I just want to know what happened to Rae Sloane. She was there to found the first order, so when did Snoke step in?

10 minutes ago, Forresto said:

We know who Darth Plagues is.

He was Sideous's master who Sideous betrayed thus illustrating the rule of two. Palpatine used this story to manipulate Anakain.

For the story, that's all we need because Plagieus does not further the plot in any way.

Snoke is the same thing, we don't need to know any more about him to benefit the story. I would like to but it doesnt alter the story we have.

I think that was my point. But also to illustrate that there was this character who was the one who started the plot for an entire trilogy yet was killed his apprentice who was the real bad guy of the films. Instead of, I dunno, focusing the first movie on Palpy killing his master and assuming control of the plans we got Yipee! And Poodoo. The new trilogy shows a similar situation actually acted out, not just told to us.

dont get me wrong, I love the ballet scene with Ani and Sheev, the mood and framing is incredible, and it shows the all important manipulation of Anakin into Vader but it’s also a bit of tell and not show. Man it would been great to have seen some of that in an earlier movie, but I guess what we got will have to do.

7 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

I just want to know what happened to Rae Sloanne. She was there to found the first order, so when did Snoke step in?

Who’s Rae Sloane?

(J/k, don’t kill me)

19 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Holy mental hoop jumping Batman. How much of what you've written there actually occurs on screen?

Snoke is little more than a ,e,e at this point. A pantomime villain at best. His influence in the films can be summed up as follows:

TFA: "Bring Kylo Ren to me. Eeee. It it time to complete his training."

TLJ: "Take off that stupid mask". **dies**

We know all of that from the movie.

The scenes with Snoke aren't the only ones about Snoke ya know.

Leia says Snoke corrupted Ben explicitly.

*snip*

*snip*

17 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Leia says Snoke corrupted Ben explicitly.

As does Luke, when he tells Rey what really happened the night of the Temple's destruction.

I endlessly appreciate you dudes that paid distinct attention during The Last Jedi.

And yes, this thread is one of the longest in the forum. It might even be the longest, and if not, then it's very close.

REAL reasons Snoke seemed misplaced compared to Palpatine:

1) "Emperor Palpatine" sounds latin and cool and all, while "Supreme Leader Snoke" sounds like ..well as a parody/comical.

2) Palpatine had short lines that was to the point and "filled" with power and experience. Snokes lines were "Evil-overlord-monologue-ego-centric-over-the-top"

3) Palpatine was a human actor hidden in his robes and felt "real", while Snoke was bad cgi and felt fake.

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

I don't believe that the "Emperor was only doing it all to save the galaxy" BS was ever more than a theory. It's implied that he was aware of the Vong, but he was still a flaming ****** that only wanted power for its own sake. Heck, the Essential Guide to Warfare included a reference to the idea as a piece of Imperial propaganda and historical revisionism, not historical fact.

I missed this the first time around and just want to chime in that yes, this being some sort of piece of Imperial Propaganda would actually be really good.

52 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Leia says Snoke corrupted Ben explicitly.

Oh, WONDERFUL! Superb! Amazing! A couple of lines of dialogue totally redeems Snoke's presence in the movie.

Have you ever heard of the storytelling maxim "show, don't tell"? No? Don't worry; Ruin Johnson clearly hasn't either.

I think half of Palpatine’s lines in RotJ were ‘hate’ and ‘darkside’. I might be misremembering a bit tho.

‘Something something Darkside!’

54 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I endlessly appreciate you dudes that paid distinct attention during The Last Jedi.

Like this guy?

...I mean seriously. "You didn't pay attention to teh Least Jedi" . That's your defence against the film's atrocious writing and direction? The only way to enjoy the Least Jedi is to not pay attention to it, because the minute you start to look art it in depth it simply doesn't hold up. The story doesn't make sense. The characters have no motivation. The pacing is all over the place. And it takes extreme liberties with what people loved about the Star Wars universe in the first place. The film is a travesty.

Show don't tell is a maxim, and it's important to understand why it is.

For example, don't have a character tell people they are sad. Have a character show they are sad through their behaviour.

We aren't told Anakin is vengeful after Shmi dies, we are shown it. Even the dialogue when Padme reveals she's pregnant tells us she's pregnant (I don't think we need to be shown that conception...) but the responses of both, verbal and non-verbal show us a lot.

Also, sometimes the telling of one thing is the showing of others. For one, not everything can be shown on film. It's a maxim, not an ironclad rule. Showing Ren's grooming by Snoke would take an entire film, if not more. Also, that scene shows us a lot about how Leia and Han still view each other and their son. The character being talked about is not always the actual focus of the scene. That scene is about Han and Leia as well as giving us some backstory.

Show don't tell is in many ways talking about how characters convey things like emotion and motivations. John Wick tells us he's determined and dangerous, yes, but that's to set the tone. It then shows us he's a ruthless, efficient and detached killer. We still need to be told some things, like the story of how he got out the assassin game because showing that would be a massive diversion that would kill the pace of the film.

TFA shows us how conflicted Kylo is through actions and what he says. TLJ shows us the toxic relationship between Kylo and Snoke through actions and dialogue, not through Snoke going "I am now going to emotionally and physically abuse you now and you will feel sad after." No, Snoke bawls out Ren, electrocutes him and Ren smashes his helmet in rage. That's a lot of showing going on there.

Sometimes you have to tell certain things (heck, Star Wars is the worst culprit with the whole iconic text crawl, but that works even if it shouldn't )

Just because a line of dialogue is spoken by a character it doesnt mean that's the author telling. That's often the character showing .

Rather than show don't tell , a writer tends to think "I've just told the audience something. Can I show it instead?"

I feel like I've written hundred of words about this in the last hour or so and I'll stress I was told none of this by the film. I was shown it. And this is not the only place online I've had this discussion about how important Snoke is to Ren and what their relationship shows us about Ren.

Afterthought: Holy boldface Batman. Every time there's a word in bold take a shot or do the thing from Mass Effect where someone smacks their palm with their closed fist.

23 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Oh, WONDERFUL! Superb! Amazing! A couple of lines of dialogue totally redeems Snoke's presence in the movie.

Have you ever heard of the storytelling maxim "show, don't tell"? No? Don't worry; Ruin Johnson clearly hasn't either.

I don’t think anyone is saying Snoke was handled as well as he should have been. However, just because it was not done as well as some would hope doesn’t means he could be cut. He’s the man behind the certain that set things in motion. Told well or not, he still had a direct role in the movies.

It's just occurred to me: can I respectfully ask that we perhaps put a pin in this discussion of TLJ for the moment? I think it's a subject that passions are reasonably high about.

Rebels is about to be over, in about 7 or 8 hours. It might be nice for us all to put The Last Jedi chat on the backburner so once Rebels has aired we can get our feels out about it instead of running in circles on a tangentially related topic.

Like, I'm not anyone's mum/dad/abusive Dark side Step-Dad, I can't make anyone stop talking about the topic I just wanted to air it as a suggestion that it might be nice to swerve back to Rebels talk.

5 minutes ago, Ktan said:

Rebels is about to be over, in about 7 or 8 hours.

Good, then we can get back to what’s really important.

GUNBOAT!

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

The Mystery Box is always empty, filled with a fart and a prayer.

Sir,

I am not sure I completely agree with you, but I will defend your elequence with all my being.

19 minutes ago, Ktan said:

Every time there's a word in bold take a shot or do the thing from Mass Effect where someone smacks their palm with their closed fist.

You win. Can't find a gif though so here's Legion dancing.

This bickering is pointless.

Everything after the events of the Battle of Hoth is nothing more than fanciful and treasonous Rebel propaganda.

The Empire is Victorious on ALL Fronts!

31 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

You win. Can't find a gif though so here's Legion dancing.

[Swirls a glass of whisky]

Acceptable.

On behalf all those who don't have XD, could someone post the who lives who dies cheat sheet?

I gotta know if my man blue is good

If there's time people should absolutely make bingo cards.

18 minutes ago, Ktan said:

If there's time people should absolutely make bingo cards.

I’m popping Sake shots . ? ?

Death to Traitors!

NOOOOOOOO!!! Dang DirecTV and rain!!