It's been confirmed on screen in Rebels time and time again that many of the Stormtroopers who get shot with blasters survive, and are just stunned/unconscious. Just pay attention to the bodies and you'll typically see motion. Now, I don't believe this was true for much of The Clone Wars, but that's beside the point.

Rex or Cody get shot by a sniper to the chest and the captain still survives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFSOyVvfueM

Thanks. As I said, it wasn't really true for much of the Clone Wars. But there were definitely instances like the one you posted where a character clearly survives being shot.

But of course The Marylorian Armor allows Sabine to not give a **** about a headshot.

It's been confirmed on screen in Rebels time and time again that many of the Stormtroopers who get shot with blasters survive, and are just stunned/unconscious. Just pay attention to the bodies and you'll typically see motion. Now, I don't believe this was true for much of The Clone Wars, but that's beside the point.

Rex or Cody get shot by a sniper to the chest and the captain still survives.

Thanks. As I said, it wasn't really true for much of the Clone Wars. But there were definitely instances like the one you posted where a character clearly survives being shot.

The point of this whole episode is that he barely survives.

But of course The Marylorian Armor allows Sabine to not give a **** about a headshot.

Well, sniper rifle != stray blaster shot. Agree that there should have been more consequences, though, could have had some good potential.

Well, sniper rifle != stray blaster shot. Agree that there should have been more consequences, though, could have had some good potential.

Its going to knock them out leading to a fiery death from the good old jetpack explosion aka how could these guys survive for this long when all they do is die because of their jetpacks?!

So what's with Sabine's jetpack deal?

Where did her jet boots go?

Sustained flight. How much propellant can you store in a boot, even if the motivation for it is electrical? Enough for spacewalk corrections, and brief strafes and jumps; but for sustainable atmospheric flight you either need a ton of electricity for fans, a ton of fuel for a jet, or a ton of propellant for a rocket. These gravity-fighting mechanisms take more space than a boot.

Though, speaking of gravity fighting mechanisms: I suspect the rocket is just for speed and primary thrust. The way the Mandos dance in the air, with no apparent maneuvering thrusters or stabilization rig, I'm willing to bet the jetpack hides an articulate antigravity unit much like the ones found in floating droids and STAPs.

I get all that, but they're still gone without explanation even though they were a major part of her design early on.

Sustained flight. How much propellant can you store in a boot, even if the motivation for it is electrical?

Well if it's electrical, however much power the made-up sci-fi battery lasts.

Sustained flight. How much propellant can you store in a boot, even if the motivation for it is electrical?

Well if it's electrical, however much power the made-up sci-fi battery lasts.

If the script demands it to run off juice at some dramatic point, then it lasts from the beginning of the chapter up to that point.

If the script doesn't deal with it at all, it has unlimited power.

Remember Hera and Sabine getting stuck on an asteroid base because their fuel tank had a leak. Yes, the fuel tank of a spaceship that has a fusion reactor.

Let's see how Mando Armour does against sticks and rocks.The first thing Sabine probably did with her armour was to ditch the rocket pack. Those things will just get you either decapitated or flung into a giant sand ******.

^Nah, she whines about not having a jetpack for some time now. And she is getting one this season anyway. ;-)

Well I guess that will be the end of our Favourite little Graffitti artist

Also, according to The Essential Guide To Warfare, Luke was a last minute replacement for Derek "Hobbie" Klivian at the Battle of Yavin.

Was this a retcon to Vader's Quest then? In that, Jal Te Gniev was the pilot whose X-wing Luke flew:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jal_Te_Gniev

Maybe Luke took Hobbie's spot in the squadron, but for some reason Hobbie's X-wing was unavailable so he got Gniev's X-wing instead?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Derek_Klivian/Legends

I believe the legends story was Hobbie had some planetary specific flu from a previous mission, so Luke flew his X-wing instead.

Just for general consumption, and because Thrawn is now A-Grade canon, I think it should be known that MicroJumps* are technically canon again too. They used them in the Clone Wars, they set a precedent for the Falcon's stunt at Starkiller base, and they were a key component in many of Thrawn's trademark tactical maneuvers.

I'm wondering, will we see Thrawn perform any of the CREEED-type tactics he was known for in the EU? Could the Rebels (story-wise) afford a few of the crippling defeats he was known for delivering and still have enough to contribute to the Rebellion? What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Precision_hyperspace_jump

He may well be why they don't make as big of an impact on the rest of the Rebellion.

What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

An overpowered super-prescient Mary Sue if he's like how Zahn wrote him.

What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

An overpowered super-prescient Mary Sue if he's like how Zahn wrote him.

More like, if he's how all the people who came after Zahn wrote him. Zahn basically criticized everybody treating Thrawn like a god in Hand of Thrawn later. Thrawn is sharper than most, thinks in ways most people don't and gets new information in new ways, but he was never originally written to be infallible.

No, no, Zahn wrote Mara as infallible...

What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

An overpowered super-prescient Mary Sue if he's like how Zahn wrote him.

I think this term might get used in places it doesn't belong.

Here. This is a Mary Sue. The Mary Sue.

She is an unstoppable, unbeatable, unflinching personification of everything the author personally believes. She wins mostly because she can't lose.

(Well, she would if she weren't an amazing parody. )

This is a Thrawn. The Thrawn.

He's a powerful character, who wins battles mostly by thinking ahead more steps than his opponents and using information in clever ways. He wins because the author wrote him to win. Same as any hero, same as any villain. This does not make him a Sue.

He was built to counter the Rebel heroes, who's ability to win in most situations rested on their physical abilities. He was given just enough power by the author to provide an interesting challenge to the divinely-favored "good" characters.

He challenged their battle tactics by being a better strategist.

He challenged their ethical superiority by not being an overly cruel or wasteful villain.

He challenged their popular support in the reader by being James-bond-Sherlock-type cool.

And then he died, killed by a person and an event that flaws in his personality did not allow him to see coming.

Now don't get worked up, I'm not criticizing you personally or fan-rooting for Thrawn; what I'm criticizing is the idea that any powerful character is a Mary-Sue. Heroes are only as good as the challenges that are put up against them. We're fine with physical challenges, and challenges of personal character, but when it comes to moral and ethical challenges I think it's hard to do without offending or confusing real-life sensibilities. (Thus why moral challenges are not typically used in shows with a younger audience.).

I do think that stories with "good" villains can be some of the most interesting stories out there, as they develop the protagonists in ways impossible to do with mere physical or emotional obstacles. I think Thrawn did that a bit in his original stories, and I hope they use him to do it again.

Just for general consumption, and because Thrawn is now A-Grade canon, I think it should be known that MicroJumps* are technically canon again too. They used them in the Clone Wars, they set a precedent for the Falcon's stunt at Starkiller base, and they were a key component in many of Thrawn's trademark tactical maneuvers.

I'm wondering, will we see Thrawn perform any of the CREEED-type tactics he was known for in the EU? Could the Rebels (story-wise) afford a few of the crippling defeats he was known for delivering and still have enough to contribute to the Rebellion? What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Precision_hyperspace_jump

--Somewhere on Coruscant after being taken by the Rebel Alliance--

Rebel Trooper : Sir....what's that behind that lamppost?

Rebel Commadner : Is...is that a Death Star?! THRAWWWWWWWWWN!!!

Thrawn is at his best when he's being Xanatos.

I've just spent the last week reading the Heir to the Empire and I have to say I don't see Thrawn as a Mary Sue in the slightest. Thrawn is not all powerful in fact he relies greatly on many countless people. Pallaeon, his crew, and for a bit Talon Karrde. He does the same thing the heroes do in many respects, he trusts those under and beside him whether or not because he's forced too does not matter. As others have said he's only a Mary Sue in the sense the author technically already had everything preordained since its a story, things happened in a particular way because thats what made and makes the story interesting.

Zahn had a tendency to go overboard with his characters in later writings, though...

What kind of BadGuy do you think he'll get to be?

An overpowered super-prescient Mary Sue if he's like how Zahn wrote him.

I think this term might get used in places it doesn't belong.

Here. This is a Mary Sue. The Mary Sue.

She is an unstoppable, unbeatable, unflinching personification of everything the author personally believes. She wins mostly because she can't lose.

(Well, she would if she weren't an amazing parody. )

This is a Thrawn. The Thrawn.

He's a powerful character, who wins battles mostly by thinking ahead more steps than his opponents and using information in clever ways. He wins because the author wrote him to win. Same as any hero, same as any villain. This does not make him a Sue.

He was built to counter the Rebel heroes, who's ability to win in most situations rested on their physical abilities. He was given just enough power by the author to provide an interesting challenge to the divinely-favored "good" characters.

He challenged their battle tactics by being a better strategist.

He challenged their ethical superiority by not being an overly cruel or wasteful villain.

He challenged their popular support in the reader by being James-bond-Sherlock-type cool.

And then he died, killed by a person and an event that flaws in his personality did not allow him to see coming.

Now don't get worked up, I'm not criticizing you personally or fan-rooting for Thrawn; what I'm criticizing is the idea that any powerful character is a Mary-Sue. Heroes are only as good as the challenges that are put up against them. We're fine with physical challenges, and challenges of personal character, but when it comes to moral and ethical challenges I think it's hard to do without offending or confusing real-life sensibilities. (Thus why moral challenges are not typically used in shows with a younger audience.).

I do think that stories with "good" villains can be some of the most interesting stories out there, as they develop the protagonists in ways impossible to do with mere physical or emotional obstacles. I think Thrawn did that a bit in his original stories, and I hope they use him to do it again.

I'm really happy to see you explain what a Mary Sue actually is. It's... Refreshing.

Now, all that said.

Would you consider Rey as such?

Now don't get worked up, I'm not criticizing you personally or fan-rooting for Thrawn; what I'm criticizing is the idea that any powerful character is a Mary-Sue. Heroes are only as good as the challenges that are put up against them. We're fine with physical challenges, and challenges of personal character, but when it comes to moral and ethical challenges I think it's hard to do without offending or confusing real-life sensibilities. (Thus why moral challenges are not typically used in shows with a younger audience.).

I do think that stories with "good" villains can be some of the most interesting stories out there, as they develop the protagonists in ways impossible to do with mere physical or emotional obstacles. I think Thrawn did that a bit in his original stories, and I hope they use him to do it again.

I'm not worked up. You say what a Mary Sue is in the first half, then prove he is in the second half.

'She wins because he can't lose."

"He wins because the author wrote him to win."

Right.

Call him a Mary Smurf then.

Anyway, he's still terrible, and I get tired people fawning and mewling about how great he is all the time. He's not great, he's literary garbage that should've perished along with the rest of the EU.

The Rebels crew has plenty of material to work with. They don't need to keep coming up with steaks to tie around the ugly kid's neck so the dog will play with him. Oh look, it's Ahsoka. Oh look, it's Darth Maul. Oh look, now there's Leia. When's the dancing chorus line of Firesprays going to show up? It's lazy writing, and it's getting more and more disappointing. The series shines when it does its own thing. It drops when things are shoehorned in.

I've just spent the last week reading the Heir to the Empire and I have to say I don't see Thrawn as a Mary Sue in the slightest. Thrawn is not all powerful in fact he relies greatly on many countless people. Pallaeon, his crew, and for a bit Talon Karrde. He does the same thing the heroes do in many respects, he trusts those under and beside him whether or not because he's forced too does not matter. As others have said he's only a Mary Sue in the sense the author technically already had everything preordained since its a story, things happened in a particular way because thats what made and makes the story interesting.

Thrawn wasn't a Mary Sue originally, the later works of Zahn and other EU writers made him an unstoppable omnipotent god sometimes doing bad things for greater good.

Original Thrawn wasn't omnipotent, he didn't win all of his battles, he got outsmarted a few times by the heroes, the perception of him as a "tactical genious" many times came from risky gambles and "we won't account for that in our plans because noone would be that insane to try it" line of thinking by his oponents, he needed help of a dangerous and unstable Dark Jedi clone, and even the final battle wasn't going his way when he got assasinated... and he died because he hadn't noticed Norghi were conspiring agaisnt him for a long time.

He was also clearly evil, cruel and with just as much regard to the lives of his subordinates as Vader, killing own crewmemebers for show.

If anybody were Mary Sues in the Thrawn series, it was Luke and Friends. Nothing at all challenged them, and you never felt fear for their safety. And honestly I got a little tired of the whole studying art to find their weaknesses thing. Just a cursory glance at all the art out there in museums, stores, and on street corners here will show such variety and differences that it's impossible to draw any conclusions at all for anything in the human psyche or methodologies.

If anybody were Mary Sues in the Thrawn series, it was Luke and Friends. Nothing at all challenged them, and you never felt fear for their safety. And honestly I got a little tired of the whole studying art to find their weaknesses thing. Just a cursory glance at all the art out there in museums, stores, and on street corners here will show such variety and differences that it's impossible to draw any conclusions at all for anything in the human psyche or methodologies.

It's just like Holmes' deductions - veeeery far fetched, when you stop to think about them, but because of how they are incorporated into the stories you don't think about them and they work well.