This episode's Rebels Recon.

Sadly, it only really talks about Cham, and not about the super sweet carrier.

"

Also, Torpedoes out the Bomb Chute? Wtf?

I'm not sure if this is a new development, but apparently torpedoes are now balls of energy instead of physical warheads. Just like in Star Trek. Maybe it was always this way in the movies, and they just moved to fast for me to notice.

I think it was just a call back to the Star Wars Arcade game. The Ghost's torpedoes don't look like that.

I'm not sure if this is a new development, but apparently torpedoes are now balls of energy instead of physical warheads. Just like in Star Trek. Maybe it was always this way in the movies, and they just moved to fast for me to notice.

Eh....I think I'd say almost exactly the opposite.

I mean, 'Star Trek II' - right? They actually "bury" Spock in a torpedo casing they fire into the Genesis planet. As in - Star Trek torpedoes are actually pretty massive physical objects. TNG Trek doubles down on that by having them be probes, just based on interchangeable internal parts.

While Star Wars torpedoes have been heavily-energy weapons (with what is apparently a very small physical component) pretty much since day 1 - watch the Proton Torpedo attacks on the Death Star in the '77 Star Wars. Very tiny warheads, there!

(Although I'm not sure either series really presents them as PURE energy weapons - but Star Trek torpedoes are definitely a HECK of a lot more physically massive than Star Wars torpedoes)

I mean, 'Star Trek II' - right? They actually "bury" Spock in a torpedo casing they fire into the Genesis planet. As in - Star Trek torpedoes are actually pretty massive physical objects. TNG Trek doubles down on that by having them be probes, just based on interchangeable internal parts.

That seems right according to the wiki I guess.

Even as late as Star Trek: The Motion Picture , Andrew Probert did not envision the photon torpedo to be a capsule, as he says in his 2005 Trekplace interview: " I envisioned them as what we saw during the TV era, they were glowing globs of plasma or some sort of energy. They weren't giant capsules. I envision them as big, glowy, dangerous blobs of... scariness. "

But even though they're physical tubes on the ship, whenever fired, they always look like energy bursts . I always just assumed that the tube contained the things that exploded into the actual projectile and it was always some kind of explosive energy inside a force field.

Doubletalk Scifi time: When inert, proton/photon torpedoes are a solid shell. When fired, however, they are triggered and turned into the glowy balls of death we see and love - of COURSE they're not glowy balls of death inside a ship, that'd be stupid even for a starship that regularly throws its people around the bridge yet refuses to install seat belts.

You guys do realize the Death Star Laser can be used to shoot at Starships to... and In rapid sucession actually.

Not on the first Death Star.

That was specifically mentioned to be a DSII thing only. Something about a refocusing crystal or somesuch.

The Death Star novel does have the first Death Star fire on a Rebel carrier, destroying it, shortly before the movie begins.

Things change over time.

You guys do realize the Death Star Laser can be used to shoot at Starships to... and In rapid sucession actually.

Not on the first Death Star.

That was specifically mentioned to be a DSII thing only. Something about a refocusing crystal or somesuch.

The Death Star novel does have the first Death Star fire on a Rebel carrier, destroying it, shortly before the movie begins.

Things change over time.

Which was a Lucrehulk that had a bunch of X-Wings, and apparently their plan was similar to the Yavin attack.

Everything in that sentence is also stupid.

The point is - the idea that the DS2 had something special that allowed it to do what no other superlaser design before it could do and target small ships - is one that was dumped fairly early.

Even the Death Star Prototype from the Jedi Academy Trilogy could do it. (and the Star Wars Rebellion version of the Death Star, which retained the Thermal Exhaust Port vulnerability).

So what was Cham's ship? That thing was amazing and I REALLLLLLY hope they put it in X-Wing! A Single-Ship-Carrier would be so awesome! Deploy 1 docked ship after you complete a maneuver!

Also the idea of loading up bombs on a ship and crashing it into the enemy - kamikaze tactics would be pretty sweet as well.

You guys do realize the Death Star Laser can be used to shoot at Starships to... and In rapid sucession actually.

Not on the first Death Star.

That was specifically mentioned to be a DSII thing only. Something about a refocusing crystal or somesuch.

The Death Star novel does have the first Death Star fire on a Rebel carrier, destroying it, shortly before the movie begins.

Things change over time.

Which was a Lucrehulk that had a bunch of X-Wings, and apparently their plan was similar to the Yavin attack.

Everything in that sentence is also stupid.

Are you saying that a plan to use xwings to blow up a superweapon as a recycled plot element is stupid?

So what was Cham's ship? That thing was amazing and I REALLLLLLY hope they put it in X-Wing! A Single-Ship-Carrier would be so awesome! Deploy 1 docked ship after you complete a maneuver!

Also the idea of loading up bombs on a ship and crashing it into the enemy - kamikaze tactics would be pretty sweet as well.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nu-class%20attack%20shuttle

On the topic of the tonight's eposode, was Hera's accent reversion really necessary? That was the only thing I actually disliked about the episode next to Cham being an absolute jerk.

I took it as a kind of shorthand for indicating they were speaking Twi'lek without the writers having to concoct a Twi'lek language.

In an ideal world I'd throw Good vs evil duology (sp) into the trash right there with it. Yeah I get it, in context of the movies it's good vs evil, protagonist vs antagonist, but really that can be played with. In the old pre disney EU Palpatine was shown as a complete psychopath growing up if I recall, possibly also a product of his family. A lot of that needs further review.

What if there was this perfect knight. This complete expy of Lancelot Du Lac in Star Wars form. A perfect warrior, no, a Hero. A savior.

What if he/she fought terrorists.

What if those terrorists were the Rebels?

I dunno guys. I really dislike the whole evil empire just because the leader is evil thing. To me it seems overly childish. Morality isn't even shades of grey, it's infinite colour.

I'm going with the 'it's a movie crowd'.

The good guy, Luke, wore white and the bad guy, Vader, wore black. The opening scrawl in the very first movie, as VanorDM pointed out, said 'Evil Galactic Empire'. They were bad.

But the Republic never built a weapon that could destroy a whole planet, committed genocide or enslaved whole races .

Umm but they Senate did stand buy and have endless debates while the people Naboo were essentially taken into slavery.

Of course in reality (not the movies but life) few things are truly as starkly defined as the opening scrawl of the first movie. But it is a movie! Sure we can debate it's depth if we choose. We even saw Vader's humanity in the Return of the Jedi and clearly some members of the Republic Senate were corrupt.

And possibly this makes a good Poli-Sci debate since.............. drum roll................ you're both right.

Nevertheless I like Avatar since it is a nice, clean. simple plot of cowboys and Indians in space. You see well defined money grubbing bad guys and the poor not so helpless natives. But come on guys. If there were to be a realistic sequel the so-called bad guys would simply nuke them from space and mine with less effort in what was left. But that wouldn't be a fun movie.

In the Star Wars movies the emperor and empire is evil. Period, done, there isn't a reasonable debate otherwise.

However, outside of the movies and reviewing the motivations of the characters we see depth and nuance. A corrupt Senate, Jedi claiming in the first movie to be peacekeepers that can't fight for someone only yo become the generals leading the war; all the while recruiting and indoctrinating younglings (children) in their cause. In the movies we don't care if the Emperor is redeemable, in fact we hope he isn't so we have a proper antagonist to hate. Outside of the movies... well we can speculate.

Question: Was Snape the real hero of the Harry Potter series or a villain? Was he redeemed in the last show like Vader or long before that and hid it from view. We can go on and on but I still liked the movie.

So what was Cham's ship? That thing was amazing and I REALLLLLLY hope they put it in X-Wing! A Single-Ship-Carrier would be so awesome! Deploy 1 docked ship after you complete a maneuver!

Also the idea of loading up bombs on a ship and crashing it into the enemy - kamikaze tactics would be pretty sweet as well.

"After performing a maneuver, if you are touching another ship, deal that ship 1 face-down damage card for each equipped [Missile],[Torpedo] and [bomb] upgrade on your ship. Then destroy your ship."

So what was Cham's ship? That thing was amazing and I REALLLLLLY hope they put it in X-Wing! A Single-Ship-Carrier would be so awesome! Deploy 1 docked ship after you complete a maneuver!

Also the idea of loading up bombs on a ship and crashing it into the enemy - kamikaze tactics would be pretty sweet as well.

"After performing a maneuver, if you are touching another ship, deal that ship 1 face-down damage card for each equipped [Missile],[Torpedo] and [bomb] upgrade on your ship. Then destroy your ship."

To preserve the intent of Extra Munitions: "After performing a maneuver, if you are touching an enemy ship, you may discard any number of equipped [bomb] upgrades or [missile] or [torp] secondary weapons. If you do, the ship you are touching suffers one damage plus one damage for every card discarded in this way. Then destroy your ship."

I feel like Rebels has actually caught a groove after a season and a half of dreck. I still have fundamental problems with Ezra's importance to the early Rebellion, but the scripts have gotten better and that's all that matters to me at the end of the day.

Too long to quote Ken At Sunrise but yes that's about right. It's all about alternate interpretations.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternativeCharacterInterpretation

I particularly like playing with these (you may have noticed) not just to be a contrarian, but rather because narrative by nature is always going to be from a particular point of view.

I know the Empire is the Evil Empire, but I'd like to know WHY it's the evil Empire.

Now, blowing up planets, banning Tacos, that stupid kinect game and enslaving Wookiees are all good answers. But they aren't enough.

Killing off the Jedi? Hell the Jedi themselves had issues.

Now, I get Vanor's points completely. Hell I might even agree with them, but I like to go in further depth. I like to treat Star Wars as a one sided history, I like to mess with perspective.

This is why I made the comment comparing the US to the Evil Empire. It was deliberately inflammatory (and got me a warning, LOL). Do I believe they are? Of course not. But really As Obi-Wan points out, it all depends on your point of view.

I'd like to get really in depth into the psychology behind the Empire, all echelons.

Could you do it in another thread, though. This thread already has issues of going completely off the rails.

"

Also, Torpedoes out the Bomb Chute? Wtf?

I'm not sure if this is a new development, but apparently torpedoes are now balls of energy instead of physical warheads. Just like in Star Trek. Maybe it was always this way in the movies, and they just moved to fast for me to notice.

I think it was just a call back to the Star Wars Arcade game. The Ghost's torpedoes don't look like that.

Well, there's more than one kind of torpedo, right? Because the Ghost appears to launch Proton torpedoes, and I'm pretty sure that TIE Bomber can launch multiple different kinds. Those looked like Ion Torpedoes to me, which makes sense if they were trying to recapture the carrier...

Could you do it in another thread, though. This thread already has issues of going completely off the rails.

Already said I was gonna, the above was more about explaining myself.

Too long to quote Ken At Sunrise but yes that's about right. It's all about alternate interpretations.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternativeCharacterInterpretation

I particularly like playing with these (you may have noticed) not just to be a contrarian, but rather because narrative by nature is always going to be from a particular point of view.

I know the Empire is the Evil Empire, but I'd like to know WHY it's the evil Empire.

Now, blowing up planets, banning Tacos, that stupid kinect game and enslaving Wookiees are all good answers. But they aren't enough.

Killing off the Jedi? Hell the Jedi themselves had issues.

Now, I get Vanor's points completely. Hell I might even agree with them, but I like to go in further depth. I like to treat Star Wars as a one sided history, I like to mess with perspective.

This is why I made the comment comparing the US to the Evil Empire. It was deliberately inflammatory (and got me a warning, LOL). Do I believe they are? Of course not. But really As Obi-Wan points out, it all depends on your point of view.

I'd like to get really in depth into the psychology behind the Empire, all echelons.

It is a fascinating topic.

"

Also, Torpedoes out the Bomb Chute? Wtf?

I'm not sure if this is a new development, but apparently torpedoes are now balls of energy instead of physical warheads. Just like in Star Trek. Maybe it was always this way in the movies, and they just moved to fast for me to notice.

I think it was just a call back to the Star Wars Arcade game. The Ghost's torpedoes don't look like that.

Well, there's more than one kind of torpedo, right? Because the Ghost appears to launch Proton torpedoes, and I'm pretty sure that TIE Bomber can launch multiple different kinds. Those looked like Ion Torpedoes to me, which makes sense if they were trying to recapture the carrier...

^^This^^

If interested go post to Evil in Star Wars on the Off Topic form.

Another thoroughly enjoyable episode, this time managing to merge some great character work with a plot that furthers one of the central story arcs of the season.

Interesting that Hera found and restored Chopper when she was younger. That begs the question of exactly how he got that... um... slightly psychotic personality that he has. And also where he came from originally... A story there, perhaps?

Nice to see that Cham never changes as well, and I continue to love the Kanan/Hera relationship massively. And so does Freddie Prinze Jr, if his mini-interview in Rebels Recon is any guide...

None of this is ABOUT THE IMPERIAL LIGHT CARRIER!!!!

Databank Entry is out.

Officially called the Quasar Fire -class Cruiser-Carrier. Though still referred to as an Imperial Light Carrier(which sounds better, because wtf is a Cruiser-Carrier?)