Yes, and that is the problem.

It's made for kids.

But everything that happens in this kids show becomes canon.

Even the stupid stuff that could only happen in a kids show.

This point is valid.

As opposed to the idiotic stuff that was written for adults?

Yes, and that is the problem.

It's made for kids.

But everything that happens in this kids show becomes canon.

Even the stupid stuff that could only happen in a kids show.

This point is valid.

I'm just not sure what kind of stupid stuff you're talking about. I mean, getting the help of little teddy bears with rock-tipped spears to fight an army with blasters and AT-ST support - oh, wait, that happened in the original trilogy , right, and the teddy bears beat the stormtroopers. Uhhh, how about the Death Star flying around a planet to get a clear shot at its moon instead of just blowing up the planet it's orbiting - oh, wait, that happened in the movies too, and it's the reason that the Empire lost their Death Star. Or how Aang decides to hide a letter from - wait, wrong series.

But in all seriousness, what 'stupid stuff that could only happen in kid's cartoons' are you talking about? Because when I hear that I tend to think that someone's already decided to hate something and are trying their hardest to find a real, rational reason to hate it - and failed.

I'm racking my brain, and the most I can think of is the idea that Ezra's broadcast near the end of season 1 would somehow magically attract enough attention from the populace to stir up trouble for the Empire. Even then, it's not like the Empire needed it as a REASON to hunt Hera's cell down, Hera had given them plenty of reason to do just that. Everything else is quite good; even though they use tropes (like this week's episode, oh, two bitter enemies trapped in [iNSERT SITUATION HERE] and learning the other is not so bad?) remember that this is intended for kids, most of whom probably haven't read the Epic of Gilgamesh and don't know that trope is literally older than Jesus.

SW: Rebels is not the best children's TV cartoon aimed at the 12-younger I've ever watched. Darkwing Duck, Avatar TLA, Dragon Ball, Gravity Falls, Slayers NEXT, the new 2012 TMNT, Batman the Animated Series, Fairy Tail, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, and quite a few others rank higher - though SWR is in young days yet compared to many of those.

But it has actual, honest-to-gods EFFORT put into it, with real writing, real character development, and real design, and has had moments which are insightful, which are hilarious, which are dramatic, which are universe-expanding. I can think of dozens - probably HUNDREDS, with a bit of time - of cartoons that have been far worse, with no effort whatsoever beyond the bare minimum of "Kids are stupid, what shiny moving objects can we put on the TV screen for 22 minutes so their parents can fix dinner?"

So, what's your beef with Rebels?

EDITED to remove unfair, inflammatory leading question - it's pefectly OK to dislike something, but it's best to know why and how. Hell, I hate Arrested Development despite my family's love-in for it and it took a while for me to articulate WHY.

I hate Always Sunny and any Tim & Eric show on Adult Swim, but other people seem to love them...

I don't know... I spend most of the time watching Rebels with a blank expression on my face and little to no engagement.

Maby I'm not enough of a kid at heart, but I highly doubt that considering what people say about me in general and the fact that I actually work with kids and teenagers every day (which kinda requires you to be a kid at heart).

I don't know... it's just not engaging me.

Feels too much like a kids show, still.

And that's a problem, when all of the stuff gets canonicized by simply existing in the show.

Stupid and illogical stuff that you'd expect from a kids show are now suddenly truth and canon in the rest of the SW universe as well, because it was in a kids show.

Kinda like if the old Ewok movies and the Droids cartoon was considered canon. (yes, I'm comparing it to those)

You know it IS a kids show right?

Yes, and that is the problem.

It's made for kids.

But everything that happens in this kids show becomes canon.

Even the stupid stuff that could only happen in a kids show.

Step 1: Drop that blank expression. Dude needs some popcorn and a Coke ASAP.

Step 2: Find inner child, take him/her along with you. Remember your manners, and share the popcorn.

Step 3: Relax, and let go of your hatred. (But put it in a safe place so you can find it afterwards.)

Step 4: Re-watch Terminator 2.

Yes, and that is the problem.

It's made for kids.

But everything that happens in this kids show becomes canon.

Even the stupid stuff that could only happen in a kids show.

This point is valid.

I'm just not sure what kind of stupid stuff you're talking about. I mean, getting the help of little teddy bears with rock-tipped spears to fight an army with blasters and AT-ST support - oh, wait, that happened in the original trilogy , right, and the teddy bears beat the stormtroopers. Uhhh, how about the Death Star flying around a planet to get a clear shot at its moon instead of just blowing up the planet it's orbiting - oh, wait, that happened in the movies too, and it's the reason that the Empire lost their Death Star. Or how Aang decides to hide a letter from - wait, wrong series.

But in all seriousness, what 'stupid stuff that could only happen in kid's cartoons' are you talking about? Because when I hear that I tend to think that someone's already decided to hate something and are trying their hardest to find a real, rational reason to hate it - and failed.

I'm racking my brain, and the most I can think of is the idea that Ezra's broadcast near the end of season 1 would somehow magically attract enough attention from the populace to stir up trouble for the Empire. Even then, it's not like the Empire needed it as a REASON to hunt Hera's cell down, Hera had given them plenty of reason to do just that. Everything else is quite good; even though they use tropes (like this week's episode, oh, two bitter enemies trapped in [iNSERT SITUATION HERE] and learning the other is not so bad?) remember that this is intended for kids, most of whom probably haven't read the Epic of Gilgamesh and don't know that trope is literally older than Jesus.

SW: Rebels is not the best children's TV cartoon aimed at the 12-younger I've ever watched. Darkwing Duck, Avatar TLA, Dragon Ball, Gravity Falls, Slayers NEXT, the new 2012 TMNT, Batman the Animated Series, Fairy Tail, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, and quite a few others rank higher - though SWR is in young days yet compared to many of those.

But it has actual, honest-to-gods EFFORT put into it, with real writing, real character development, and real design, and has had moments which are insightful, which are hilarious, which are dramatic, which are universe-expanding. I can think of dozens - probably HUNDREDS, with a bit of time - of cartoons that have been far worse, with no effort whatsoever beyond the bare minimum of "Kids are stupid, what shiny moving objects can we put on the TV screen for 22 minutes so their parents can fix dinner?"

So, what's your beef with Rebels?

EDITED to remove unfair, inflammatory leading question - it's pefectly OK to dislike something, but it's best to know why and how. Hell, I hate Arrested Development despite my family's love-in for it and it took a while for me to articulate WHY.

Oh don't get me started on those bloody teddybears. (someone already did in the Edge of the Empire forums, a while back).

As for why they didn't blow up the planet to shoot at the rebel base, simple... the gun takes a long time to recharge.

But sure, I'll answer your question of what 'stupid stuff that could only happen in a kids cartoon' that I'm talking about.

Listed in no particular order, and far from a complete list:

• Whales that swim in the vacuum of space.
• Darth Vader, the second in command of the entire empire bothering to show up in person to take care of a small band of rag-tag resistance fighters who have been making trouble in one measly system.
• Grand Moff Tarkin showing up to take care... well, you get the point. The two most powerful people in the entire galaxy after the Emperor himself, are showing up IN PERSON to handle what can only be described as a minor insurrection in a remote part of the outer rim. That's like getting the Vice President and the Secretary of Defence showing up in a small town in Iowa because some local militia group has decided to sabotage a few shipments of military rations. Yes, the actions of the Rebels in the show warrant military action. But not from the highest ranking people in the galaxy. It just makes no sense.
• WHY DOES C3PO AND R2-D2 HAVE TO SHOW UP EVERY GORRAM WHERE!? (sorry, pet peeve)
• Apparantly the Empire cannot track a single ship that flies up from one town on a planet and then lands on another part of the planet. Apparantly, all you have to do to get away from the Empire, is to fly a bit farther away on the same planet you're on. In a spaceship. While they have Star Destroyers in orbit. And TIE Fighters patrolling. And all kinds of communication towers available.

  But nope, just go straight up to the clouds, take a left, fly a bit and then go down and land, and you'll be perfectly fine. No wonder the Empire can't stop the Rebel Alliance.

There's more, but I really can't be bothered. Since you seem to think there's nothing childish about the show in the first place, I doubt anything I say will change that.

Oh don't get me started on those bloody teddybears. (someone already did in the Edge of the Empire forums, a while back).

As for why they didn't blow up the planet to shoot at the rebel base, simple... the gun takes a long time to recharge.

But sure, I'll answer your question of what 'stupid stuff that could only happen in a kids cartoon' that I'm talking about.

Listed in no particular order, and far from a complete list:

• Whales that swim in the vacuum of space. Not a lot less plausible than asteroid worms, it fits into the universe.
• Darth Vader, the second in command of the entire empire bothering to show up in person to take care of a small band of rag-tag resistance fighters who have been making trouble in one measly system. A Jedi is part of the group and his chief inquisitor failed, so he investigated. Very reasonable.
• Grand Moff Tarkin showing up to take care... well, you get the point. The two most powerful people in the entire galaxy after the Emperor himself, are showing up IN PERSON to handle what can only be described as a minor insurrection in a remote part of the outer rim. That's like getting the Vice President and the Secretary of Defence showing up in a small town in Iowa because some local militia group has decided to sabotage a few shipments of military rations. Yes, the actions of the Rebels in the show warrant military action. But not from the highest ranking people in the galaxy. It just makes no sense. I will agree with you there, but it also isn't something too stupid. One could argue that Lothal was high priority because of Sienar.
• WHY DOES C3PO AND R2-D2 HAVE TO SHOW UP EVERY GORRAM WHERE!? (sorry, pet peeve)
• Apparantly the Empire cannot track a single ship that flies up from one town on a planet and then lands on another part of the planet. Apparantly, all you have to do to get away from the Empire, is to fly a bit farther away on the same planet you're on. In a spaceship. While they have Star Destroyers in orbit. And TIE Fighters patrolling. And all kinds of communication towers available.

  But nope, just go straight up to the clouds, take a left, fly a bit and then go down and land, and you'll be perfectly fine. No wonder the Empire can't stop the Rebel Alliance. A point has been made that the Ghost can scramble its signature, making it really hard to track.

There's more, but I really can't be bothered. Since you seem to think there's nothing childish about the show in the first place, I doubt anything I say will change that.

No one said there is nothing childish about the show, we all acknowledge it is a kids show, but those things aren't as outrageous as you make them appear to be. I can get people not being interested in it, but it doesn't damage the property at all.

Yeah, no reason at all for Vader to show up when his Grand Inquisitor is killed and a Star Destroyer is destroyed. Especially when it is Tarkin's.

Hate to break it to you guys, but Rebels didn't add space whales to the canon. That was the decidedly not kid-friendly Darth Vader comic. It's a great series...

What I want to know is where that construction project has gone and how this will will tie in with Rogue One?

Love all the character stuff too ☺

What I want to know is where that construction project has gone and how this will will tie in with Rogue One?

The construction project was obviously the first Death Star. It's already been stated in other sources that the Death Star was built in orbit around Geonosis. And the fact that the Geonosians are all dead implies that they finished building it.

What I want to know is where that construction project has gone and how this will will tie in with Rogue One?

The construction project was obviously the first Death Star. It's already been stated in other sources that the Death Star was built in orbit around Geonosis. And the fact that the Geonosians are all dead implies that they finished building it.

I smell cover up. How could a proton torpedo blow up a whole death star!?

Proton torpedoes can't melt main reactors!

Did know it was the Death Star MK1.

And I could have swarn that one of those pieces of debris said thermal exhaust port cover.Do not remove.

• Whales that swim in the vacuum of space.
• Darth Vader, the second in command of the entire empire bothering to show up in person to take care of a small band of rag-tag resistance fighters who have been making trouble in one measly system.
• Grand Moff Tarkin showing up to take care... well, you get the point. The two most powerful people in the entire galaxy after the Emperor himself, are showing up IN PERSON to handle what can only be described as a minor insurrection in a remote part of the outer rim. That's like getting the Vice President and the Secretary of Defence showing up in a small town in Iowa because some local militia group has decided to sabotage a few shipments of military rations. Yes, the actions of the Rebels in the show warrant military action. But not from the highest ranking people in the galaxy. It just makes no sense.
• WHY DOES C3PO AND R2-D2 HAVE TO SHOW UP EVERY GORRAM WHERE!? (sorry, pet peeve)
• Apparantly the Empire cannot track a single ship that flies up from one town on a planet and then lands on another part of the planet. Apparantly, all you have to do to get away from the Empire, is to fly a bit farther away on the same planet you're on. In a spaceship. While they have Star Destroyers in orbit. And TIE Fighters patrolling. And all kinds of communication towers available.

  But nope, just go straight up to the clouds, take a left, fly a bit and then go down and land, and you'll be perfectly fine. No wonder the Empire can't stop the Rebel Alliance.

I am not trying to change your opinion, because changing opinions is a very difficult thing to do. But consider this?

- Empire Strikes Back had a worm that chilled in the vacuum of space.

- Darth Vader is a bit more of an executioner then a command of anything. When he's present he has the freedom to take control of whatever assest he needs but his role in the government of the Empire is "Hey, I need this one specific thing dealt with" or "Hey, I need this person dead, like, really dead.". It's canon that he personally hunted down jedi after the clone wars, why is it weird he was sent to try and kill two more when the Inquisitor failed?

- Lothal had important military assets, such as the new Tie Advanced Prototype and the production of it. I agree they could have sent a better General or Moff out there, but he is the most experienced in fighting rebels and currently all he was doing was flying secretly in some chunk of space waiting to reveal the Death Star. (if you read his book)

- They're droids. Who are owned by an important part of another rebel cell. They were sent as messengers to a different rebel cell, because they are droid and droids are less recognizable then sentient species.

- I'll agree with that. It's also stupid how Zeb is supposed to be one of the very few Lasats, yet no one instantly recognizes him as a wanted rebel.

Maybe everyone is saying "I swear, I swear that's the Lasat on the wanted poster. Not that I think all lasats look the same. I'm not racist... Am I?" And by the time they work through that conundrum the rebels are already gone.

- I'll agree with that. It's also stupid how Zeb is supposed to be one of the very few Lasats, yet no one instantly recognizes him as a wanted rebel.

Maybe everyone is saying "I swear, I swear that's the Lasat on the wanted poster. Not that I think all lasats look the same. I'm not racist... Am I?" And by the time they work through that conundrum the rebels are already gone.

I want to see this scene now.

Not that I don't like those shows, but I also like The Tick, Batman the animated series and other kids shows.

But this show simply doesn't engage me.

It's simplistic and uninventive, in my honest opinion, and simply doesn't bridge the gap into the adult writing that some other supposed kids shows do.

No, I feel that this show is almost entirely predictive and overtly dumbed down for the kids.

Sorry, but that's how I feel, and I know I'm not alone in that (however, most of the people who feel that way won't be in this thread in the first place).

And it really sucks. Because kids are not as stupid as the show writers seem to assume. They can handle stories with loads more depth and complexity.

But I'm starting to think that the people in charge of this show simply aren't capable of doing that.

Just for the record:

SW Rebels doesn't make the cut for my personal Top 5 cartoons either. Gargoyles, LoGH, GitS SAC, Batman TAS and Gravity Falls beat it easily on any level it might try gain ground.

As a matter of fact it might even only scarcely make it into my Top 10, if at all.

But as a weekly light weighted popcorn entertainment space opera it definitely hit the spot. What it has speaking for itself is

• that it clearly wants to repair the damage ripped into the 'verse by GL and his gorram childish and simple minded Clone Wars scenario (aka Prequels)
• it hits the Nostalgia-button pretty sufficiently
• and was at its debut the only valid show to watch which could entertain you sufficiently while on the wait for the build-up towards the Big Screen Disney SW franchise.
• it also delivers discriminable characters, which might be hampered in their actions by the aim for the low aged target audience and pleasing the more conservative producers sitting in Disneys "Congregation of Faith" but are still believable in both actions and motivations

While it may run on a tighter budget than the Clone Wars had, it is still better than anything that had been produced of Star Wars for the silver screen and should be accepted as what it is intended to be:

• an apology to the fans which had to suffer through the dork age of the Prequels (due to rectifying lots of nonsense what was retconned there and then into the 'verse)
• and a soft entry spot for a new generation of watchers

And in my opinion it succeeds quite well in what it does..

I can get people not being interested in it, but it doesn't damage the property at all.

In your opinion, sure.

Really enjoyed this episode. Was good (if not original) to see another side to the antagonist. I'm really warming to Kallus as a character and hope they continue to add depth to the Imperial side of things. I know it will never by the focus and things need to be kept at a level kids won't get confused by shades of grey though.

Kallus seems to be a true believer in the message if the Empire. Delivering g peace and stability to a chaotic galaxy. Whatever he saw on Lassat he has put down to war but with a barren Geonosis to mull over and what appears to be solid respect for Zeb, I think he has an I tereting path to tread. If they do the whole redemmed antagonist thing that seems to be hinted at, I hope they tell the story well.

I was mad that Zeb didn't arrest him.

And it feels like they did a turnaround on Kallus's characterization from season 1.

Not every villain needs to be redeemable.

I was mad that Zeb didn't arrest him.

And it feels like they did a turnaround on Kallus's characterization from season 1.

Not every villain needs to be redeemable.

(Ok, I just want to see Kallus' ARGHKITTENS painted blue :>)

I was mad that Zeb didn't arrest him.

And it feels like they did a turnaround on Kallus's characterization from season 1.

Not every villain needs to be redeemable.

That's a very non-chri... I mean non-jedi thing to say. Remember, Darth "Literally Hitler" Vader redeemed himself at the end.

(Ok, I just want to see Kallus' ARGHKITTENS painted blue :>)

See, I've always seen the Emperor as a more Hitler-like character. That would make Vader Heinrich Himmler to me.

I was mad that Zeb didn't arrest him.

And it feels like they did a turnaround on Kallus's characterization from season 1.

Not every villain needs to be redeemable.

I don't think they are trying to get him to redeem himself. I think they are just trying to flesh out what was a very dull bad guy.

Before this his reason for doing the bad things he did was because he was the bad guy and that's a weak villian right there. This way he has a more human side and we get to see that he's doing what he thinks is right.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Vader = Himmler? Fitting.

Then Tarkin would be Goebbels.

And Göring? Admiral Ozzel, I guess..!

Vader = Himmler? Fitting.

Then Tarkin would be Goebbels.

And Göring? Admiral Ozzel, I guess..!

Thrawn = Rommel?