I still think that it's harder to replace Vader's son than it is to replace the princess of a blown-up planet or a cocky freighter captain.

But without Obi-wan Anakin gets eaten by gundarks, without Snips he gets blasted by droids, and without Padme he doesn't get tempted by Palpatine. Come to think of it, without Leia, Luke never gets into danger on the Death Star in the first place because there's no-one to save, and without Han, Leia never gets captured trying to rescue him. Without Han and Leia there is no diversion to Cloud City to save them and Luke is still out of danger; he even has time to finish his training. And as a single child the end fight with the Emperor goes differently since Vader doesn't sense any other offspring but Luke.

Or does someone replace Padme? Would another freighter captain have similar skills as Han? Would Senator Organ be delivering messages to Obi-wan instead? If it was the Senator instead of Leia might he end up as rancor food instead of chained to the lounge bed?

These theories go deep and they do little to dissuade me of the idea that Luke is one of the more force-favored pieces in this puzzle and that Obi-wan knows it and is protecting him for that reason. Obi doesn't even need to know all of the connections between the dots, all he needs to know is that Anakin messed the galaxy up and the only people he knows of with a chance of unmessing are Luke and Leia. Leia is living the royal life out on Alderaan, so he's left with Luke.

The "Quote" and "Edit" buttons are very close together.

Or - and here's a thought - bringing balance to the Force hasn't happened as of The Force Awakens , and it's still Luke's destiny.

Think about it. Luke being the last Jedi Knight didn't restore balance (obvious, Jedi=1 Sith=0 isn't balanced), and neither did whatever organization that he tried to create between RotJ and TFA. Snoke's obviously Dark Side - no balance there.

What needs to exist is an organization that balances the Light and Dark together, and recognizes both as vital to the universe, instead of two factions at each other's throats. Grey Jedi, if you will.

Or balance won't be achieved until all Force users are gone. 0=0.

or conflict is the natural order, and the Force was unbalanced for a 1,000 years while the Jedi brought peace to it, and now, the Empire and the New Order and Palpatine, Vader, and Snoke are it's way of making up for lost times.

1 minute ago, DarthEnderX said:

Or balance won't be achieved until all Force users are gone. 0=0.