Midichlorians got told to sod off completely.

How do you figure this? There was no mention of force-attuned micro organisms anywhere in the episode. Nothing to support or discredit midichlorians. I don't understand the midichlorian hate some fans have. One of the major themes developed into Star Wars is the multi-faceted nature of The Force.

It's because it turns the force into something scientific and knowable as opposed to the far more mystical, mysteriousness of it in the OT.

Midichlorians got told to sod off completely.

How do you figure this? There was no mention of force-attuned micro organisms anywhere in the episode. Nothing to support or discredit midichlorians. I don't understand the midichlorian hate some fans have. One of the major themes developed into Star Wars is the multi-faceted nature of The Force.

It's because it turns the force into something scientific and knowable as opposed to the far more mystical, mysteriousness of it in the OT.

Midichlorians are a stupid lazy post-hoc story telling crutch Lucas jammed in to create some stupid immaculate conception for Vader, and opportunity for crappy dialogue like "his midichlorians are off the charts!"

They are also completely, undeniably 100%

Dude. That was a great episode. For a lot of reasons! But you know what I love?

Midichlorians got told to sod off completely. The force is not for just a few. It's for everyone. Perhaps in their own particular ways and some more than others. But at this point we have no reason to believe that there's somebody in the galaxy who can't learn to use the force, so long as they're open to it and themselves.

That's what Midichlorians were supposed to do, life is impossible without them, thus every single living thing has at least some connection to the force. That's what Lucas himself said, but the phrasing in the movies didn't make it out to be as it was intended.

So yeah, anyone can use the force, but not just anyone can be a Jedi. It's like anyone can be physically fit if they workout regularly, but unless you have the right genes and work towards it from childhood it's unlikely that just anyone can decide to become an Olympian.

It supports my theory that Han Solo was definitely an unwitting force user.

Midichlorians got told to sod off completely.

How do you figure this? There was no mention of force-attuned micro organisms anywhere in the episode. Nothing to support or discredit midichlorians. I don't understand the midichlorian hate some fans have. One of the major themes developed into Star Wars is the multi-faceted nature of The Force.

"Congratulations, you have space disease so that means you can be a space wizard!" is basically how midichlorians come off. As stated by Kelvin here, that isn't what it is. But that's what it's understood as, because it's extremely, extremely poorly explained.

Just to standardize the terminology as long as we're going to be talking about melee combat, I'm going to put what means what below for terms that are often interchanged because there seems to be no real Oxford-type ruling on what is what.

This doesn't mean that I think what <insertpersonhere> has been using is wrong, I'm just, y'know, trying to facilitate understanding in the interest of getting everyone on the same track.

Anyhoo.

Block - An interaction between two weapons wherein one intersects and absorbs completely the forward momentum of another. "I blocked his swing with my shield."

Lunge - To step suddenly toward your opponent, typically to extend the length of a thrust.

Parry - An interaction between two weapons wherein one is used to deflect/redirect, but not stop, the the movement of another; the idea being that the recovery from a swing takes longer if the opponent has to stop it themselves. "I parried under his swing and it passed over my head."

Riposte - An attack that takes place after a parry and sometimes a block, taking advantage of the fact that the opponent's weapon is at the end of an attack. "He swung high right, I parried high right and riposted high left at his off-arm."

Guard - The section of the hilt that protects the hand and/ or a fighting stance. I'd type descriptions but when this fellow has such nice pictures of the various guards why bother? http://www.chivalrynow.net/sword/guards.htm

On (your) Guard - To assume any given guard in preparation for a fight. Can be issued as a challenge to the effect of "get ready!".

So the interaction between blades tends to turn Parries into Blocks, whether intended or otherwise.

Dude. That was a great episode. For a lot of reasons! But you know what I love?

Midichlorians got told to sod off completely. The force is not for just a few. It's for everyone. Perhaps in their own particular ways and some more than others. But at this point we have no reason to believe that there's somebody in the galaxy who can't learn to use the force, so long as they're open to it and themselves.

That's what Midichlorians were supposed to do, life is impossible without them, thus every single living thing has at least some connection to the force. That's what Lucas himself said, but the phrasing in the movies didn't make it out to be as it was intended.

So yeah, anyone can use the force, but not just anyone can be a Jedi. It's like anyone can be physically fit if they workout regularly, but unless you have the right genes and work towards it from childhood it's unlikely that just anyone can decide to become an Olympian.

It supports my theory that Han Solo was definitely an unwitting force user.

Midichlorians got told to sod off completely.

How do you figure this? There was no mention of force-attuned micro organisms anywhere in the episode. Nothing to support or discredit midichlorians. I don't understand the midichlorian hate some fans have. One of the major themes developed into Star Wars is the multi-faceted nature of The Force.

"Congratulations, you have space disease so that means you can be a space wizard!" is basically how midichlorians come off. As stated by Kelvin here, that isn't what it is. But that's what it's understood as, because it's extremely, extremely poorly explained.

No, it's literally stated that all living things have midichlorians in their cells. Higher midichlorian count - higher force potential, it's really, really simple.

It's also really dumb.

That was a good episode.

I liked the episode overall, but I was kinda put off by Kanan. He was a little hard on Sabine for no apparent reason. She is a kid, albeit a highly trained and capable rebel fighter, but still just a kid who has this incredible pressure on her to be this leader of men and due to the fact that she could rally a highly trained army, the potential savior of the Phoenix squad rebel group, if not the entire rebel alliance. I really think that Kanan should have taken a gentler approach. Hera was a bit pushy as well. She kinda pulled rank and ordered Sabine to get the Mandos for the Rebellion. Kanan and Hera have been father and mother to the Ghost crew, even referring to themselves in those terms, but suddenly in this episode, Sabine is the misbehaving step child that just needs to get their act together. They both, especially Kanan, were somewhat out of character, and definitely out of line.

Midichlorians got told to sod off completely.

How do you figure this? There was no mention of force-attuned micro organisms anywhere in the episode. Nothing to support or discredit midichlorians. I don't understand the midichlorian hate some fans have. One of the major themes developed into Star Wars is the multi-faceted nature of The Force.

It's because it turns the force into something scientific and knowable as opposed to the far more mystical, mysteriousness of it in the OT.

I never thought I'd see the day where I actually saw somebody say, "No, Midichlorians aren't bad!"

I never thought I'd see the day where I actually saw somebody say, "No, Midichlorians aren't bad!"

I never understood why this is such a big deal to some people. Yes, their introduction in TPM is rather lackluster, but then again, many things in TPM were. Midichlorians are really just another way of determining Anakin's potential. It's the same as Qui Gon stating that he can feel Anakin is strong with the force, it's just a more scientific approach. I don't see what's so inherently terrible about them. The fact that some people are stronger in the force than others is an established fact.

I never thought I'd see the day where I actually saw somebody say, "No, Midichlorians aren't bad!"

I never understood why this is such a big deal to some people. Yes, their introduction in TPM is rather lackluster, but then again, many things in TPM were. Midichlorians are really just another way of determining Anakin's potential. It's the same as Qui Gon stating that he can feel Anakin is strong with the force, it's just a more scientific approach. I don't see what's so inherently terrible about them. The fact that some people are stronger in the force than others is an established fact.

I think it's the mysticism. People understand that some are better with the force than others and that the force grants abilities and all that, but for some people it's more fun if it's random and magical than if it's governed by cold scientific fact.

But even magic is a science of it's own. Unless you live in an El-goonish Shive universe where magic is semi-sentient and actively resists categorization granting abilities like favors (like a deity), then you do often end up with scientific magic. Hogwarts has textbooks on the stuff; to them it's just exploiting little-known properties and energies that exist in the natural world ie. science. I remember a particular series where the magic was called pyramy because calling it "magic" would imply that it was unknown or unpredictable where in reality it was almost like computer programming and you could learn it from books. But anyway.

In SW they did the same thing, the Jedi had libraries and understood the magic down to its microscopic components. It's not like you couldn't identify muggles with a blood test, we just sometimes prefer the mystery. Now that the purge has put us back in the dark ages with regards to force knowledge we're back to feeling our way through training and using weed and leeches to see if one can be a Jedi; it's much more mystical again, and many people like that feeling.

But nothing has really changed. It's kinda like we forgot that germs cause disease so we're back to blaming curses and witches.

Edit.

Perhaps there's a religious undertone? Maybe it's that people want to believe in the force and that you just can't believe in something you can actually see/quantify. I mean, I've been a science-loving God-fearing guy my whole life so I don't really see the clash; but maybe some people feel you have to choose? It can be supernatural or scientific not both?

This is all guesswork and theory on my part by the way. I'm kinda interested in an explanation from a flat-galaxy Midichlorian-disbeliever myself.

I never thought I'd see the day where I actually saw somebody say, "No, Midichlorians aren't bad!"

If a person requires these microscopic organisms to use the Force, than it makes sense for an animal to be evolved to track those organisms, and another organism to be evolved to suppress them. At least, makes more sense than making them wizard animals.

I never understood why this is such a big deal to some people. Yes, their introduction in TPM is rather lackluster, but then again, many things in TPM were.

"Well, it was introduced in a movie with LOTS of *****y things, so that makes it not so bad!"

Midichlorians are really just another way of determining Anakin's potential. It's the same as Qui Gon stating that he can feel Anakin is strong with the force, it's just a more scientific approach. I don't see what's so inherently terrible about them. The fact that some people are stronger in the force than others is an established fact.

But the fact that they are intelligent and Force users can only sense the Force BECAUSE of them and they are required to use the Force really takes a **** on the mythology of the Force as a mystical energy.

I liked the episode overall, but I was kinda put off by Kanan. He was a little hard on Sabine for no apparent reason. She is a kid, albeit a highly trained and capable rebel fighter, but still just a kid who has this incredible pressure on her to be this leader of men and due to the fact that she could rally a highly trained army, the potential savior of the Phoenix squad rebel group, if not the entire rebel alliance. I really think that Kanan should have taken a gentler approach. Hera was a bit pushy as well. She kinda pulled rank and ordered Sabine to get the Mandos for the Rebellion. Kanan and Hera have been father and mother to the Ghost crew, even referring to themselves in those terms, but suddenly in this episode, Sabine is the misbehaving step child that just needs to get their act together. They both, especially Kanan, were somewhat out of character, and definitely out of line.

I don't think it was out of character for Kanan. He's not a good teacher, so when his original method goes days without having effect he gets upset and tries to force his method rather than trying something else. We've seen him do this multiple times on smaller scales before being told he's being an idiot and do it that other way.

Perhaps there's a religious undertone? Maybe it's that people want to believe in the force and that you just can't believe in something you can actually see/quantify. I mean, I've been a science-loving God-fearing guy my whole life so I don't really see the clash; but maybe some people feel you have to choose? It can be supernatural or scientific not both?

The Force is decidedly NOT. The morality of the user has DRASTIC effects on how the Force manifests itself. It's non-scientific on a fundamental level.

Good and evil are philosophical and subjective concepts, but the Force responds along the lines of these concepts. You can't scientifically measure good and evil, so you shouldn't be able to scientifically measure the Force.

Perhaps there's a religious undertone? Maybe it's that people want to believe in the force and that you just can't believe in something you can actually see/quantify. I mean, I've been a science-loving God-fearing guy my whole life so I don't really see the clash; but maybe some people feel you have to choose? It can be supernatural or scientific not both?

Here's the thing though, if you want to dissect magic scientifically, that's one thing. But pure science is inherently amoral.

The Force is decidedly NOT. The morality of the user has DRASTIC effects on how the Force manifests itself. It's non-scientific on a fundamental level.

Good and evil are philosophical and subjective concepts, but the Force responds along the lines of these concepts. You can't scientifically measure good and evil, so you shouldn't be able to scientifically measure the Force.

You could look at the force as the raw input and the light/dark side approaches as different catalysts that lead to different manifestations.

As for the point I made about the general quality of TPM: Just because the movie did it badly, that doesn't mean the concept itself is necessarily bad.

To use the example of another pulpy series Mr Lucas worked on which paired gun toting adventure heroes with magic and mystiscism... How would we have felt if in young Indiana Jones they had revealed that all of the magical and mystical elements we saw through the entire franchise were because there are tiny microbes in people's blood, and these tiny lifeforms just decided in Raiders of the Lost Arc that the Nazis were evil so melted them? Something's are better left unexplained. The precise nature of the force was always going to to be one of them. In the pre-prequel EU there was a lot of philosophising about the nature of the force, and how different cultures saw the force in different ways. To some it has will, to others it is luck etc etc... Then TPM (The Painful Memories) made it scientifically quantifiable and measurable by absolutely anyone with a 30 second test. Plus side that should make the inquisitors jobs easier, just start doing blood tests in schools as part of a 'health drive'.

To use the example of another pulpy series Mr Lucas worked on which paired gun toting adventure heroes with magic and mystiscism... How would we have felt if in young Indiana Jones they had revealed that all of the magical and mystical elements we saw through the entire franchise were because there are tiny microbes in people's blood, and these tiny lifeforms just decided in Raiders of the Lost Arc that the Nazis were evil so melted them? Something's are better left unexplained. The precise nature of the force was always going to to be one of them. In the pre-prequel EU there was a lot of philosophising about the nature of the force, and how different cultures saw the force in different ways. To some it has will, to others it is luck etc etc... Then TPM (The Painful Memories) made it scientifically quantifiable and measurable by absolutely anyone with a 30 second test. Plus side that should make the inquisitors jobs easier, just start doing blood tests in schools as part of a 'health drive'.

Midichlorians don't explain the will of the force or how it works. They are just an indicator of force-potential in any given person.

I'm curious the ages of folks involved in this midichlorian debate... Not asking anyone to share, but I wonder if the poor souls who grew up with the prequels and never knew Star Wars without them would be more willing to accept midichlorians.

Kanan did come off as a little out of character with his harshness towards Sabine but it sorta made the end of the episode feel a bit more "earned." This episode has made me much more enthusiastic about the remainder of this series. I hope they continue to take advantage of the fact that we have so many established personalities and keep pushing those characters into new emotional territory.

Being a Mandalorian Sabine was probably raised to not show her feelings. Kanan had to be rough with her to crack that protective shell.

I liked the episode overall, but I was kinda put off by Kanan. He was a little hard on Sabine for no apparent reason.

I think Kanan and Hera have the best understanding of what the Rebellion means and what is at stake. This is not about their own personal struggles or even just the Lothal sector. The involvement of the Mandalorians could be a major turning point in the fight against the Empire.

It is a big deal with so much hanging on it and they feel the pressure. So like any flawed and imperfect people (i.e. anyone ), they transmit that pressure to Sabine. Part stress, part frustration, they are going hard on her because they are very much aware of what screwing up will mean.

The biggest problem I have with midichlorians being quantifiable in a bloodstream is in a world of cloning, bio-engineering, and other complicated bio-sciece, they should be able to grow cultures of the stuff in labs and infuse anyone with as much force power as they have credits to afford.

Keep it mystical. Keep it away from the scientists. (I made a joke x-wing upgrade midichlorian milkshake a while back based on the idea that anyone could now be force buffed.)

Kanan was believable, including his unwillingness to accept Hera's suggestion multiple times. I've been there wanting my way to work even when it isn't going to.

Well Hera's assumption that Sabine's internal suffering "hurts far worse then anything that lightsaber can do"is hilarious. I'm fairly certain losing all your limbs is maybe far worse. You have external suffering on top of all the internal.

And a little more of the Star Wars universe dies, lol. A pilot lectures a Jedi on how to train somebody with a lightsaber, and an angry teenage girl possesses the skills and reflexes to out-duel a trained and experienced Jedi because she is angry.

http://www.starwars.com/news/so-what-the-heck-are-midi-chlorians

I know this won't put the Midi-chlorian issue to bed. It's a crummy article, it predates the Story Group, but it contains several quotes from George Lucas on the subject. Not attacking or defending the concept; just putting more information out there.