6 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

Is there currently a "canon" rank system?

As far as I can tell, no. A simple binary “canon” or “legends” classification.

15 minutes ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

The rank plaque of three reds and three blues is actually analogues to Imperial Army Colonel and Imperial Navy Captain, rather than Commander. And can be extrapolated to Colonel in the ISB.

The RotJ rank badge gaff was a huge disappointment though, as that would have help codify ranks in Canon.

Colonel Yularen had no tank cylinders while the officers on the DS2 have either one or two, and Captain Piett had one. All these officers would have had the equivalent of the three red/three blue insignia with the number of cylinders also helping to indicate rank.

according to this (from SWRPG by West End?) a ship’s captain is outranked by commander, major, colonel, but none of that seems to make sense at all with what we see on film.

and here’s Gen. Pycelle, I mean Veers, with 4r, 4b and one cylinder. If the main difference between general and colonel is one more cylinder being the junior rank, then one more cylinder for the 3r,3b bars would mean the good Moff Jerjerrod is wearing the rank of Commander.

but then all this proves is that ESB is the best movie.

Guys GUYS! Obviously, the Rebel alliance tried to claim Lothal as their first major victory, but the Purrgils stepped (floated?) forward saying, “Oh no you di’’nt! Nuh-uh! We done went in there and blowed up all dem Star Destroyaz, you guys di’’nt do jack! This here be a Purrgil victory, yo!” and thus Lothal went down in history as the first Purrgil victory (of many) against the Empire.

@GrimmyV

Ugggh that chart was the same time as the Executor’s five Mile fallacy. I know who made that chart too. ??‍♂️

My jaw hurts looking at it.

If we use only A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back here are my best interpretations of the flag and command officers. This is only going by the movies and not new Disney Canon.

In order of rank

Grand Moff Tarkin

(Fleet) Admiral Ozzel ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

General Tagge ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Major General Bast ⭐️⭐️

Major General Romodi ⭐️⭐️

(ANH and Rogue One and is the only officer other than Grand Moff Tarkin from the conference room to be in both those movies)

Major General Veers ⭐️⭐️

Major General Weiss from Imperial Assault ⭐️⭐️

Commodore Admiral Motti ⭐️

Brigadier General Cass ⭐️

Colonel Yularen (seen with his Deputy Officer, Evax who wear the correct sable colored cap)

Captain Piett prior to promotion

Captain Needa

Commander Praji

Lt. Commander Tanbris

Lt. Commander Jir

Lt. Commander Childsen

Unnamed Blizzard Force Stormtrooper Officer

Army Captain Bewil

Lt. Sheckil

(has a famous Bounty Hunter twin)

Lt. Suba

Lt. Venka

For some reason, I thought I remember reading in 'Lost Stars' maybe, that the plaque of colored squares was simply an access-control mechanism. So while the code cylinders were for encoding/decoding information (which we specifically saw in Rebels), the plaques were more just for entering/exiting rooms or seeing at a quick glance the sort of clearance someone would have.

Hopefully not mis-remembering that too much, as it made a lot of sense and explained why there would be situations where someone's badge doesn't match their title. I mean, usually your rank is going to be the determining factor in where you can go and what you can see, so it would generally be a fairly close corollary between the badges and ranks. But not always - you could imagine a situation where, say on a battle station under major construction that doesn't quite have working access control systems yet, everyone is just issued the same badge to ensure they have the needed access to all parts of the construction project.

On 3/11/2018 at 2:34 PM, FlyingAnchors said:

(Please do not take this sithpost seriously)

3 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

(has a famous Bounty Hunter twin)

Nah, that’s just the original proof that Boba was indeed a clone. Or that at least some imperials were.

21 hours ago, SabineKey said:

So, the fact that Mom Mothma denied their requests (to the frustration of the Ghost crew) doesn’t leave it open for the Ghost crew could step away from the Alliance to deal with something personal? You can also note the attitude of the Ghost crew towards the Rebel Alliance when they liberated Lothal. They really weren’t interested in Alliance aid as they felt they did the work without the Alliance.

You are also forgetting Saw and his Partisans. Do you think Saw’s shady tactics only started after he was booted out of the Alliance? He was an extremist to begin with and I can guarantee you the likes of Mothma and Organa wouldn’t be claiming credit for his actions.

Now, compare what happened on Lothal with Scarif. Scarif was won by the heroic actions and sacrifices of (relatively) normal people. Lothal had a large dose of mystisum tied into its liberation, from Jedi aid (which the Alliance no longer had), force sensitive wolves and space whales (which they can’t control). Does it sound like a good idea to take credit for something you can’t recreate? I know Rebellions are built on hope, but false hope like “we liberated Lothal” when they had no influence in the proceedings can turn to poison.

And finally, the reason Scarif is a Rebel Alliance victory is because they actually committed forces. Yes, the Rogue One crew was unsactioned. Raddus too. And if they had failed, it would have been a misguided, rogue op that wouldn’t have been listed in the Alliance’s exploits. But upon hearing the opportunity, the remaining Rebel leaders threw what they could to aid in the Battle(primarily Mothma and Organa) resulting in success. The Alliance did no such thing in the final liberation of Lothal, thus have no stake in the success that was obtained.

Edit: To answer your WW2 point, the USA was involved with China for shipping them weapons. However, can the US claim Chinese victories as their own when it was Chinese actions and blood that obtained it?

Jyn's mission was also something personal. She was going after a thing mentioned in a message from her dead daddy that NOBODY alive could show actually existed (outside of the Imperials of course). The Ghost crew had a long standing mission on Lothal with the Rebellion. They initially failed to meet their objectives and were forced off the planet. So the fact that this same cell manages to get back onto said planet and kick the Empire off of it, albeit with some massive help from space whales, doesn't count because they didn't meet some time factor? Insurgencies don't work like that. Insurgencies CAN'T work like that because such a strict hierarchy would again inevitably result in making it easier to track the command and destroy it.

Lothal was liberated with about as much of a force as was initially dedicated to the mission. If the Ghost crew had managed to drive off the Empire before they were ever driven off of Lothal, would that have been a Rebel victory? Would it have not counted unless Fulcrum gave them the mission word for word? Let me tell you something. Insurgencies take whatever 'good' press they can get. It wouldn't matter if there were half a dozen folks with glow sticks, a herd of bantha, and an overly enthusiastic Tribble that got lost somewhere in space and time, if a planet is yanked from the Empire's sphere of influence, the Rebellion is going to capitalize on that. Why wouldn't they? It shows that the Empire CAN be defeated. It would inspire more members to join or at least inspire people to give material support. Nobody would expect this to be a chain reaction resulting in the Empire being overthrown, but they'd see the Rebellion as the force to be reckoned with. An ENTIRE Imperial garrison went up in flames in a single day. How stupid would the Rebellion be to let that slip by?

Trying to rope in Saw's group with the Ghost crew is a red herring at best. Saw wanted nothing to do with the Rebellion just as much as the Rebellion wanted nothing to do with Saw. The Ghost crew sacrificed one of their own to activate the shield generator to protect the populace. Saw likely would have instantly used the dome's guns to fire upon the ISDs even if it meant them crashing down onto the city. Hera went right back to the Rebel HQ and was accepted with open arms. There is no correlation between the two.

Sabine said it herself, with the victory on Lothal, 'the small Rebellion had become bold'. During the mission they addressed themselves with titles such as 'Commander' and 'General'. If they didn't consider themselves part of the Alliance, what were they a Command and General of? In fact, the ONLY evidence that the Alliance was not a part of this mission was ONE line from Zeb. Are we to take his word as binding to the Rebellion at large? He was being grumpy like Zeb always is. Without the space whales, the mission was only at a stalemate. The garrison was still locked inside, Thrawn was keeping the Rebels from launching, but the shields were keeping Thrawn from firing on the city. Ezra had destroyed the gate, the Emperor's goal was ruined, and there was a lightsaber wielding Force user loose on Thrawn's flagship before Moby Decks arrived. This was a standard Rebel operation through and through with one unforeseen fluke bringing about the victory. Zeb said it himself 'Let's go Rebels!'. They didn't consider themselves renegades, they were still talking like members of a bigger organization. That evidence alone trounces a throwaway line by a character who is prone to gruff exaggeration.

And finally, the U.S. certainly could claim part of the victory that China obtained considering the arms and pilots that they shipped over eventually became the Flying Tigers. Nearly 300 Japanese pilots would be happy to attest to their effectiveness if they hadn't been shot down. Those were bombers heading to Chinese towns and IJA fighters and pilots that wouldn't be available to fight after the war.

8 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Present the contradictions, please.

For outside material, let me pull in some facts from the Darth Vader comic. In the comic, Vader is forced to compete with others to remain the Emperor's apprentice while also trying to have a private investigation into Luke's origins. During this, he uses Mercenaries, bounty hunters, and his own private droid strike force. By your logic, what he is doing still should be counted as Imperial actions, despite him working against the Empire in some places and his motives being purely personal. See? One can be a part of something, and yet still take actions that are entirely their own.

And once again, the side who claims that the ending doesn't work forget about the Partisans. They're rebels, but not part of the Rebel Alliance, meaning that attributing all rebel activity to the Alliance is a gross misrepresentation of facts. There were also other, minor victories over the Empire in both the proceeding seasons of Rebels and books like Thrawn, so some distinction between people rebelling against the empire and the Rebel Alliance must be considered. Do you have an answer for this?

You might think I'm just arguing semantics, but to me, the devil is in the details. You might not like it, but that's poor justification for claiming it doesn't matter.

The Ghost crew wasn't working against the Rebels on this mission. Luke wasn't a deserter for going to Dagobah instead of joining up with the fleet, he was working in his own way to further the Rebel cause. The Rebels and Empire are polar opposites in this regard. The Empire as a whole is nothing more than a tool of the Sith, to be used when needed and abused when necessary. Vader's actions WERE an Imperial action inasmuch as he is following the Sith code to not only grow stronger in the Force and defeat his adversaries, but also eventually usurp his master as well.

The Rebellion on the other hand is centered around the 'small folk' of the galaxy. They're not there to conquer territory but to liberate. But no one organization has the knowledge to be able to effectively fight campaigns on multiple planets spread across space, so having a centralized command giving out orders for everything just can't happen. It is up to the individual fighters to make the Rebellion work, not Mon Mothma or Dodonna. An organization like the Alliance is also likely to not distinguish between individual partisans and members of the Rebellion unless their philosophies were too dissimilar to work together (Saw). Individual movements don't have to have a Rebel membership card to be part of the larger movement. They just have to have to desire to rid the galaxy of the Empire without killing a huge number of civilians in the process. Happens all the time with real life insurgent groups. Doesn't matter why an individual attacked or if he had ever talked to the group before. If he attacked then, success or failure, they claim him as one of theirs.

Wow. Took me awhile to get all caught up on the thread, but I did. For starters I was unsure of how I felt about the ending. After reading all the comments up to this point, and contemplating my own thoughts, this is my personal way to get all the content from the last four years to fit nicely into my Star Wars Universe.

This is a story told from a certain point of view (Sabines) she is in nearly every episode and those that she isn't can be recounted to her easily by other characters. I am willing to go with the thought that Filoni found the golden tablets upon which this story was written, and in translating this story minor errors were made. Such as all Star Destroyers being genericly refered to 'Imperial' class. Surely in the early seasons when star destroyers arrived they were actually Victory, Venator, or Gladiator class. If Ryloth could be subjugated by a single 'Carrier' (more distinctive translation) surely they didn't need a fleet of Imperial class destroyers to hold down a similar backwater world that wasn't activly resisting. Sure the likes of Thrawn, and Vader would have had larger ships, but smaller vessels could have easily been misremembered/characterized. We have presidence with Iron squadron, I am sure before the Ghost crew arrived and educated them on just how small a fish they were the stories of their exploits recounted by them were much more impressive. Remember when we saw them it went something like

"We killed that Star Destroyer (Gozanti)"

"No, that was a transport ship."

"Wow at last a Star Destroyer! (Arquitens)"

"No that was a light cruiser."

".........."

"Now that's a Star Destroyer"(Victory Class?)

(Also the simple cost of rendering all the different sized models may have figured I to all destroyers being Imperial.)

In the end I am a huge fanboy, and will do my best to legitimize whatever they give me. But I do need consistency to defend my franchise, and a little bit of data to back up my arguments. Right now the biggest gap I have is how did they get the porgill to join the fight without Ezra being in direct contact. Just how smart are these things. I am even okay with not seeing terrible injuries to the new allies , the wounds can appear off screen for all I care. But some more sacrifice would have been nice. The loss of one clone wasn't enough for me to feel the enemy the heroes faced was really that tough. With what we saw, Pryce was the greatest threat the Rebels met. Only under her watch did the team suffer real loss. I am excited to see what comes next, and really want to see more Ahsoka and what she becomes. Filoni actually gave us more space to tell stories, and isn't that in the end at least one thing we all want? This series was not without flaws, groans, or things I didn't necessarily like. But it was Star Wars. I like Star Wars!

17 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

Can you take your filth somewhere el-

If you could be less insulting, maybe.

I don't recall sharing any images around or going into any horrible detail, but using such things merely for humorous discourse and implying Dave Filoni may or may not have far more severe problems he needs to talk to somebody about given his utterly bizarre fixation on wolves. Then again people with extreme fixation on wolves have always eluded my understanding.

With all due respect, take some notes from the other guys here. That you're the only one fussing about it means it's an entirely personal distaste and / or disdain. I am not responsible for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, in regards to Ezra and the Purgills? Honestly it felt like Ezra knew what he was doing at least 95% of the time. not that he planned all of this, so much as Ezra had this astounding moment of clarity where he, as stated, saw many paths, and took one of them. I imagine in this moment, he made come kind of unmentioned contact with the Purgills- remember, that Iron Squadron kid did have a particular mission given to him by Ezra..! That's very important. That means Ezra always expected the Star Destroyers. That his intention was for what happened, to have happened, by the end of it all.

Ezra really grew up by the end of all this, huh? I think it's safe to say that he did surpass Kanan.

Yeah, so the finale kind of craps on the OT opening text crawl and R1 being the first victory...

so? It’s not the first time something like this has happened. The PT crapped on all sorts of dialogue and flat out retconed some things. We all try to justify things but in the end we are going to have major things in canon compromising other Canon.

8 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Yeah, so the finale kind of craps on the OT opening text crawl and R1 being the first victory...

so? It’s not the first time something like this has happened. The PT crapped on all sorts of dialogue and flat out retconed some things. We all try to justify things but in the end we are going to have major things in canon compromising other Canon.

Whoa be careful, reason is very hard to have. You are playing with raw power duder. Super careful.

2 hours ago, flyboymb said:

Jyn's mission was also something personal. She was going after a thing mentioned in a message from her dead daddy that NOBODY alive could show actually existed (outside of the Imperials of course). The Ghost crew had a long standing mission on Lothal with the Rebellion. They initially failed to meet their objectives and were forced off the planet. So the fact that this same cell manages to get back onto said planet and kick the Empire off of it, albeit with some massive help from space whales, doesn't count because they didn't meet some time factor? Insurgencies don't work like that. Insurgencies CAN'T work like that because such a strict hierarchy would again inevitably result in making it easier to track the command and destroy it.

Lothal was liberated with about as much of a force as was initially dedicated to the mission. If the Ghost crew had managed to drive off the Empire before they were ever driven off of Lothal, would that have been a Rebel victory? Would it have not counted unless Fulcrum gave them the mission word for word? Let me tell you something. Insurgencies take whatever 'good' press they can get. It wouldn't matter if there were half a dozen folks with glow sticks, a herd of bantha, and an overly enthusiastic Tribble that got lost somewhere in space and time, if a planet is yanked from the Empire's sphere of influence, the Rebellion is going to capitalize on that. Why wouldn't they? It shows that the Empire CAN be defeated. It would inspire more members to join or at least inspire people to give material support. Nobody would expect this to be a chain reaction resulting in the Empire being overthrown, but they'd see the Rebellion as the force to be reckoned with. An ENTIRE Imperial garrison went up in flames in a single day. How stupid would the Rebellion be to let that slip by?

Trying to rope in Saw's group with the Ghost crew is a red herring at best. Saw wanted nothing to do with the Rebellion just as much as the Rebellion wanted nothing to do with Saw. The Ghost crew sacrificed one of their own to activate the shield generator to protect the populace. Saw likely would have instantly used the dome's guns to fire upon the ISDs even if it meant them crashing down onto the city. Hera went right back to the Rebel HQ and was accepted with open arms. There is no correlation between the two.

Sabine said it herself, with the victory on Lothal, 'the small Rebellion had become bold'. During the mission they addressed themselves with titles such as 'Commander' and 'General'. If they didn't consider themselves part of the Alliance, what were they a Command and General of? In fact, the ONLY evidence that the Alliance was not a part of this mission was ONE line from Zeb. Are we to take his word as binding to the Rebellion at large? He was being grumpy like Zeb always is. Without the space whales, the mission was only at a stalemate. The garrison was still locked inside, Thrawn was keeping the Rebels from launching, but the shields were keeping Thrawn from firing on the city. Ezra had destroyed the gate, the Emperor's goal was ruined, and there was a lightsaber wielding Force user loose on Thrawn's flagship before Moby Decks arrived. This was a standard Rebel operation through and through with one unforeseen fluke bringing about the victory. Zeb said it himself 'Let's go Rebels!'. They didn't consider themselves renegades, they were still talking like members of a bigger organization. That evidence alone trounces a throwaway line by a character who is prone to gruff exaggeration.

And finally, the U.S. certainly could claim part of the victory that China obtained considering the arms and pilots that they shipped over eventually became the Flying Tigers. Nearly 300 Japanese pilots would be happy to attest to their effectiveness if they hadn't been shot down. Those were bombers heading to Chinese towns and IJA fighters and pilots that wouldn't be available to fight after the war.

The Ghost crew wasn't working against the Rebels on this mission. Luke wasn't a deserter for going to Dagobah instead of joining up with the fleet, he was working in his own way to further the Rebel cause. The Rebels and Empire are polar opposites in this regard. The Empire as a whole is nothing more than a tool of the Sith, to be used when needed and abused when necessary. Vader's actions WERE an Imperial action inasmuch as he is following the Sith code to not only grow stronger in the Force and defeat his adversaries, but also eventually usurp his master as well.

The Rebellion on the other hand is centered around the 'small folk' of the galaxy. They're not there to conquer territory but to liberate. But no one organization has the knowledge to be able to effectively fight campaigns on multiple planets spread across space, so having a centralized command giving out orders for everything just can't happen. It is up to the individual fighters to make the Rebellion work, not Mon Mothma or Dodonna. An organization like the Alliance is also likely to not distinguish between individual partisans and members of the Rebellion unless their philosophies were too dissimilar to work together (Saw). Individual movements don't have to have a Rebel membership card to be part of the larger movement. They just have to have to desire to rid the galaxy of the Empire without killing a huge number of civilians in the process. Happens all the time with real life insurgent groups. Doesn't matter why an individual attacked or if he had ever talked to the group before. If he attacked then, success or failure, they claim him as one of theirs.

Ah, here we are.

While you have some good points, you are leaving out other details to support them. Examples being the Ghost being reassigned to Yavin and Mothma’s denial to continue operations to liberate Lothal, until basically coerced by Hera. Then the forces that the Alliance sent were wiped out, and the Lothal Rebels were left on their own. Once again, Jyn’s mission became an Alliance victory when their leadership actually sent General Merrick to join Raddus to aid the Rogue One crew. They actually attributed to victory with ships and lives. You keep saying insurgences can’t work like that, but that’s ignoring cells can go off the deep end and have to be removed from the whole for one reason or another.

I rope in Saw to show those who rebel against the Empire are not all a part of the Alliance, therefore not all actions against the Empire can be claimed by the Alliance. Calling oneself a Rebel doesn’t make one a part of the Alliance, nor does it mean that all your actions now belong to another. Remember, the Ghost crew were rebels before there was even a Rebel Alliance.

You also seem to be missing why the Rebel Alliance shouldn’t take credit for the victory on Lothal, which is that can’t repeat it. Yay, magical space whales and a Jedi drove the Empire off. That’s a miracle. And if you start promising miracles but can’t back ‘em up, you lose support. How does that sound like a good idea?

Your point about the member of the Ghost crew sacrificing himself is interesting as it wasn’t one of the Alliance operatives. It was Gregor, a Clone who joined up with Rex and Ezra, not the Alliance. He was there for friends. Do you have proof he was there for the Alliance?

Some of the Ghost crew returning to The Alliance to there old titles is actually explained by a point you made yourself: Luke’s trip to Degobah. He went incommunicado for a bit on a private mission, but still had his old rank of commander. They can still be welcomed back from an action the Alliance approves of, but doesn’t take credit for.

yeah, I do take Zeb’s remark at face value because a) again, the Alliance didn’t actually contribute to the victory, and b) because the lore group okayed this. Now, would more overt signs of this disconnect have been better? Absolutely. But this is what we got and this is what they went with. Explain to me how your opinion of this not being an Alliance victory outweighs the Rebels’ writers and the lore group? You can dislike it all you want, but that doesn’t give you authority beyond your own private considerations.

Also, your assumption that the mission was at a stalemate isn’t actually accurate. If you have read the Thrawn novel, you will know that he has before found ways around shields, including the simple send in ground forces. He still had a whole blockaid full of soldiers, plus the soldiers in the dome who we knew were not idle, and even forceing their way back to the control center in the end. Yes, Ezra was on Thrawn’s bridge, but he was also surrounded with even more reinforcements on the way. Maybe he could take out Thrawn, maybe not. But he certainly couldn’t have taken out the other Star Destroyers, who were still fully manned and could start a ground assault.

As for your historical point, i’ll give you that. But now we are getting more into the territory of what happened at Scarif rather than Lothal.

Now your point about the Empire not being the same as the Rebel Alliance. True, however that doesn’t mean that examples from it can be removed. Remember, that while Vader is Sith, he is loyal to the Empire as it protects and serves the galaxy. Look back to the Attack of the Clones and his thoughts on how to better run the galaxy. Fast forward to the Revenge of the Sith where while turning evil, he still holds onto this concept that he is making the galaxy a better, safer place. We see glimpses of this even after he was full made into Vader, as referred to by Inspector Thanoth, who thought he was better for the Empire than the Emperor. Add to that while the Empire was the tool of the Sith, it was not solely that. We see plenty of Moffs, senators, and other members of the royal court using it for their own ends. This is on top of loyal officers who joined because they believed in the rhetoric. Vader’s actions were Sith, but not Imperial, because the Empire was more than the Sith.

You keep referring to actual insurgent behavior, but also leave out vital parts of that process, such as vetting cells to make sure they aren’t moles, or self-destructive, which could lead to the downfall of the movement. Also, the leadership aren’t insurgence figures. They are politicians. Virtuous ones at that. If you care to recall, it wasn’t Mothma or Organa that ordered Cassian to kill Galen Erso. They are going to be more strenuous about who can and can’t get in, especially after Saw. They can publize what other brave freedom fighters did, but not take credit when none is due.

Finally, I would like to revisit and expand upon a point from before. It appears that the lore group are following reasoning closer to mine than yours, therefore the liberation of Lothal is canon and is not intended to conflict with already established lore. My way explains how. How does your way solve the situation?

6 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Nah, that’s just the original proof that Boba was indeed a clone. Or that at least some imperials were.

For those who may not know, @GrimmyV and I are just having some OT fun. This is Jeremy Bulloch, who appeared in Doctor Who twice and had two separate characters in the James Bond series.

Oh, he was also the man who played Boba Fett.

In The Empire Strikes Back on his first take he famously says,

“Put Captain CARGO on the SOLO hold."

?

The simple explanation for Rebels is it's based on truth, from a certain point of view.

It's an exaggeration of the actual truth and while the situations and characters are based on the 'actual events' within Star Wars, they have been embellished to the point that they are no longer a good representation.

Example:

• The Imperial blocade of Lothal at the end: Instead of an Imperial fleet stationed there, it's a single cruiser (was it even a star destroyer?) and a pair of support ships.
• Swarm of space whales! Well, maybe a few. And many were mauled and hurt... we'll just not record that for morale purposes.

I think I've mentioned this in this very thread, but I see Rebels much like how Battletech dealt with the goofy MechWarrior cartoon. The show was based on canon events, but was an 'in universe' show embellishing those events for a younger audience. Everything gets a whole lot easier to swallow then.

52 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

The simple explanation for Rebels is it's based on truth, from a certain point of view.

Too bad Sabine and chopper didn’t rig up a device that slaved all ISDs together so that if one jumped they all jumped, with Ezra calling one whale-squid and making the Chimera jump, taking the fleet out in basically the same way but maybe without the stupidity of a feet of space monsters actually physically breaking into the bridge or destroying the ships and such.

I dunno, still a bit cheap.

If we are going to go down the route of "what we saw on screen contradicts!" I feel it's probably a little more credible to assume that one line from opening crawl was not *technically* true than an entire series of events shown on screen in quite exacting detail.

Pretending what we see on screen is some massive abstraction pulls me out of the suspension of disbelief way more than assuming some omniscient silent narrator at the start of a pulpy space opera got one technical historical fact slightly wrong in their story.

Real life historical texts have more contradictions than fictional canons of universe based around mythical ideas of redemption and sacrifice.

I love world building. I adore it. Not only do I voraciously devour the details of alternate worlds, I also spend tonnes of time creating them on my own and with friends. I also think the obsessive stamp-collecting level of Canon we've reached, where every detail is a part of a grand historical picture diminishes the joy of the story when taken to extremes. I feel like this whole "was the opening crawl of a 40 year old trilogy maybe slightly wrong" thing is perhaps one of them

The Hobbit is a jolly fairy tale-esque story. The Lord of the Ring is a turgid and monotonous story written like a historical catalogue. There's a reason that the former has pretty much universal appeal and even fans of Middle Earth find LotR to be pretty dull. (Tolkien had to stop reading it to his friends because they hated it that much. I've been THERE as a writer too.)

A good internally consistent story with decent character arcs and themes is the main thing, IMO. Everything else is the peripheral, and I sometimes feel it's easy to miss out on the joy of simple stories when we get hung up on those peripheral minutiae.

25 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Too bad Sabine and chopper didn’t rig up a device that slaved all ISDs together so that if one jumped they all jumped, with Ezra calling one whale-squid and making the Chimera jump, taking the fleet out in basically the same way but maybe without the stupidity of a feet of space monsters actually physically breaking into the bridge or destroying the ships and such.

I dunno, still a bit cheap.

You missed my point. Imperial records may not agree that any star destroyers were lost. A Raider, a Gozanti or two... When you score a victory, you use propaganda to make it seem bigger than it actually was.

On 3/9/2018 at 1:10 AM, GreenDragoon said:

Of course we just didn‘t see that yet, but we might. I also clearly said I‘ll be fine with it once that hole is closed.

Yeah, let's have Rion Johnson close up that plothole. He does well writing with other people's material.

Oh...wait a minute...

25 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Yeah, let's have Rion Johnson close up that plothole. He does well writing with other people's material.

Oh...wait a minute...

I get that all the cool kids are hating on TLJ and honestly any Star Wars media that isn't the OT, but who actually brought up Rian Johnson as an option in this conversation?

I'm not saying Rian Johnson cut my brakes, but thus far he's refused to publicly denounce this act of violence against me, the coward

51 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I get that all the cool kids are hating on TLJ and honestly any Star Wars media that isn't the OT, but who actually brought up Rian Johnson as an option in this conversation?

Me.

Just a cautionary joke poking fun about the idea of expanding on Filoni's work with the Ahsoka/Sabine/Ezra loose end, and the idea popped into my head of "what if it got a cinematic release?"

Then I remembered Johnson's results with Abram's material.

Might be better if Filoni just writes a book.

1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

You missed my point. Imperial records may not agree that any star destroyers were lost. A Raider, a Gozanti or two... When you score a victory, you use propaganda to make it seem bigger than it actually was.

Pretty sure that fleet was missed. I was talking about the finale from a more story related angle too.

Rogue One’s ‘mining accident’ does go along with your interpretation of the empire covering up big incidents by greatly downplaying them

Just now, GrimmyV said:

Pretty sure that fleet was missed. I was talking about the finale from a more story related angle too.

Rogue One’s ‘mining accident’ does go along with your interpretation of the empire covering up big incidents by greatly downplaying them

Yeah, no. I'm saying the Rebels SHOW is the propaganda. Inflated truth. Imperials were defeated at Lothal, but their actual force there was not as represented in the show.

Anyway, not really arguing. It's a joke that I've had to explain far too much into.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I'm saying the Rebels SHOW is the propaganda.

I will agree with you there! The tonal backlash even in the first season of bumbling imperials suddenly being decapitated would feel tight at home with anti communist news reels and reefer madness.