Thanks. I had no idea that the Clone Wars got a theatrical release. Makes sense now.

Don't get too excited for it.

Clone Wars is mostly divided into 4 episode story arcs. The "movie" is basically just the first 4 episode arc of the series edited together.

And it's not a good one...

I remember seeing that and then not caring about the series at all later on...didn't help that it was aired with two 10 minute commercial blocks (on 20 minute episodes, who on earth would have thought that was a good idea?!) on a terrible station in Germany, so it went like: "That movie was dumb, but lets look at the series anyways" "Oh, the series is just as dumb and half of it is commercials, screw this for ever". Only later on did I see the essentials when i got back into Star Wars thanks to X-Wing and with the bad opinion I had of the show they blew me away. I think that effect is real for a lot of people which is why the series is held to much higher regard now than when it actually ran.

Watching TCW cartoon is having a detrimental effect on my opinion of Rebels. Clone Wars episodes are so diluted for their child oriented audience that it's unbearable. I'm hating the art style, two-dimensional characters and plot progression, and everyone's obliviousness to everything. Skipping ahead to the much nicer looking later episodes didn't help. The melodrama is painful to watch, especially regarding the Mandalorians and Darth Maul. A train full of juvenile bounty hunters is also ridiculous; who thought that was a good idea?

I switch back to Rebels and I see a double episode with Saw where half the plot points are explained as necessary by self-imposed restrictions instead of anything remotely resembling an organic chain of events. There's still more clone wars imagery than ANH content, and that's frustrating when TCW leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

As I'm writing this, I still feel confident that Rebels is intrinsically superior to TCW, but waiting 1 to 4 weeks for a new episode is my issue. Season 1 was bland but picked up enough to keep me going. Season two had some really stellar episodes (particularly the beginning and end), despite the helicopter lightsabers. Season 3 has been painful to watch, with what seems like tons of pointless filler - not character building. We've had two seasons of that already, and with a blinded Kanan, I actually want character development. Instead of meaningful struggle of a barely-Jedi now crippled while fighting for the morality of his Padawan, we get blunt, externalized conversations with a giant, British, mammoth Yoda. Then, there's the literal TCW finale episode with all of the baggage and low-level excitement of the show it's celebrating.

Maybe if I could watch all of Rebels back to back, like I did the first two seasons, I would be able to dismiss the weak elements and appreciate the strong. Otherwise, I'm left disappointed having waited to see something that feels very clearly targeted to children. Not that children's shows are inherently bad - Lego Freemakers targets a younger audience, but that show very clearly throws in tons of content intended for the the older, die hard Star Wars fanatics. As an adult, I feel like more of an intended audience age group watching Freemakers then I do with Rebels!

I think I'm just going to stop watching Rebels until the season concludes, and then, when binging, I'll be able to enjoy the overarching story while unconsciously dismissing all of the negative elements that bother me now.

TCW didn't really get good until mid 3rd season

I hate the nick-names snips and sky guy but Ahsoka went from some one very annoying to one of my fave charters (in the series that is)

Watching TCW cartoon is having a detrimental effect on my opinion of Rebels. Clone Wars episodes are so diluted for their child oriented audience that it's unbearable. I'm hating the art style, two-dimensional characters and plot progression, and everyone's obliviousness to everything. Skipping ahead to the much nicer looking later episodes didn't help. The melodrama is painful to watch, especially regarding the Mandalorians and Darth Maul. A train full of juvenile bounty hunters is also ridiculous; who thought that was a good idea?

I think I'm just going to stop watching Rebels until the season concludes, and then, when binging, I'll be able to enjoy the overarching story while unconsciously dismissing all of the negative elements that bother me now.

First off if you dislike the Clone Wars the only arc you HAVE to watch is the Yoda one at the end of the series. Those episodes are so lore heavy and deal with the concept of the foundation of the force.

Here's the number one reason I feel (remember, this is my own personal view) Clone Wars is better then Rebels. While often as you said its diluted for the audience the creators still weren't afraid to handle mature content. Clone Troopers are killed left and right, geonosians melted with flamethrowers, or the battle of Kamino where tens of thousands of fetuses were shown getting destroyed and Asaj Ventress kissed a man as she ignited a lightsaber in his belly.

Rebels conversely is a show that barely has any fangs. I made this point on another forum but Rebels has done an awful, awful job establishing a roster of secondary rebel characters. People who speak a line in every other episode that we get to know over the course of a season. People that CAN be potentially killed off in order to create tension. There are too many generic throwaway characters such as so many of the generic Imperial Officers and rebel troopers. You DON'T make all of your secondary characters such as Dodonna, Wedge, and Hobby people we already know survive.

I was just thinking about some thing ....

• that boy is our last hope
• no there is another

I (and guess every one else) assumed Yoda was talking about Liea, but we now know the Yoda and Ezra had contact so that changes my whole take on that part of the movie

There are too many generic throwaway characters such as so many of the generic Imperial Officers and rebel troopers. You DON'T make all of your secondary characters such as Dodonna, Wedge, and Hobby people we already know survive.

Got to agree on certain points there. Especially the lack of minor rebels characters. Every now and then we get a named Awing pilot and I hope they will show up again... And every time they either die within the episode or their existence is forgotten when the credits roll.

Even some of the imperial characters have been forgotten. Is Rudor still alive?

But then I've always been a fan of the ascended extra, and that's always been a sentiment Star Wars has played into. Hell who is the best pilot of the OT? The wingman who barely gets a line outside of combat.

I was just thinking about some thing ....

• that boy is our last hope
• no there is another

I (and guess every one else) assumed Yoda was talking about Liea, but we now know the Yoda and Ezra had contact so that changes my whole take on that part of the movie

That subject has been breached before. I see two big problems with the concept of Ezra as "the other" Yoda mentioned. First, the core Star Wars films are The Skywaker Saga; Leia is the other Skywalker. It would be thematically and contextually inappropriate to retcon Ezra into the Plan-B solution if Luke failed. Second, fan backlash for the first reason stated. It would be disrespectful to generations of fans who believed since RotJ that Leia is the real "last hope" if Luke fails.

There are too many generic throwaway characters such as so many of the generic Imperial Officers and rebel troopers. You DON'T make all of your secondary characters such as Dodonna, Wedge, and Hobby people we already know survive.

You say that, yet pretty much every villain that this show introduced they've killed off. The only ones that are immune so far are the ones that show up in the movies later.

The other problem is we now know at least two of the main characters do survive.

That is true but is the whole gang of Spectres alive and well prior to Scarif or is it just Hera and Chopper left? Do any of them survive the battle? We see them arrive but we don't see them escape. We know that Rebels is due to end around the time of R1/ANH. My guess is the end of Season 5 will show the battle of Scarif from the Ghost's point of view together with some resolution that TCW never got.

I prefer clone wars over rebels, at least so far. But they are both very enjoyable for different reasons.

I do wish rebels had the same budget as clone wars though. The animation on that show was almost movie quality at times.

I prefer clone wars over rebels, at least so far. But they are both very enjoyable for different reasons.

I do wish rebels had the same budget as clone wars though. The animation on that show was almost movie quality at times.

That came withtime though. The first season's animations are pretty awful.

Watching TCW cartoon is having a detrimental effect on my opinion of Rebels. Clone Wars episodes are so diluted for their child oriented audience that it's unbearable. I'm hating the art style, two-dimensional characters and plot progression, and everyone's obliviousness to everything. Skipping ahead to the much nicer looking later episodes didn't help. The melodrama is painful to watch, especially regarding the Mandalorians and Darth Maul. A train full of juvenile bounty hunters is also ridiculous; who thought that was a good idea?

I think I'm just going to stop watching Rebels until the season concludes, and then, when binging, I'll be able to enjoy the overarching story while unconsciously dismissing all of the negative elements that bother me now.

First off if you dislike the Clone Wars the only arc you HAVE to watch is the Yoda one at the end of the series. Those episodes are so lore heavy and deal with the concept of the foundation of the force.

Here's the number one reason I feel (remember, this is my own personal view) Clone Wars is better then Rebels. While often as you said its diluted for the audience the creators still weren't afraid to handle mature content. Clone Troopers are killed left and right, geonosians melted with flamethrowers, or the battle of Kamino where tens of thousands of fetuses were shown getting destroyed and Asaj Ventress kissed a man as she ignited a lightsaber in his belly.

Rebels conversely is a show that barely has any fangs. I made this point on another forum but Rebels has done an awful, awful job establishing a roster of secondary rebel characters. People who speak a line in every other episode that we get to know over the course of a season. People that CAN be potentially killed off in order to create tension. There are too many generic throwaway characters such as so many of the generic Imperial Officers and rebel troopers. You DON'T make all of your secondary characters such as Dodonna, Wedge, and Hobby people we already know survive.

It went "mature" in the most immature way, though. It was shock value for shock value's sake. And then the move to 4 episode blocks for arcs really hurt the show, imo. Being episodic like Rebels isn't a bad thing.

And the final thing is, this is Star Wars. Rebels evokes the feelings of Star Wars in a way Clone Wars never did.

...

It went "mature" in the most immature way, though. It was shock value for shock value's sake. And then the move to 4 episode blocks for arcs really hurt the show, imo. Being episodic like Rebels isn't a bad thing.

And the final thing is, this is Star Wars. Rebels evokes the feelings of Star Wars in a way Clone Wars never did.

The first two seasons of Clone Wars turned me off because I was in my 30's, not 11 years old.

Rebels is far superior IMHO. There were a few weak (childish) episodes in season 1 AND certainly there are a few things that are questionable (helicopter lightsabers) but they tend to be minor.

I also feel the animation is much better and much more cinematic in Rebels than TCW.

All of that said, I do have to set aside some time to watch the last two season of TCW as I'm told it got better, but I'm still avoiding it.

Rebels is not perfect. It's a cartoon on Disney XD, a channel I have zero interest if ALL other programing it carries. But there is something about the various new characters it has introduced tying in with various degrees and timelines with characters we already know.

The first two seasons of Clone Wars turned me off because I was in my 30's, not 11 years old.

I was aproximately 13 (when was TCW released again? Honestly can't remember) and it turned me away

There are great parts to both, but when Vader and the Grand Inquisitor are there... nothing beats that.

Overall Clone Wars seems better, but the shining moments in Rebels are better than the shining moments in Clone Wars.

A twenty minute show such as rebels I think is best suited to mostly two part arcs and occasional one offs. Though it depends on the story they are trying to tell. Last season mostly one offs work. This season two parters may have helped a lot of wpisod was.

Rebels surpassed Clone Wars the moment Thrawn thrawned onto the thrawn.

One thing that diminished my enjoyment of clone wars, and that was entirely my fault, was that I was (and remain) terrible with names. So it actually got me a while to realize that some clones were recurring characters (Rex was easier to identify).

That being said, part of Season 2 of Rebels builds upon the groundwork laid out in the clone wars. From the part where Ahsoka hugged Rex to the end of season 2, none of those elements would have been as powerful to me without the clone wars.

That is one of the reason why let my nephew borrow clone wars first, even though I had Rebels; I want him to get the full experience.

I was just thinking about some thing ....

• that boy is our last hope
• no there is another

I (and guess every one else) assumed Yoda was talking about Liea, but we now know the Yoda and Ezra had contact so that changes my whole take on that part of the movie

That subject has been breached before. I see two big problems with the concept of Ezra as "the other" Yoda mentioned. First, the core Star Wars films are The Skywaker Saga; Leia is the other Skywalker. It would be thematically and contextually inappropriate to retcon Ezra into the Plan-B solution if Luke failed. Second, fan backlash for the first reason stated. It would be disrespectful to generations of fans who believed since RotJ that Leia is the real "last hope" if Luke fails.

Unless...

Ezra is Snoke and they tie it all together across multiple formats (Rebels, Ep 9, comics etc). That would make it really cool! Ezra was plan B and was twisted as they let him go, Luke never knew. I don't think people would mind (although people are very sensitive regarding Leia atm due to Fisher's passing so I don't expect them to accept it now).

There are great parts to both, but when Vader and the Grand Inquisitor are there... nothing beats that.

Overall Clone Wars seems better, but the shining moments in Rebels are better than the shining moments in Clone Wars.

IMO Clone Wars was a sinusoide with good episodes being on a level Rebels will never reach and bad ones being worse than the worst of Rebels.

Rebels is okay but stable, with some gentle hills and lows, but nothing nearly as exreme as four episodes of the ******* D-squad followed by three episodes of the amazing Maul/Mandalore arc.

It made watching TCW weekly more painfull, but now when it is finished it's not a problem because you can just skip the bad episodes.

Im not going to completely bash the Clone Wars as there are many fantastic elements to it. However it destroyed Greivous as a character and that still pisses me off.

I also hate that they changed the Clone and Jedi relationship from the EU and made Order 66 an involuntary thing. In the EU certain Jedi such as Obi Wan and Anakin were decent and kind to their clones however most Jedi werent.The Jedi are neant to be detatched and as a result many made no connection to their clones and considered them as only slightly less expendable then the droids they were fighting.

Finally the Clone Wars tried but couod have done more to portray the Seperatists as merely those legitimitely opposed to the Republic's corruption rather then just "bad guys". The Seperatists had really good reasons to split off and were basically the proto rebels.

What I found cool though is that Rebels fonfirms if the war had not been rigged from the begining the Seperatists would have won the war hy sheer weight of numbers.

Totally agree about Greivous. He was so awesome in tartakovsky's Clone Wars.

I'm sorry, I just can't let this one slide.

"Don't let your pursuit of trinkets cloud your reality. Remember what I taught you general. If you're to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. For if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory, and have your trophy."

That was the advice Dooku gave to Grievous in the old 2D Clone Wars. Sounds an awful lot like the mentality that Grievous had in the 3D Clone Wars, doesn't it? 'If you haven't already won before the battle starts, run away.' Oh, and let's not forget the track record of current canon Grievous: Forced Kenobi to retreat in their first engagement early on in the Clone Wars (During the Destroy Malevolence story arc), casually stomped Ahsoka with a single lightsaber in their first duel, then activated his second lightsaber for sport and forced her into a steady retreat, killed Kit Fisto's apprentice with ease, held his own against Kit Fisto, one of the most skilled and powerful Jedi in the Order (Who, along with Mace Windu, managed to actually hold his own for a moment against Sidious), defeated Eeth Koth, a member of the Jedi Council and also one of the more renowned Jedi swordsmen, held his own against Obi-Wan in their second encounter, and was actually winning until Obi-Wan used the Force, held his own against Adi Gallia, another Jedi Council member, just after the duel with Kenobi, held off Kenobi once more in the following episode and arguably defeated the Jedi (Though he still retreated due to being outnumbered by clones), dueled Kenobi yet again on Kamino, where he was dominating until Kenobi blasted him with a couple Force pushes, defeated and captured Adi Gallia (Most people forget about this one since it happened on the episode focused on C-3PO and R2-D2), held his own against Asajj Ventress, who regularly contested with Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan, and Count Dooku, actually defeated Kenobi in their next duel, defeated Ahsoka Tano in their second duel, after she had grown considerably more skilled, contended with Darth Maul, and defeated Depa Billaba, Mace Windu's apprentice and one of the best duelists of the Jedi Order.

All in all, Grievous has one of the most impressive track records in canon, and even a lot of Legends characters can't match the level of accomplishment that we see from canon Grievous. And that's setting aside all the opening narration, which repeatedly talks about Grievous' path of destruction and many victories that he's winning against the Republic. Even Legends Grievous would have seriously struggled to accomplish some of the things that the canon Grievous does. Defeating Adi Gallia was considered Grievous' greatest accomplishment in Legends, and in The Clone Wars, his victory over her is such a trivial thing that it happens in the background of a droid-centric episode. Grievous in canon defeats more Jedi Counsel-level opponents than his Legends counterpart ever did. Heck, even old Grievous' most well known victory, the one from the 2D show, was due purely to circumstance. The Jedi he beat there were all exhausted, injured, and had no idea what they were up against. Much like Dooku's advice to Grievous would later state in the same 2D show, Grievous' best chance at defeating Jedi would be to only engage them once he'd already won, which is exactly what he did in the episode that introduced him.

So please, stop talking about how great Grievous was in Legends and how The Clone Wars ruined him. Grievous' actions in The Clone Wars are consistent with what we know about his Legends counterpart, and his fighting prowess is arguably superior. The biggest difference between the two is the style of the two different animated shows. One of them was 2D and extremely stylized to the point of absurdity (regardless of how awesome the show's animation was, you can't deny that it was over the top to the extreme), while the 3D show tried to stay more down to earth and realistic, comparable to the action scenes from the movies.

Sorry for the long-winded rant. I'm just sick and tired of people hating on The Clone Wars Grievous for no valid reason. It honestly drives me batty.

Not to mention RotS which also shows Grievous as someone who... ehm... knows when the best decision is to withdraw to prearranged positions.

So let´s return from the ´Clone-Wars-Discussion-Thread´ back to the ´Rebels-Discussion-Thread´

(Though I appreciate the character of General Grievous)

Next episode will be about the Dark Saber and Mandalorians.

What do we expect? Sabine losing it to Saxon? Boba Fett running by and claiming it? Sabine becoming Mandalore?

Thrawn stealing the Dark Saber through a cunning plan and binding all Mandalorians to him?

Im not going to completely bash the Clone Wars as there are many fantastic elements to it. However it destroyed Greivous as a character and that still pisses me off.

I also hate that they changed the Clone and Jedi relationship from the EU and made Order 66 an involuntary thing. In the EU certain Jedi such as Obi Wan and Anakin were decent and kind to their clones however most Jedi werent.The Jedi are neant to be detatched and as a result many made no connection to their clones and considered them as only slightly less expendable then the droids they were fighting.

Finally the Clone Wars tried but couod have done more to portray the Seperatists as merely those legitimitely opposed to the Republic's corruption rather then just "bad guys". The Seperatists had really good reasons to split off and were basically the proto rebels.

What I found cool though is that Rebels fonfirms if the war had not been rigged from the begining the Seperatists would have won the war hy sheer weight of numbers.

Totally agree about Greivous. He was so awesome in tartakovsky's Clone Wars.

I'm sorry, I just can't let this one slide.

Sorry for the long-winded rant. I'm just sick and tired of people hating on The Clone Wars Grievous for no valid reason. It honestly drives me batty.

No worries man. thanks for giving us your thoughts!