10 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

It's Star Wars. Rule of cool and story always trump stuff like real world considerations.

NO ONE WANTS REAL WORLD CONSIDERATIONS. NO ONE IS ASKING FOR STAR WARS TO HAVE REAL WORLD PHYSICS. ALL WE WANT IS FOR STAR WARS TO HAVE CONSISTENT RULES FOR HOW ITS WORLD OPERATES. BUT THANK YOU FOR YET ANOTHER STRAW MAN!

Example : You could say "Wookiees poop gold and shoot lasers out of their eyes that bring people back from the dead, giving them halos and wings upon rebirth through some voodoo-ish connection they have to the Living Force. And that'd be fine, as long as wookiees always do that in situations where it would make sense for them to do so. Having them not do that for 40 years of story-telling, and then having Chewie do it in Episode 9 while some character lazily expositions "Oh I read about how wookies can do this!" is a problem, because it ISN'T CONSISTENT with the world that has been built. Classic story example: having Hermione pull out a time-changing device to solve the problem in one story, while never before or never again using it to solve any problems in the other six stories.

18 minutes ago, Ktan said:

TLJ established that capital ships have backup atmospheric shield systems, which is why they can still use the bridge of the Raddus after its windows get blown out, IIRC. Since the Raddus is about 30 years old at the time of TLJ it's fair to say ISDs probably have the same backup systems.

While the Raddus was caught by a sudden missile attack, it's reasonable the crew of the Chimera had enough time to kick in the backups.

Either way, Filoni has since confirmed in Rebels Recon both Ezra and Thrawn are alive. The only reason we didn't see it because he's not yet sure where he wants to go with that. I think a followup series would explain how both survive, even if only with a few lines of dialogue or a flashback.

Raddus had a backup bridge, it's marked in the Incredible Cross-Sections.

The rules that you seem to be asking for are only things that the hardcore, technical fans care about.

My hope is Zahn ignores the less then stellar aspects of these episodes and accentuates the better parts to frame his next book, sort've like how Heir to the Empire focused on the better parts of Return of the Jedi.

Maybe a passage like:

'Thrawn stared out into the vacuum of space, its stars outshone in momentary flashes, as the Chimaera's guns pour forward into a small purple point ahead of the vessel's bow. The pained bleatings from the final Purgil played over subspace radio so that all the bridge could hear its final, mournful calls. The crook of a smile touches the corners of Thrawn's azure lips as the ancient creature falls apart. They never foresaw the Chimaera emerging from hyperspace so nearby nor the power of its turbo lasers that cut through them like lard. They underestimated Thrawn's resilience to survive as he did their unexpected arrival all those years ago, never again.

"Captain Pellaeon, you may cease fire." Thrawn coldly exclaimed to the bridge. Bridger may have escaped but his greatest allies, the ones so cleverly hidden in the corners of all his terrorist actions, so well planned and out of left corner even I could not forsee, will never aid him again.'

Not my best prose, and a bit snarky at the end. However for the first time, a Star Wars product other then the Ewoks has truly made me feel snarky.

26 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Raddus had a backup bridge, it's marked in the Incredible Cross-Sections.

Ah, fair enough, I wondered if I was misremembering.

That said, I think either atmospheric shields (We've seen them before on starship hangers and I FEEL like we've had an example in recent canon but I can't remember) or Chiss being a bit more hardy to vacuum than other species is still a possibility.

26 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

The rules that you seem to be asking for are only things that the hardcore, technical fans care about.

Expecting characters to act the same, ships to act the same all fall in basic storytelling not anything technical or hardcore. What you seem to be saying is to set the bar so low it don't matter.

Quote

Yeah... it makes no sense that Lothal isn't immediately retaliated against. It would be a prime Death Star target.

Well, keep in mind that the events of the Rebels finale dovetails pretty much straight into 'Rogue One'. Which also goes directly into ANH, so...suddenly, the other parts of the Rebellion are causing a MASSIVELY bigger problem for the Empire than anything happening on Lothal. And hunting down the Skywalker cell becomes everyone's forget-everything-else-#1-priority, because the Emperor can clearly see enough of the future to know that Luke is the only real threat to him in the galaxy. So... that is the priority target.

33 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

The rules that you seem to be asking for are only things that the hardcore, technical fans care about.

I mean, I don't think it's that "hardcore" to ask for TLJ to simply not give us a number for how big the Resistance is... like I didn't want or need a number, just leave it to the imagination of the audience. But if you do throw a number out there, don't make it something laughably absurd, like a number smaller than most of our graduating high school classes...


As an aside, when's the last time you played a game of X-Wing? I haven't seen you at any events in well over 4 years, yet I see you posting in most threads on current topics. Did you relocate? Hope you're still getting lots of fun games in, I miss the olden days!

Loved everything....

I only was shocked NOT to see the Wookiees return to help Ezra, so the Purrgils surprised me... in a good way.

Heck of an end.

2 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Well, keep in mind that the events of the Rebels finale dovetails pretty much straight into 'Rogue One'. Which also goes directly into ANH, so...suddenly, the other parts of the Rebellion are causing a MASSIVELY bigger problem for the Empire than anything happening on Lothal. And hunting down the Skywalker cell becomes everyone's forget-everything-else-#1-priority, because the Emperor can clearly see enough of the future to know that Luke is the only real threat to him in the galaxy. So... that is the priority target.

Lothal is the only planet that has been liberated, it's a huge threat, if only for the propaganda purposes, and a much bigger problem that a bunch of scattered, hiding cells.

Not to mention it's trivial to deal with it, unlike searching the whole galaxy for Luke. It's something a bored admiral with an ISD or two could do in his spare time.

Just now, eMeM said:

Lothal is the only planet that has been liberated, it's a huge threat, if only for the propaganda purposes, and a much bigger problem that a bunch of scattered, hiding cells.

Not to mention it's trivial to deal with it, unlike searching the whole galaxy for Luke. It's something a bored admiral with an ISD or two could do in his spare time.

Keep nuCanon in mind - this is the Empire that follows Palpatine's orders to execute Operation Cinder. They have total and unquestioning loyalty to him, and him only. He makes all the decisions, and does so for his own self-interest, not as much for 'the stability of the galactic government', but more 'what keeps me alive and ruling the longest? '. To that end, once Skywalker is revealed, that's it - the Empire drops everything else to work on that one problem .

So, sure, if the first Death Star had been successful at Yavin, or Skywalker otherwise killed along the way, there would be no question - Lothal is toast. But that didn't happen, and so the Emperor and Empire forgot about it to concentrate on the one person that ol' sparky could see actually could defeat him. (Heck, Tarkin was seen to go outside of the Emperor's wishes on occasion to PUSH for his version of stability of the Empire - if Tarkin had survived, alone, yeah, Lothal is also toast. But Tarkin, too, dies in the events immediately following the series. I mean, consider alone the Empire's leadership lost on the Death Star - that's going to destabilize things for quite a bit!)

The longer I process this ending, the more I like it. I was very predisposed toward hating it, but in the end Thrawn survives, Ezra isn't in the same room as Palpatine so he can live, and the 'betrayal' fight scene was **** impressive from an animation and excitement standpoint. Kinda sad we didn't lose one of Zeb, Sabine, or Kallus, but it is a kid's show so I'll forgive them for not going that dark.

All in all, I enjoyed it thoroughly.

18 minutes ago, Ktan said:

Ah, fair enough, I wondered if I was misremembering.

That said, I think either atmospheric shields (We've seen them before on starship hangers and I FEEL like we've had an example in recent canon but I can't remember) or Chiss being a bit more hardy to vacuum than other species is still a possibility.

Atmospheric shields definitely exist, and they're the premise behind "open" docking bays and all of that. But I don't think they simply "spring to life" when an exterior hull is damaged anywhere (though they do routinely do so in Star Trek). In fact, we see in both RotJ and TLJ that when a bridge's windows are compromised, everything is sucked out into space. In RotJ , when Grievous destroys the windows, eventually some metal blast doors seal the windows shut, but that wouldn't be possible here given so many large tentacles stuck through the window ports from where the purrgil were grasping the ship and Thrawn.

The open windows hyperspace bugs me, but the rest was fun. Glad to hear they survived.

Enjoyed Rex wearing his Endor gear in the first part and Thrawn explaining that the Empire all know of the many Jedi in hiding and force sensitive untrained kids, and how they're no threat and therefore as a concept extinct.

Palp's hologram using the force to release Ezra's cuffs was impressive.

19 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Keep nuCanon in mind - this is the Empire that follows Palpatine's orders to execute Operation Cinder. They have total and unquestioning loyalty to him, and him only. He makes all the decisions, and does so for his own self-interest, not as much for 'the stability of the galactic government', but more 'what keeps me alive and ruling the longest? '. To that end, once Skywalker is revealed, that's it - the Empire drops everything else to work on that one problem .

So, sure, if the first Death Star had been successful at Yavin, or Skywalker otherwise killed along the way, there would be no question - Lothal is toast. But that didn't happen, and so the Emperor and Empire forgot about it to concentrate on the one person that ol' sparky could see actually could defeat him. (Heck, Tarkin was seen to go outside of the Emperor's wishes on occasion to PUSH for his version of stability of the Empire - if Tarkin had survived, alone, yeah, Lothal is also toast. But Tarkin, too, dies in the events immediately following the series. I mean, consider alone the Empire's leadership lost on the Death Star - that's going to destabilize things for quite a bit!)

Well theres a year between this and Rogue One. The Empire is not at war yet.

23 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Keep nuCanon in mind - this is the Empire that follows Palpatine's orders to execute Operation Cinder. They have total and unquestioning loyalty to him, and him only. He makes all the decisions, and does so for his own self-interest, not as much for 'the stability of the galactic government', but more 'what keeps me alive and ruling the longest? '. To that end, once Skywalker is revealed, that's it - the Empire drops everything else to work on that one problem .

So, sure, if the first Death Star had been successful at Yavin, or Skywalker otherwise killed along the way, there would be no question - Lothal is toast. But that didn't happen, and so the Emperor and Empire forgot about it to concentrate on the one person that ol' sparky could see actually could defeat him. (Heck, Tarkin was seen to go outside of the Emperor's wishes on occasion to PUSH for his version of stability of the Empire - if Tarkin had survived, alone, yeah, Lothal is also toast. But Tarkin, too, dies in the events immediately following the series. I mean, consider alone the Empire's leadership lost on the Death Star - that's going to destabilize things for quite a bit!)

You felt victim to the Galactic Shrinkage, you watched too much of the sequels. We are talking about the Galactic Empire, the Empire that controlls more or less the entire Galaxy.

They had years, and I highly doub the mighty Imperial Fleet is too busy scouting the Outer Rim to put down their only rebelling planet.

27 minutes ago, xanderf said:

So, sure, if the first Death Star had been successful at Yavin, or Skywalker otherwise killed along the way, there would be no question - Lothal is toast. But that didn't happen, and so the Emperor and Empire forgot about it to concentrate on the one person that ol' sparky could see actually could defeat him.

True, but the driving force of that is that after Yavin the Empire is scouring the Galaxy to find hidden Rebel bases, both to quash the rising Rebellion and because where they find the Rebellion, they are likely to find Skywalker.

So, minimally, you'd think that search would take them to Lothal, since the Empire has to view them as a manifestation of the Rebellion, and there only other lead other than the abandoned base in the ruins of Yavin IV. Minimally, you'd expect them to also come to Lothal to follow-up on the disaster.

"Sir, we can't reach Admiral Thrawn, Govenor Pryce, or any of the dozen ships in orbit of Lothal!"
"Silence, we have other priorities. Now let us never speak of Lothal again!"


My own "head canon" theory would be that the Imperials did send an investigative force. They deemed the Imperial fleet to have been destroyed by some unkown fauna, just as much of the garrison appeared to have been attacked by Lothal wolves. They still vet the planet and determine that no organized Rebel presence can be found, perhaps even arresting the new (old) Govenor and his closest supporters, just for punishment. Then, they probably deem the planet a lost cause, having stripped most of its valuable resources already, and leave it to fend for itself as an unprofitable little rock (like most of the planets, especially in the Outer Rim). They may leave one or two Imperial Star Destroyers in system just to keep an eye open for any coming-or-going Rebel fleet, and they certainly propbably install a few spynet satellites. Almost certainly they imbed several ISB operatives as local informants and spies, but after that say "screw it, we mined what we could from this rock, but the fauna is too hostile and continued occupation of Lothal isn't worth the resources or the risk" and leave it at that.

Maybe the space whales or force wolves hyperspaced Lothal into Unknown Regions and the Empire can't find it.

1 hour ago, Sithborg said:

Kanan and Hera were clearly in a relationship all throughout the series, not merely "friends with benefits".

As much as I love Aphra, and as much as Disney has done in terms of representation, Aphra's orientation is still a fairly big barrier in the world of kids cartoons.

Why does something being animated need to be for kids?

Granted, it IS an easier medium for doing kids shows, but animation does NOT automatically mean for children - that is a very north american idea.

5 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Well theres a year between this and Rogue One. The Empire is not at war yet.

[citation needed]?

I haven't seen anything to indicate it was that much time passed, and indeed earlier Twitter posts and interviews in the season seemed to indicate while the season started a year before ANH/RO, it was intended to end basically right up against it.

2 minutes ago, eMeM said:

You felt victim to the Galactic Shrincage, you watched too much of the sequels. We are talking about the Galactic Empire, the Empire that controlls more or less the whole Galaxy.

They had years, and I highly doub the mighty Imperial Fleet is too busy scouting the Outer Rim to put down their only rebelling planet.

Eh, that's the thing. I mean, even in the original trilogy - Lando's entire planet was outside the jurisdiction of the Empire, which Leia assumed meant he was part of the Mining Guild. IE., there is an entire Guild outside the jurisdiction of the Empire. Given later events, and what things have been established in nuCanon, it seems rather more likely that the Empire didn't control that much of the galaxy at all. Not really, anyway - likely little more than the Republic did at the height of the Clone Wars. IE., after the wars ended, the Empire probably grabbed the most important former-Separatist planets, but we never get particular indication that this they take the entire galaxy...

(Indeed, in both 'Lost Stars' and 'Tarkin', heck even in the Rogue One prequel novel 'Catalyst', it's explicitly stated that the Empire doesn't even control all planets formerly under the Republic...at least, not at the start)

2 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

My own "head canon" theory would be that the Imperials did send an investigative force. They deemed the Imperial fleet to have been destroyed by some unkown fauna, much of the garrison to have been attacked by Lothal wolves, but vet the planet and determine no organized Rebel presence can be found. Then, they probably deem the planet a lost cause, having stripped most of its valuable resources, and leave it to fend for itself as an unprofitable little rock (like most of the planets, especially in the Outer Rim). They may leave one or two Imperial Star Destroyers in orbit just to keep an eye open for any coming-or-going Rebel fleet, and they certainly imbed or imply several local informants and spies, but after that say "screw it, we mined what we could, but the fauna is too hostile and continued occupation of Lothal isn't worth the resources or the risk" and leave it at that.

I don't think that's inconsistent with what I'm suggesting.

That is - there is nothing left of interest on Lothal, and real big problems elsewhere. So...why bother with it?

There is a difference between having a mining colony not directly under the Empire (which the Empire can take anytime if it feels like it needs it) and a planet that was a part of the Empire and then decided to not be a part of the Empire, humiliating it, and killing hudreds of thousands of its soilders in the process.

So at least we now know who invented harpoon missiles and why...

14 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

My own "head canon" theory would be that the Imperials did send an investigative force. They deemed the Imperial fleet to have been destroyed by some unkown fauna, much of the garrison to have been attacked by Lothal wolves, but vet the planet and determine no organized Rebel presence can be found. Then, they probably deem the planet a lost cause, having stripped most of its valuable resources, and leave it to fend for itself as an unprofitable little rock (like most of the planets, especially in the Outer Rim). They may leave one or two Imperial Star Destroyers in orbit just to keep an eye open for any coming-or-going Rebel fleet, and they certainly imbed or imply several local informants and spies, but after that say "screw it, we mined what we could, but the fauna is too hostile and continued occupation of Lothal isn't worth the resources or the risk" and leave it at that.

I was thinking exactly the same thing myself.

Lothal's primary infrastructure has been destroyed and the main tactical reason the Empire went there in the first place is gone too.

If the Death Star was around still they'd have no doubt used it on Lothal. But invading a planet with a hostile population and hostile fauna that's primary useful infrastructure and tactical resources are gone? When they first took Lothal it was trivial, there probably wasn't even an invasion. Invading Lothal now would be an extremely huge cost to sink for no tactical reason. (It's clear it had little tactical value left since we've reason to assume most of the important stuff in Lothal is in that main city and Thrawn was quite happy to destroy it. He wouldn't do that if it had any strategic value.)

Deciding to not invade Lothal is probably the most tactically smart thing the Empire could do. Perhaps it serves as a propaganda victory but clearly Lothal just doesn't make the news in the same way. The Empire deliberately publicised the Death Star, so it was kind of hard to cover up the fact it was destroyed. They'd be committing to a sunk cost fallacy just for revenge and what would probably be a very minor propaganda victory. I doubt it's really worth it when you're dealing with various other cells and hostile populations.

Stories would spread about Lothal but I reckon the Empire deals with that sort of propaganda issue all the time. Ryloth is in a similar situation IIRC

I am fairly certain the failure of Lothal would've been placed squarely on Thrawn's shoulders. No need for reprisals when the "alien" was really at fault.