something i noticed while catching up on episodes..

in the iron squadron episode, i started wondering where the Bomber appeared from, since i'd not seen one earlier inthe episode. i'd wondered if maybe the light cruiser had carried it between the forward blades, the way the Interceptors were a few episodes earlier.

then i noticed that when the trap is sprung on the ghost, you had this:

and i realized that lower gozanti looked a little odd..

it's carrying three TIE fighters and one TIE Bomber.

since the Gozanti's also are fully loaded here, and (i'm pretty sure) they lost a few fighters in the preceding battle, it is likely one of the Gozanti's went for resupply on fighters, and brought back the bomber so the Admiral could do his plan.

too bad you can't do this kind of mix in the game though..

From personal experience, if I popped up the Gunboat on my Facebook feed I know I would get a fair few comments about it... In fact I did put up a picture a month or so ago and had 3 or 4 people go "wow, I would totally buy one of those that would be awesome".

I very much doubt the Skipray would get the same response, unfortunately though I know a lot of Star Wars fans love the Thrawn trilogy, most of the average public haven't even read it, and though Empire at War has the Skipray it's just another unit (and wasn't even in the original game only an add on). The gunboat was a major part of a lot of our childhoods, you have to remember back then there was not the saturation of good games there are now. Almost all gamers of a certain age will have memories of that ship, as I can't think of many serious gamers that didn't play the Tie Fighter series (even if they weren't huge Star Wars fans).

I've no axe to grind on the Gunboat/Skipray issue - I've now made 3d prints of both, and will probably try and optimise them producing more - but I would just say that, as an older member from the OT release period, I never really bothered with the 90's games or novels, so wouldn't have been familiar with either ship...except for

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Vehicles_and_Vessels

...which has the Skipray in it - so I knew what it was supposed to look like, and it did have that neat attention-grabbing wing-swivel for landing.

I'd think the Essential Guides were popular with those of my generation, more interested in the technical side than novels trying to fill the void since the film releases

I think one of the reasons the TIE Defender set this far back startles me so much is because it seems fighter development is reversed in the new canon.

In Legends, the Empire was forced to realize they had to step up their game when two squadrons of shielded Rebel starfighters defeated an elite cadre of Imperial pilots and blew up the most expensive piece of Imperial hardware at the time. It forced the Empire's bureaucrats to finally push the development of more advanced starfighters, even beyond the TIE Interceptor. The result was the TIE Avenger and later the TIE Defender... the best production starfighter in the galaxy, barring none. One on one it easily bested every other fighter set against it.

Now in the new canon, it appears the TIE Defender is the biggest thing on the block that the X-Wing is probably called out and called upon to defeat. It also means the X-Wings are newer than the TIE/D, which was supposed to be the ultimate expression of space fighter supremacy. The TIE/D was originally so powerful Thrawn had to develop a highly specific counter to stop it.

Not anymore apparently, because this means that Hera in an X-Wing will probably chump the TIE Defender in the fourth season climax or something, establishing that TIE/Ds are only as good as an X-Wing.

I used to eat X-Wings for lunch in my TIE/D within the flight simulators. I guess what I'm saying is that I'll be disappointed if the TIE/D isn't some nigh insurmountable menace that takes extraordinary measures, beyond simply a new starfighter, to stop. They've done a good job with Thrawn so far so I know I shouldn't be concerned... still... I'm skeptical because this is a show where the Rebels have to prevail, so that foreshadowed TIE Defender is doomed.

At least stopping Vader meant trading Asoka. I'm hoping to take down a TIE/D, the Rebels have to lose something like the Ghost, Hera, or Chopper.

I'm simply taking issue with the blatantly false statement of the Blastboat being a more popular craft than the Gunboat.

The Skipray Blastboat was a staple of the old EU novels: it appears in about 26 of them. It also appears in one of the flight sims. The Assault Gunboat appeared in its flight sims and was barely used outside of that.

In terms of authors I think it's fairly clear which is the more popular.

Ok, I'll admit, I haven't looked through all 298 pages of this thread to see if this has been covered yet, but what's the deal with Rebels and the Imperial Star Destroyers?

Every clip I watch you have like 3 of them moseying along after the Ghost and it seems like they're always like

Commander: Pfassk guys, the Rebels, they are coming. Fire our pfassk!!!

Gunner: But I am le tired.

Commander: Well have a nap... THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!

I think there was only one time in seasons 1-2 that there were any shots coming from an ISD and even then it was just single shots.

Did the Empire spend all their credits creating the ISD hulls and figured that their imposing visage would keep the systems in line without need of weapons?

Is it just too expensive to animate that many green lines or do they think the space combat would be too exciting with the Rebels having to dodge capital ship fire as well as the half dozen TIEs?

Ok, I'll admit, I haven't looked through all 298 pages of this thread to see if this has been covered yet, but what's the deal with Rebels and the Imperial Star Destroyers?

Every clip I watch you have like 3 of them moseying along after the Ghost and it seems like they're always like

Commander: Pfassk guys, the Rebels, they are coming. Fire our pfassk!!!

Gunner: But I am le tired.

Commander: Well have a nap... THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!

I think there was only one time in seasons 1-2 that there were any shots coming from an ISD and even then it was just single shots.

Did the Empire spend all their credits creating the ISD hulls and figured that their imposing visage would keep the systems in line without need of weapons?

Is it just too expensive to animate that many green lines or do they think the space combat would be too exciting with the Rebels having to dodge capital ship fire as well as the half dozen TIEs?

Maybe (pure speculation and probably not too believeable) the main weaponry is not accurate enough to attack the ghost long range, while they stay away too far for anti fighter weapons to be effective.

I think one of the reasons the TIE Defender set this far back startles me so much is because it seems fighter development is reversed in the new canon.

In Legends, the Empire was forced to realize they had to step up their game when two squadrons of shielded Rebel starfighters defeated an elite cadre of Imperial pilots and blew up the most expensive piece of Imperial hardware at the time. It forced the Empire's bureaucrats to finally push the development of more advanced starfighters, even beyond the TIE Interceptor. The result was the TIE Avenger and later the TIE Defender... the best production starfighter in the galaxy, barring none. One on one it easily bested every other fighter set against it.

Now in the new canon, it appears the TIE Defender is the biggest thing on the block that the X-Wing is probably called out and called upon to defeat. It also means the X-Wings are newer than the TIE/D, which was supposed to be the ultimate expression of space fighter supremacy. The TIE/D was originally so powerful Thrawn had to develop a highly specific counter to stop it.

Not anymore apparently, because this means that Hera in an X-Wing will probably chump the TIE Defender in the fourth season climax or something, establishing that TIE/Ds are only as good as an X-Wing.

I used to eat X-Wings for lunch in my TIE/D within the flight simulators. I guess what I'm saying is that I'll be disappointed if the TIE/D isn't some nigh insurmountable menace that takes extraordinary measures, beyond simply a new starfighter, to stop. They've done a good job with Thrawn so far so I know I shouldn't be concerned... still... I'm skeptical because this is a show where the Rebels have to prevail , so that foreshadowed TIE Defender is doomed.

At least stopping Vader meant trading Asoka. I'm hoping to take down a TIE/D, the Rebels have to lose something like the Ghost, Hera, or Chopper.

My bold.

I would hope that the lothal rebels will ultimately be defeated, either dying or being completely shattered... after all none of them are around for the victories at Yavin IV or Endor.

That said, i can totally see some bollocks whereby they're away for that but an old Ezra and Sabine show up for Episode 8/9... Wouldn't surprise me.

Guess we'll have to wait and see, but I think it'd be artistically more interesting to see the good guys, despite their best efforts, crushed under the weight of the empires boot, because only force-Jesus(Luke) can truly save the rebellion.

Commander: Pfassk guys, the Rebels, they are coming. Fire our pfassk!!!

Gunner: But I am le tired.

Commander: Well have a nap... THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!

Bout that time eh chaps?

Righto.

I've just reviewed the episode here - http://superdstuff.com/star-wars-rebels-an-inside-man/

My favourite episode of S3? Possibly. Not just because of the Defender confirmation either!

Ok, I'll admit, I haven't looked through all 298 pages of this thread to see if this has been covered yet, but what's the deal with Rebels and the Imperial Star Destroyers?

Every clip I watch you have like 3 of them moseying along after the Ghost and it seems like they're always like

Commander: Pfassk guys, the Rebels, they are coming. Fire our pfassk!!!

Gunner: But I am le tired.

Commander: Well have a nap... THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!

I think there was only one time in seasons 1-2 that there were any shots coming from an ISD and even then it was just single shots.

Did the Empire spend all their credits creating the ISD hulls and figured that their imposing visage would keep the systems in line without need of weapons?

Is it just too expensive to animate that many green lines or do they think the space combat would be too exciting with the Rebels having to dodge capital ship fire as well as the half dozen TIEs?

I think part of it is the Rebels don't have anything large enough for the Star Destroyers to shoot at. Even CR-90s, they're either too quick for the guns or not significant enough to field the full weight of fire on. If there's enemy small ships, wipe them out with massed fighters. No need to complicate friendly fire matters with shooting turbolaser bolts into a friendly furball.

My bold.

I would hope that the lothal rebels will ultimately be defeated, either dying or being completely shattered... after all none of them are around for the victories at Yavin IV or Endor.

That said, i can totally see some bollocks whereby they're away for that but an old Ezra and Sabine show up for Episode 8/9... Wouldn't surprise me.

Guess we'll have to wait and see, but I think it'd be artistically more interesting to see the good guys, despite their best efforts, crushed under the weight of the empires boot, because only force-Jesus(Luke) can truly save the rebellion.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they should be defeated. I think the Rebels can be in different places than Yavin... Dodonna is just one cell in the rebellion, not the closest or most prominent. Mon Mothma isn't even there after all, and we haven't even met Dodonna in Rebels.

MY hope is that Thrawn, TIE/Ds, and a few other things remain credible, viable threats in the universe. Our Heroes shouldn't be anyone terrifically special, because then why is Luke special? Because when you think about it, for all their bluster, the Inquisitors were kind of easily defeated by the Jedi. What does it say about them when they can't defeat runaway Jedi like they were mandated, organized, and trained to do?

Very few direct threats to the Rebels remain unopposed. Tarkin hasn't been snubbed, just sidestepped. Pryce has only been confronted in the Antilles extraction. The only way Vader was stopped was with Ashoka's sacrifice. So far Thrawn is playing a smart game of sacrificing pawns and doing positioning while the Rebels win their minor victories. I sincerely hope he lives beyond the show to do greater things, and the TIE/D isn't some featured one-off that gets run over by the Rebellion.

You know, eight times out of ten, somebody's suggestion is "Kill _____ or introduce character back from _____ " and I just gotta say I'm real, real glad the writers of Rebels ain't doin that.

Has anyone stopped to think that the TIE Defender might just be a lure and not an actual production run? Show the rebels a new space fighter with amazing capabilities, because you know the rebels will steal the plans, then wait for them to show up with their fleet, because the actual factory is heavily defended, to take out the whole rebel cell.

Yeah its possible...I've always thought we'll see Thrawn place a high value target in the rebels path and once they commit to engaging it be ambushed by Thrawn's fleet along with an Interdictor, and maybe squadrons of Tie Defenders which of course are fully functional not just prototypes like the rebels believe.

The result? the rebel fleet is destroyed most of the Ghost crew are captured...a few escape and the next season is about rebuilding and rescuing the captured crew. Maybe Boba Fett could be the primary antagonist as he chases the remaining ghost crew for Thrawn.

Best episode in a long while, TIE Defender so firmly canon it's not funny. As mentioned it had a lego set, a micromachine toy and several, several different videogame appearances from TIE Fighter to Empire at War to battlefront.

As for calling TIE Fighter obscure.

As I am so fond of saying it is even now still being listed as the best space sims ever on polls when they happen both on offline and online PC gaming magazines.

When you get to be called the #1 best space game ever over 20 years after publishing, you don't get to be called obscure.

the X-wing games re-release on both GOG and Steam was extremely noteworthy.

Basically what I'm saying is calling TIE Obscure is just flat out ******* wrong.

Sure, it's older than some members of the group, but that itself means.... JACK ****!

Mario is older than most of this group.

Doom is going to be older than a fair few.

PAC MAN

SPACE INVADERS.

These are all historically relevant games. TIE Fighter and Wing Commander are both historically relevant games of their genre.

As for the Gunboat. See my post in the gunboat thread. I am 99% sure that this ep just killed it's chances of ever being canon.


The DX-9 is still canon

Has anyone stopped to think that the TIE Defender might just be a lure and not an actual production run? Show the rebels a new space fighter with amazing capabilities, because you know the rebels will steal the plans, then wait for them to show up with their fleet, because the actual factory is heavily defended, to take out the whole rebel cell.

I'd say unlikely.

Observe Thrawn in this episode - he's not the usual calm "everything is proceeding as I have foreseen"-self. His actions show clearly that he will do everything to catch the infilitrators, at no point in this episode he leaves an open gate for Rebels' more or less beliveable escape - quite the opposite. His inital orders didn't account for the inside man, with whos help Rebels found said gate themselves, but Thrawn shut it close as soon as he figured out what's going on.

Also note his initial orders - kill on sight . Not capture, not pretend to chase and let go, as in previous episodes, but simple - you find the Rebels, you kill them. And by the end of the episode, when he learns who is he against he doesn't change the order - troopers and pilots are again instucted to kill on sight. He was ready to give up his link to the larger Rebellion, one that he risked a lot letting go three times before, to protect the top secret fighter.

@Star Destroyers

Imperial class is a farce in this show. It's ******* ridiculous. It's not a warship, it's an observation platform, a blind defenceless observation platform. It never fired at any fighters, the Ghost, at captured Gozantis or any of the capital ships. Capital ships in this show are hilariously weak in general, but the ISD is the worst offender BY FAR.

Completely unrelated note, don't know if you've seen it, the canon location of Lothal has been revealed some time ago:

It's suspiciously close to Mon Cala.

Completely unrelated note, don't know if you've seen it, the canon location of Lothal has been revealed some time ago:

It's suspiciously close to Mon Cala.

A good opportunity to bring in a "Mon Cala join the Rebellion, bringing their ships" plot. Maybe even have Ackbar.

Judging by how Thrawn operated in the books, I think that the Tie Defender is simply a lure. Why produce such an expensive craft in a world known for rebellions and a lack of security? That and my own view of Thrawn is that he excels at using existing technology to trap his opponents and not rely and something « brand new ».

So my guess is that the Rebel fleet will strike, but it will not find a few Tie Defender prototypes manned by test pilots, but rather an elite strike force of Tie Interceptors that were simply lying in wait inside the production facility. Add an Interdictor from the last season for maximum carnage. I think this would fit with the trailer for season 3 where you see interceptors making a pass at a rebel transport and inflicting a lot of damage.

The end result, a Rebel fleet crippled (possibly with Commander Sato captured or killed) and the Ghost crew on the run for the following season. Tie Defenders could actually chase it in the following seaons since they also have hyperdrives.

And the Chiss' had their own TIEs with shields and hyperdrives.

Thrawn in nu canon has all the resources he can dream of.

And if Thrawn wanted Rebels to learn about the Defender his actions in this episode were illogical.

A good opportunity to bring in a "Mon Cala join the Rebellion, bringing their ships" plot. Maybe even have Ackbar.

So my guess is that the Rebel fleet will strike, but it will not find a few Tie Defender prototypes manned by test pilots, but rather an elite strike force of Tie Interceptors that were simply lying in wait inside the production facility. Add an Interdictor from the last season for maximum carnage. I think this would fit with the trailer for season 3 where you see interceptors making a pass at a rebel transport and inflicting a lot of damage.

Wasn't that already seen in the Wedge Antilles episode?

The TIE Defender got a Lego set. End of debate there.

That was a fun episode. Seeing Thrawn Thrawn was fun. And it was a very first appearance Thrawn, who is good, but not infallible. Great use of him, hope he sticks around past this season.

The freaking TIE Droid got a LEGO set...I don't even know where that is from!

That.... might actually make it canon. I'm serious.

Here, lookit this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookiee_Cookie

Those are canon cookies, 100% real Wookiee in every bite. (Disclaimer: May not contain real Wookiee.)

Now look at the sources. The only appearance in the NuVerse: Lego Star Wars .

Edit. Wait.... there's a non-Canon disclaimer in the Canon section. I don't even know what to think anymore.

I was wondering how Maul was going to play out, apparently he's found himself to pull a couple episodes before the big attack on the Lothal factory! Hopefully he leads the gang to Obi-wan, who in turn knows a guy in mos eisley who has some info on some new Incom starfighters.... Kyle Katarn/Jan Ors anybody? Or possibly something new and different. Anyway, should be a good sub-arc before we get back to springing Thrawn's trap.

That is a lot of wishful thinking and I commend your optimism.

I'll admit it is, but I can dream right? We know the Rebels need a new fighter, at any rate, if there going to combat this new design. Or upgrade the existing ones. And Maul knows that "He" is alive, although that could lead into any number of possibilities (Obi-wan, Savage, Palpatine?, Yoda???). And I'd like to see a couple more of our EU named characters... not with exactly the same story, in fact I'd much rather prefer newer story arcs for characters they are bringing back(from the EU), as with Thrawn. If you bring back an old character into nu-canon and have them do all the same things it kind of defeats the purpose.

Of course Rebels realistically cannot res all of the Old EU, it was never really written with that in mind anyway, nor should anything be written with the purpose of shoehorning as much old stuff in as possible. That's why Dash Rendar wasn't piloting the outrider two episodes ago, project shantipole wasn't started by Admiral ackbar, etc.etc. But I do like the fact that they write in old EU stuff with the purpose of adding depth to the story of the ghost crew. (For the most part, I mean Lando was there for comedy relief, and Leia was a one off as well, even though she did deliver those transports.)

I was wondering how Maul was going to play out, apparently he's found himself to pull a couple episodes before the big attack on the Lothal factory! Hopefully he leads the gang to Obi-wan, who in turn knows a guy in mos eisley who has some info on some new Incom starfighters.... Kyle Katarn/Jan Ors anybody? Or possibly something new and different. Anyway, should be a good sub-arc before we get back to springing Thrawn's trap.

That is a lot of wishful thinking and I commend your optimism.

I'll admit it is, but I can dream right? We know the Rebels need a new fighter, at any rate, if there going to combat this new design. Or upgrade the existing ones. And Maul knows that "He" is alive, although that could lead into any number of possibilities (Obi-wan, Savage, Palpatine?, Yoda???). And I'd like to see a couple more of our EU named characters... not with exactly the same story, in fact I'd much rather prefer newer story arcs for characters they are bringing back(from the EU), as with Thrawn. If you bring back an old character into nu-canon and have them do all the same things it kind of defeats the purpose.

Of course Rebels realistically cannot res all of the Old EU, it was never really written with that in mind anyway, nor should anything be written with the purpose of shoehorning as much old stuff in as possible. That's why Dash Rendar wasn't piloting the outrider two episodes ago, project shantipole wasn't started by Admiral ackbar, etc.etc. But I do like the fact that they write in old EU stuff with the purpose of adding depth to the story of the ghost crew. (For the most part, I mean Lando was there for comedy relief, and Leia was a one off as well, even though she did deliver those transports.)

Maul knows Savage is dead, he saw that happen, he most likely doesn't care about Yoda, and well he is actively trying to bring Palpatine down, so the one that makes the most sense is Obi-Wan. And I suspect we will see the X-Wing sooner rather than later, the Rebels crew has already said that when they bring the ships into the show they will be a big deal. I feel we will see them definitely next season, though quite possibly the later half of this season, hopefully they will include the theft of the craft from Incom in an episode, either having Wedge come back to help steal them or to have Saw Gerra and his rebel group help in their theft.

I hope we won't see how Rebels got the X-wings in this show, even if we see X-wings, Rebel Alliance is supposed to be bigger than the Ghost and Sato's little fleet.

I hope we won't see how Rebels got the X-wings in this show, even if we see X-wings, Rebel Alliance is supposed to be bigger than the Ghost and Sato's little fleet.

...We're definitely gonna see how X-Wings were procured.

But uh, you know that they've said multiple times there are more cells, right?

Maybe (pure speculation and probably not too believeable) the main weaponry is not accurate enough to attack the ghost long range, while they stay away too far for anti fighter weapons to be effective.

I think part of it is the Rebels don't have anything large enough for the Star Destroyers to shoot at. Even CR-90s, they're either too quick for the guns or not significant enough to field the full weight of fire on. If there's enemy small ships, wipe them out with massed fighters. No need to complicate friendly fire matters with shooting turbolaser bolts into a friendly furball.

I could understand this, but we've seen ISDs firing both at the Tantive IV and at the Falcon. The Devastator had no real problem disabling the Tantive despite the latter being in full retreat and the Death Squadron were at least able to bullseye asteroids (to a certain extent).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how concentrated fire can be used to deny safe access to certain reaches of airspace (or... um... spacespace).

If you saturate a region with prolonged weapons fire from dozens of batteries, no ship in their right mind would try to evade fighters by going into that region. Even plot armor couldn't stand firepower of that magnitude. That funnels the quarry into a more narrow region allowing fighters to focus fire.

Additionally, these ships are meant to be used in orbital bombardment as well. That would imply they should at least be able to hit in a reasonable vicinity of something from orbit.

But instead the biggest energy weapon we've seen on these ships since the Disney takeover is a spotlight. Because a 1.6km long ship makes a great police helicopter.