Stuff!

Things!

Excitement!

I'm really happy to see you explain what a Mary Sue actually is. It's... Refreshing.

Now, all that said.

Would you consider Rey as such?

Hmmmmm......

Rey is pretty powerful. She gets captured twice. Without the force she's a pretty average combatant. (So she bo-staved a few thugs and shot a stormtrooper. Haven't we all?.)

From wikipedia:

A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character , a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment. ^[1] Sometimes the name is reserved only for women, and male Sues are called "Gary Stus" or "Marty Stus"; but more often the name is used for both sexes of offenders.

Is she idealized and perfect? She's a little tough from being a desert not-slave (she gets paid in food), but for the most bit she's made out to be a little naive. She might not be as shocked as a farmboy apon seeing the platitudes of the galaxy, but I don't think she's quite perfect. Perfect skin maybe, but not a "perfect" character.

Low-rank. Young. Yes. Yes. Moving on.

Author-insert, or wish fulfillment? I don't know the author well enough to say. Wish fulfillment? She's not as leathered as Shimi, but she's hardly the first toughened desert-girl we've run into. She's not the same type of girl as Leia, and I'm not sure if anyone upper-class is going to become a character any time soon in this political climate. It's really hard to say here.

I think the Mary-sue paranoia comes from some of the stuff they've been doing recently with female characters. Popular opinions drive the content of stories in all ages, and with this new feminism stuff there has been a demand for more strong women characters. Sometimes people make them too strong to be interesting. Sometimes people give them the same traits that made their male characters strong and it just feels off.

In yea olden days, man and women were different creatures with different strengths and people were fine with that. Men had it easy to be tough and stuff, women had it easy to be charming and things. And we got good results when a character from one of those camps showed they had made an effort to cross the boundary.

Han Solo - tough guy, sometimes charming. Not very diplomatic.

Princess Leia - Diplomatic girl, charming, brave. Can fight a little, but she's not a brawler.

Now they want these guys and girls to be everything. I'm a girl, and tough, and really charming, and good. I'm a guy and tough, and charming, and good. It doesn't work, it's not realistic enough to be believable.

They're afraid I think, that if they make a character have weaknesses in this political climate that they'll get eaten. That if they make a female character who can't fight, or a black character who is sneaky, that they'll get ruined by mobs of mobbieness.

Anyway, I think Rey has a bit of a character decision ahead; they downplayed her flaws for whatever reason, and if they want her to grow in an interesting way she's going to need some personal flaws to overcome.

Flaws make conflict, conflict drives the plot. Having few flaws doesn't make a Sue, but it does make a flat character.

Luke - Idealism, inexperience, lack of faith.

Ben - Age.

Han - Boorishness, rashness, past mistakes.

Leia - Not a fighter, emotional distress, responsibility to the cause.

R2-D2, C-3PO - Droids, with all that entails.

Vader - Son issues, bad guy.

Kylo Ren - Daddy issues, too psychically and physically strong to be safe with his emotional volatility.

Poe Dameron - Not sure. He might be bad in personal combat.

Finn - Traitorous, friends left behind, not to be trusted but he doesn't interact enough with people who know he was stomtrooper to make it matter. Not too good at combat.

Rey - Initially pretty weak in combat, but they undermine it with her action scenes sooooo....

Captain Phasma - Coward.

FN-2199 - Brave, honor-bound, betrayed by close associate, forgets to watch his surroundings.

How is Rey weak in combat, even initally? Taking multiple opponents at once in meele requires a lot of skill, any hand-to-hand instructor will tell you that if you are up against more that one person your best bet is to run as fast as you can.

eMeM's right, she was always competent in hand to hand combat, and wasn't too bad with her first time carrying a blaster around either.

Biggest problem Rey has as a developing character is that to balance her out, one needs to introduce flaws to her. Anakin and Rey have a lot of similarities, but even little annie was, well. Just that.

He was a little boy with hopes and dreams but zero experience. Sure, he was a prodigy, and he pulled off a lot of BS but that he was younger than the rest of the characters- which was a constant throughout the prequels, was more or less always his biggest issue.

Rey doesn't really have that.

Rey has family issues, and while she's good with her pole her lightsaber technique is more 'stab with the pointy end' than skilled... At least until she taps into the force... Don't go there. I have issues with that at this time, and unless we learn she's had some training real young those issues will remain.

the short story released at the same time showed where she developed many of her skills... Mechanical, technical, piloting, but highlighted further abandonments and a flat reaction to it as well. I would have liked to see some more weaknesses myself... Hopefully we get to see more of a complete Rey in 8.

Just for general consumption, and because Thrawn is now A-Grade canon, I think it should be known that MicroJumps* are technically canon again too. They used them in the Clone Wars, they set a precedent for the Falcon's stunt at Starkiller base, and they were a key component in many of Thrawn's trademark tactical maneuvers.

I'm wondering, will we see Thrawn perform any of the CREEED-type tactics he was known for in the EU? Could the Rebels (story-wise) afford a few of the crippling defeats he was known for delivering and still have enough to contribute to the Rebellion? What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Precision_hyperspace_jump

Someone told me that tarkin or swbf ghost company had microjumping SDs.

Stuff!

Things!

Excitement!

I'm really happy to see you explain what a Mary Sue actually is. It's... Refreshing.

Now, all that said.

Would you consider Rey as such?

Hmmmmm......

Rey is pretty powerful. She gets captured twice. Without the force she's a pretty average combatant. (So she bo-staved a few thugs and shot a stormtrooper. Haven't we all?.)

From wikipedia:

A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character , a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment. ^[1] Sometimes the name is reserved only for women, and male Sues are called "Gary Stus" or "Marty Stus"; but more often the name is used for both sexes of offenders.

Is she idealized and perfect? She's a little tough from being a desert not-slave (she gets paid in food), but for the most bit she's made out to be a little naive. She might not be as shocked as a farmboy apon seeing the platitudes of the galaxy, but I don't think she's quite perfect. Perfect skin maybe, but not a "perfect" character.

Low-rank. Young. Yes. Yes. Moving on.

Author-insert, or wish fulfillment? I don't know the author well enough to say. Wish fulfillment? She's not as leathered as Shimi, but she's hardly the first toughened desert-girl we've run into. She's not the same type of girl as Leia, and I'm not sure if anyone upper-class is going to become a character any time soon in this political climate. It's really hard to say here.

I think the Mary-sue paranoia comes from some of the stuff they've been doing recently with female characters. Popular opinions drive the content of stories in all ages, and with this new feminism stuff there has been a demand for more strong women characters. Sometimes people make them too strong to be interesting. Sometimes people give them the same traits that made their male characters strong and it just feels off.

In yea olden days, man and women were different creatures with different strengths and people were fine with that. Men had it easy to be tough and stuff, women had it easy to be charming and things. And we got good results when a character from one of those camps showed they had made an effort to cross the boundary.

Han Solo - tough guy, sometimes charming. Not very diplomatic.

Princess Leia - Diplomatic girl, charming, brave. Can fight a little, but she's not a brawler.

Now they want these guys and girls to be everything. I'm a girl, and tough, and really charming, and good. I'm a guy and tough, and charming, and good. It doesn't work, it's not realistic enough to be believable.

They're afraid I think, that if they make a character have weaknesses in this political climate that they'll get eaten. That if they make a female character who can't fight, or a black character who is sneaky, that they'll get ruined by mobs of mobbieness.

Anyway, I think Rey has a bit of a character decision ahead; they downplayed her flaws for whatever reason, and if they want her to grow in an interesting way she's going to need some personal flaws to overcome.

Flaws make conflict, conflict drives the plot. Having few flaws doesn't make a Sue, but it does make a flat character.

Luke - Idealism, inexperience, lack of faith.

Ben - Age.

Han - Boorishness, rashness, past mistakes.

Leia - Not a fighter, emotional distress, responsibility to the cause.

R2-D2, C-3PO - Droids, with all that entails.

Vader - Son issues, bad guy.

Kylo Ren - Daddy issues, too psychically and physically strong to be safe with his emotional volatility.

Poe Dameron - Not sure. He might be bad in personal combat.

Finn - Traitorous, friends left behind, not to be trusted but he doesn't interact enough with people who know he was stomtrooper to make it matter. Not too good at combat.

Rey - Initially pretty weak in combat, but they undermine it with her action scenes sooooo....

Captain Phasma - Coward.

FN-2199 - Brave, honor-bound, betrayed by close associate, forgets to watch his surroundings.

Poe's probably our Mary Sue of this Trilogy if there ever was one (I say that lightly, I really, really, really, like Poe.) Same as Wedge was in the OT. Perfect pilot, charming personality, natural leader, Pilot skill 9. No real conflict with any of his allies. Already an established character (was established off screen).

Stuff!

Things!

Excitement!

I'm really happy to see you explain what a Mary Sue actually is. It's... Refreshing.

Now, all that said.

Would you consider Rey as such?

Hmmmmm......

Rey is pretty powerful. She gets captured twice. Without the force she's a pretty average combatant. (So she bo-staved a few thugs and shot a stormtrooper. Haven't we all?.)

From wikipedia:

A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character , a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment. ^[1] Sometimes the name is reserved only for women, and male Sues are called "Gary Stus" or "Marty Stus"; but more often the name is used for both sexes of offenders.

Is she idealized and perfect? She's a little tough from being a desert not-slave (she gets paid in food), but for the most bit she's made out to be a little naive. She might not be as shocked as a farmboy apon seeing the platitudes of the galaxy, but I don't think she's quite perfect. Perfect skin maybe, but not a "perfect" character.

Low-rank. Young. Yes. Yes. Moving on.

Author-insert, or wish fulfillment? I don't know the author well enough to say. Wish fulfillment? She's not as leathered as Shimi, but she's hardly the first toughened desert-girl we've run into. She's not the same type of girl as Leia, and I'm not sure if anyone upper-class is going to become a character any time soon in this political climate. It's really hard to say here.

I think the Mary-sue paranoia comes from some of the stuff they've been doing recently with female characters. Popular opinions drive the content of stories in all ages, and with this new feminism stuff there has been a demand for more strong women characters. Sometimes people make them too strong to be interesting. Sometimes people give them the same traits that made their male characters strong and it just feels off.

In yea olden days, man and women were different creatures with different strengths and people were fine with that. Men had it easy to be tough and stuff, women had it easy to be charming and things. And we got good results when a character from one of those camps showed they had made an effort to cross the boundary.

Han Solo - tough guy, sometimes charming. Not very diplomatic.

Princess Leia - Diplomatic girl, charming, brave. Can fight a little, but she's not a brawler.

Now they want these guys and girls to be everything. I'm a girl, and tough, and really charming, and good. I'm a guy and tough, and charming, and good. It doesn't work, it's not realistic enough to be believable.

They're afraid I think, that if they make a character have weaknesses in this political climate that they'll get eaten. That if they make a female character who can't fight, or a black character who is sneaky, that they'll get ruined by mobs of mobbieness.

Anyway, I think Rey has a bit of a character decision ahead; they downplayed her flaws for whatever reason, and if they want her to grow in an interesting way she's going to need some personal flaws to overcome.

Flaws make conflict, conflict drives the plot. Having few flaws doesn't make a Sue, but it does make a flat character.

Luke - Idealism, inexperience, lack of faith.

Ben - Age.

Han - Boorishness, rashness, past mistakes.

Leia - Not a fighter, emotional distress, responsibility to the cause.

R2-D2, C-3PO - Droids, with all that entails.

Vader - Son issues, bad guy.

Kylo Ren - Daddy issues, too psychically and physically strong to be safe with his emotional volatility.

Poe Dameron - Not sure. He might be bad in personal combat.

Finn - Traitorous, friends left behind, not to be trusted but he doesn't interact enough with people who know he was stomtrooper to make it matter. Not too good at combat.

Rey - Initially pretty weak in combat, but they undermine it with her action scenes sooooo....

Captain Phasma - Coward.

FN-2199 - Brave, honor-bound, betrayed by close associate, forgets to watch his surroundings.

Poe's probably our Mary Sue of this Trilogy if there ever was one (I say that lightly, I really, really, really, like Poe.) Same as Wedge was in the OT. Perfect pilot, charming personality, natural leader, Pilot skill 9. No real conflict with any of his allies. Already an established character (was established off screen).

He still got pawned by Darth Cadeus, and he tortured him and retrieved the information he wanted from him faster than Poe could say "Never More".

Although him being able to decapitate people with sand is a bit larry stewish.

He still got pawned by Darth Cadeus, and he tortured him and retrieved the information he wanted from him faster than Poe could say "Never More".

Although him being able to decapitate people with sand is a bit larry stewish.

Kylo Ren is NOT the same as Caedus. No where near as well written (and Caedus wasn't super well writen).

Rey might not be a mary sue, but she's certainly a very flat and boring character. Hopefully they'll do something to make her more interesting in episode 8. (hint: like maybe actually have some conflict)

But this is getting off topic, isn't there a new Rebels episode out today?

Well that was another good episode, I like the call back to ezras imperial uniform and helmet collection.
Some nice reminiscing from chopper about his past as well as full a bit of maniacal cackling, I heart chopper he is awesome.

A nice episode, I liked it much more than the previous one.

He still got pawned by Darth Cadeus, and he tortured him and retrieved the information he wanted from him faster than Poe could say "Never More".Although him being able to decapitate people with sand is a bit larry stewish.

Kylo Ren is NOT the same as Caedus. No where near as well written (and Caedus wasn't super well writen).Rey might not be a mary sue, but she's certainly a very flat and boring character. Hopefully they'll do something to make her more interesting in episode 8. (hint: like maybe actually have some conflict)But this is getting off topic, isn't there a new Rebels episode out today?

Are you seriously asking me if theres a new episode coming out today?

He still got pawned by Darth Cadeus, and he tortured him and retrieved the information he wanted from him faster than Poe could say "Never More".Although him being able to decapitate people with sand is a bit larry stewish.

Kylo Ren is NOT the same as Caedus. No where near as well written (and Caedus wasn't super well writen).Rey might not be a mary sue, but she's certainly a very flat and boring character. Hopefully they'll do something to make her more interesting in episode 8. (hint: like maybe actually have some conflict)But this is getting off topic, isn't there a new Rebels episode out today?

Are you seriously asking me if theres a new episode coming out today?

Things I liked:

Blergs. Saying it.

Dynamic scout trooper with poor decision-making skills.

His helmet.

Kanan, still deflecting blaster bolts.

Detective Thrawn.

Chopper's maniacal laugh. And every scene he laughed in.

Things I was not overly fond of:

Blergs. The animal. (How do they run so fast?)

Shooting the wall.

I think I like where they're going with Thrawn.

Evil. Check.

Gentleman. Check.

Uses art intelligently. Check

Nice until he's not. Check.

Blue. Check.

I'm pretty sure now that he'll be great for the rest of the season. I just hope they don't kill him at the end like all the other villains.

Favorite line: "No, sorry about the house..."

As a former MCH from SWG, I now want a Blerg. Also, now I randomly miss my Humbaba

Thrawn had plot armor against Ezra using force powers on him. Repaid by not nuking them from orbit as they escaped.

Chopper + Explosives = YES!

And Chopper seems to have gotten over his Y-Wing thing. He'll be a real astromech yet!

Kanan and Cham getting along at the table with Hera. Season finale is gonna be a wedding!

Didn't get much history out of that trinket they were going after.. I was expecting a tapestry of some sort.

One thing I really don't like about season 3 is Kanan's mask. Makes him look goofy, like a walking fly...

As a former MCH from SWG, I now want a Blerg. Also, now I randomly miss my Humbaba

Thrawn had plot armor against Ezra using force powers on him. Repaid by not nuking them from orbit as they escaped.

Chopper + Explosives = YES!

And Chopper seems to have gotten over his Y-Wing thing. He'll be a real astromech yet!

Kanan and Cham getting along at the table with Hera. Season finale is gonna be a wedding!

Didn't get much history out of that trinket they were going after.. I was expecting a tapestry of some sort.

Couldn't be tapestries. It'd be too close.

Two rebels infiltrate the ancient castle of an evil empire art-collector posing as guests, and ask to view the Tapestries. They then get captured, find a secret command post in the basement, and exit lighting the entire place on fire. Stop me if you've heard this one.

"If you are a scout-trooper then I am Micky Mouse! "

Where do I even begin with how many things that episode did right?

I just really, really want more badass Imperials like that scout trooper. "Alright, fine! I'll deal with this myself!" is just such a hardcore attitude for them to have.

By the way dudes.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blurrg

It's Blurrg, and fun fact...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blurrg-1120_holdout_blaster

It is also the name of the blaster model Hera uses.

Favorite line: "No, sorry about the house..."

It's good, but it doesn't top choppers gleeful giggle

Kanan and Cham getting along at the table with Hera. Season finale is gonna be a wedding!

A little voice in my head just reminded me this is a kids' show. In the immortal words of Jack Sparrow: "I love weddings! Drinks all around!"

Especially considering the very unchivalrous circumstances - maybe it is just me, but sabotaging a prisoser exchange (including killing enemy soilders) seems... wrong. Like shooting a guy with a white flag kind of wrong.

Thrawn would probably keep his word, but the Rebels don't know him well enough to expect any different from him than any other Imperial commander.

Dynamic scout trooper with poor decision-making skills.

I just hope they don't kill him at the end like all the other villains.

Interesting detail, the crashed Y-wing looks like the ones from the first episode, and those are not the same as TCW models, main difference being the size of the engines, maybe in the late Clone Wars a new model was introduced? Obviously this is the result of the limited budget, but I wonder if anyone will try to explain it somehow.

One thing I noticed in this episode....

I hope we get another episode with a prisoner exchange where the Imperial doesnt trust the rebels soley because he knows theyve backstabbed the Imperials before and it really bites the ghost team in the keister.

You're all being so positive about this episode whilst my initials thoughts are that it used characters being stupid, making the same mistake a character tells them he made, to force a situation which they then dealt with generally poorly until they were let off by the bad guy.

Sure it showed Thrawn nicely. I liked the helmet callback and the Y-Wing moment was sad. But otherwise it felt like filler.

Oh...the scout was a hardcore legend. Screw it! I'm getting on the GHOST!

I immediately regret this decision.

I just hope they don't kill him at the end like all the other villains.

God, me too. I want to be able to hold out hope that someday we might get a Nu-canon adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy.

The Empire lasts for quite a while after Endor in the NuCanon as well with Governors and Moffs all holding out till the bitter end. Even after Jakku they go on in an albeit neutered state, so he's got a decent bit of time to work with if he survives. (I heard the Raider-class is mentioned in the Lost Stars novel about Jakku. Not materiel enough to get totally classified as canon but pretty close. )

Kanan and Cham getting along at the table with Hera. Season finale is gonna be a wedding!

I think the word you were looking for was funeral. There aren't many ways to wrap up Season 3 without creating continuity problems for the original movies. Kanan dying would be thematically appropriate, and give Ezra a reason to really go to the Dark Side (which would solve another continuity problem.)

A little voice in my head just reminded me this is a kids' show. In the immortal words of Jack Sparrow: "I love weddings! Drinks all around!"

They might have wedding, it's not impossible. There just can't be any Jedi capable of defeating Vader by the time of ANH. If Ezra hangs up the sword and cape, it might be enough. Kanan is blind, and I think that might disqualify him from being the "Hope". It might go poorly for their kids though... Ren still has a few Jedi to kill of his own.

Just to clear it up, everyone has the access to force to some degree right? They said no life without midichlorians, they're like mitochondria; even a house plant could sense the force a little right?

Sooo, it was my understanding that every living thing had access to the force at a cellular level. You might have more or less aptitude depending on your genetic pre-disposition for midichlorian density (my father had it, etc, etc), but if you're alive you still have it; even if you have to work harder than other naturals to access it.

That sound right? Sound silly?

You're all being so positive about this episode whilst my initials thoughts are that it used characters being stupid, making the same mistake a character tells them he made, to force a situation which they then dealt with generally poorly until they were let off by the bad guy.

Sure it showed Thrawn nicely. I liked the helmet callback and the Y-Wing moment was sad. But otherwise it felt like filler.

Oh...the scout was a hardcore legend. Screw it! I'm getting on the GHOST!

I immediately regret this decision.

And Hera burned down her childhood home; that happened too.

We're mostly positive here, and stories are typically about mistakes. And how people overcome them. Or don't overcome them. (Muahahaha-ha.)