Exactly yeah, and while Battlefront is not exactly a great source of info, I would not be against adding a nod to it by throwing Strikers in the assault, nailing down all the snowspeeders once they've been identified as a threat.

So that way the tow cable thing definitely worked but The Empire responded really, really fast with escorting atmospheric craft. Makes sense to me. There's ways to throw this in, add like five seconds of footage if you really want to and not even come close to disrupting the balance that already exists.

Hey guys, I'm just wondering... does the Empire ever win battles?

Like besides Hoth I can't think of a single battle this big scary Empire has actually won. You'll say "Oh, but OneKelvin didn't you see Rouge One ?" ,"The Empire definitely won the ________ above _____. Just look at all those dead rebels!" And I'd say no. No they didn't.

They lost more personnel, they lost more fighters, they lost more ships and crew, and they lost the objective as well. Not to mention the entire friggin _____, but that was just because ______ wanted to test-fire his new toy. Vader did alright, but he didn't make up for the fail. Edit. (He was amazing cinematicly speaking, I mean he didn't make up for the failure of the other Imperials to do their jobs.)

Hoth was cool for the rebels because it showed what they were up against; it showed that they could lose. If the Empire doesn't win something soon it's going to get embarrassing.

Well.

I really can't say you're wrong, man.

Hey guys, I'm just wondering... does the Empire ever win battles?

Short Answer: YES. Read anything in which an Imperial character is the protagonistt.

Long Answer: Other than Hoth, do we ever see the Empire win on film? This question is missing the point. The original Star Wars trilogy isn't about the Empire's greatness; it's about the Rebellion overcoming the Empire's greatness. Naturally, greatness doesn't appear great at the moment of defeat. The average viewer doesn't mind; they accept the narrative telling them the Empire is nigh unstoppable. If accepting that narrative isn't your thing, then there are anti-hero stories in the Star Wars universe. Give the mouse more money and enjoy.

As an aside, losing more men and material does not prevent you from winning.

The Empire basically iises the old Russian Maxim of throwing more and more weight at their target and winning through numbers and attrition.

In every battle we see the Rebel forces get decimated due to not having the numbers or firepower.

In a pure manpower sense you could argue the Empire 'wins' every battle. They do t because the Rebels always find a way to complete their objective against the odds so they are definitely Imperial losses. Even Both, the Rebels successfully evacuate a large amount of the base and the Empire fails to capture anyone of note (so far as the film's depict anyway) due to the Ion Canon.

The Imperial war machine is basically ineffecient, ponderous and poor on an individual basis but unstoppable once it's rolling none the less.

Hubris is the real reason the Rebellion succeeds.

Hey guys, I'm just wondering... does the Empire ever win battles?

Like besides Hoth I can't think of a single battle this big scary Empire has actually won. You'll say "Oh, but OneKelvin didn't you see Rouge One ?" ,"The Empire definitely won the ________ above _____. Just look at all those dead rebels!" And I'd say no. No they didn't.

They lost more personnel, they lost more fighters, they lost more ships and crew, and they lost the objective as well. Not to mention the entire friggin _____, but that was just because ______ wanted to test-fire his new toy. Vader did alright, but he didn't make up for the fail. Edit. (He was amazing cinematicly speaking, I mean he didn't make up for the failure of the other Imperials to do their jobs.)

Hoth was cool for the rebels because it showed what they were up against; it showed that they could lose. If the Empire doesn't win something soon it's going to get embarrassing.

Also: the Rebels get their butts kicked all the time in Rebels.

Hey guys, I'm just wondering... does the Empire ever win battles?

Like besides Hoth I can't think of a single battle this big scary Empire has actually won. You'll say "Oh, but OneKelvin didn't you see Rouge One ?" ,"The Empire definitely won the ________ above _____. Just look at all those dead rebels!" And I'd say no. No they didn't.

They lost more personnel, they lost more fighters, they lost more ships and crew, and they lost the objective as well. Not to mention the entire friggin _____, but that was just because ______ wanted to test-fire his new toy. Vader did alright, but he didn't make up for the fail. Edit. (He was amazing cinematicly speaking, I mean he didn't make up for the failure of the other Imperials to do their jobs.)

Hoth was cool for the rebels because it showed what they were up against; it showed that they could lose. If the Empire doesn't win something soon it's going to get embarrassing.

The Empire lost, like, 2 Star Destroyers. In exchange, they took out about 90% of the Rebel fleet. Seems like a fairly major victory.

Also: the Rebels get their butts kicked all the time in Rebels.

Battles and wars aren't won by comparing K/D ratio like in Call of Duty. The objective was to get the plans and they achieved it, with enough forces to space to exploit it in the next battle.

And the opening crawl of ANH does talk about the Rebels having won their first victory against the Galactic Empire.

Presumably this is "first major victorious mission".

Battles and wars aren't won by comparing K/D ratio like in Call of Duty. The objective was to get the plans and they achieved it, with enough forces to space to exploit it in the next battle.

I see what you're saying, but the Empire also achieved it's goals. In any sane universe the Rebellion was crushed at Scarif, and it's couple dozen surviving starfighters are simply not enough to be worth mentioning.

Hey guys, I'm just wondering... does the Empire ever win battles?

Well, there was that part about taking over the Republic, getting rid of the Seperatists, destroying the Jedi order, becoming the Emperor of the galaxy and building the Empire. It's kind of hard to top that achievement.

Um... they won against 2 moisture farmers?

Edit: Oh and Jawas! That was a though fight... we just never saw it happen, but I'm sure it was!

I see what you're saying, but the Empire also achieved it's goals. In any sane universe the Rebellion was crushed at Scarif, and it's couple dozen surviving starfighters are simply not enough to be worth mentioning.

Given that in the pre-Yavin era Mon Cal ships formed the backbone of many Rebel task forces (Rogue One: Secret Mission) it's possible that this is just one of them - the biggest.

Um... they won against 2 moisture farmers?

Edit: Oh and Jawas! That was a though fight... we just never saw it happen, but I'm sure it was!

Here you go.

Just in case you've never seen it, yet.

Battles and wars aren't won by comparing K/D ratio like in Call of Duty. The objective was to get the plans and they achieved it, with enough forces to space to exploit it in the next battle.

I see what you're saying, but the Empire also achieved it's goals. In any sane universe the Rebellion was crushed at Scarif, and it's couple dozen surviving starfighters are simply not enough to be worth mentioning.

Very light rogue one spoilers

Hubris is the real reason the Rebellion succeeds.

I would say plot devices are the real reason the Rebellion succeeds.

Even with the loss of another Death Star and the Emperor, there's really no reason the Empire should have folded in a year like it did.

Hubris is the real reason the Rebellion succeeds.

I would say plot devices are the real reason the Rebellion succeeds.

Even with the loss of another Death Star and the Emperor, there's really no reason the Empire should have folded in a year like it did.

Year and a half. Give the Empire a little credit.

Well sure plot devices but most of those are to do with arrogance and over confidence amongst the Imperial hierarchy.

DS1.. launch more than a squadron of TIEs or actually have an escorting fleet... Bye bye Rebellion. Drop out of hyperspace further out from Hoth and make a tactical or stealth approach.. bye bye Rebellion. Order the Imperial Fleet at Endor to fukly engage rather than just provide a cordon..

You get the point.

Alexander the Great.. his empire disappeared quick. It's not beyond the realms of possibility. The Empire was run by power hungry snakes. They'd be too busy turning on each other following Palpatines death to be a force against the the Alliance.

It bugs me the Empire collapses a year after Endor. The new canon has thirty years to play with before the Force Awakens. Why not set Jakku three years after Endor? Nothing changes and we get a slightly more realistic portrayal of the Empire's collapse.

Maybe the reason it was decided the Empire surrendered a year and a half after Endor is so that writers of future Star Wars content placed between Episode VI and VII have a "blank slate" of a galaxy to work with sooner rather than later. So to speak.

Within the Star Wars universe, it does make some sense that the Empire would fall so quickly after Endor. With both Palpatine and Vader gone, control of the Empire would most likely fall to the Moffs. And they've always been depicted as power-hungry and work to their own agendas that would often try to destroy their rivals. Without the Emperor to keep them controlled and in-line, the power struggle probably destroyed the Empire internally faster than the Rebellion would have from the outside.

Although, I did kind of like the old canon where the Empire survived in various states for years and years after Endor.

Well sure plot devices but most of those are to do with arrogance and over confidence amongst the Imperial hierarchy.

DS1.. launch more than a squadron of TIEs or actually have an escorting fleet... Bye bye Rebellion. Drop out of hyperspace further out from Hoth and make a tactical or stealth approach.. bye bye Rebellion. Order the Imperial Fleet at Endor to fukly engage rather than just provide a cordon..

You get the point.

Alexander the Great.. his empire disappeared quick. It's not beyond the realms of possibility. The Empire was run by power hungry snakes. They'd be too busy turning on each other following Palpatines death to be a force against the the Alliance.

Y'know I never did give it much thought, but you're right. The Imperial fleet was just sitting there laying eggs or somesuch because Teh Hemperor! was hedging all of his bets on an external shield generator. Seriously Palps; why? Yeah, yeah we might hit our own ships. It's not like you dive a darn about the fleet anyway.

And you didn't fill the reactor room with TIEs. Or put in a secondary shield.

Or just let the FLEET do its JOB. Forget the super weapons, wonder weapons, wonder waffles, and just build more ships. Even the Star Destroyers kind of slide into the "uselessly large and immobile" category.

The Imperial fleet was just sitting there laying eggs or somesuch because Teh Hemperor! was hedging all of his bets on an external shield generator. Seriously Palps; why?

Because the Emperor was only truely concerned with what was happening in that throne room. The battle being fought was meaningless to him.

Everything was proceeding as he had foreseen.

He knew beforehand about the assault on the shield generator. Vader sensed them aboard the shuttle and let them through.

He didn't care about it other than a way of getting Luke onto the station. If Luke had not been there or been previously killed, he would have blown up the shuttle before it even landed.

In the end, the battle around Endor was meaningless other than a way of twisting the knife to push Luke towards the Dark Side.

In living color.

(right below this)

Is that not the most awesome thing you've seen, other than the movie itself, they actually built one.

I believe this is a slightly better capture.

In living color.

(right below this)

Is that not the most awesome thing you've seen, other than the movie itself, they actually built one.

I believe this is a slightly better capture.

MFW

Battles and wars aren't won by comparing K/D ratio like in Call of Duty. The objective was to get the plans and they achieved it, with enough forces to space to exploit it in the next battle.

I see what you're saying, but the Empire also achieved it's goals. In any sane universe the Rebellion was crushed at Scarif, and it's couple dozen surviving starfighters are simply not enough to be worth mentioning.

Very light rogue one spoilers

The empire lost two about 300,000,000 credits in space and most likely even more on the ground, meanwhile the attacking rebel fleet was worth less than 100 million credits in the first place and the mission was a success and lead to the destruction of the death star just a short time later. Loss in lives look similar grim for the empire.

Now you may claim that the empire outnumbers the rebellion heavily and has so much more resources than the rebels, which is kind of true, but at the same time very misleading. The empire has just about 1,000,000 capital ships, starting with as small ships as gozanti and going all up to the super star destroyers, about 24,000 of those are actually star destroyers. That is a lot more ships the rebellion ever had under direct control ever, BUT that 1 million ships is trying to control a galaxy of 20,000,000 intelligent species, most of them not happy with the empire. The galaxy is vast and while the rebellion is always short on resources we have seen as well one of the reasons why the rebellion is so short on resources: The rebellion is sharing its resources with tons of worlds which get exploited by the empire. Finding new recruits under these circumstances is actually easier than even cloning and conscripts are certainly not as motivated as are desperate terrorist. The empire needed the deathstar for exact this reason, the rebellion is a real threat to the empire if its fire spreads. Not even the imperial fleet is big enough to suppress that fire.

And this is the real lesson: militaries are the wrong tool to use to stop a popular insurgency. Instead, an insurgency should be viewed as the delegitimization of a government, and the government needs to create the sort of power structures that can cause folks to view it with legitimacy once more.

The other neat trick a government can pull to maintain control is using terrorists violence at a local level while not using national force. In this manner, a captive population can hold out hope that a higher level of government will rescue them, and so they will not (necessarily) begin active resistance to their own murders.

This was exactly how, for instance, Jim Crow was maintained, and how it has been reimposed.

In any event, the Death Star is the exact wrong response to the rebellion. It poses the sort of existential threat that leaves a subjegated population feeling that their lives are forfeit if they _don't_ fight, so they might as well take a few of the bad guys with them.

Hey guys, I'm just wondering... does the Empire ever win battles?

Battles and wars aren't won by comparing K/D ratio like in Call of Duty. The objective was to get the plans and they achieved it, with enough forces to space to exploit it in the next battle.

I see what you're saying, but the Empire also achieved it's goals. In any sane universe the Rebellion was crushed at Scarif, and it's couple dozen surviving starfighters are simply not enough to be worth mentioning.

You could just as easily say that any remaining capital ships were evacuated from Yavin along with non-essential personnel once it was realised that only fighters could penetrate the Death Star's shields.