You are wasting your time. His views on canon are not anyone else's. I would say that Bloodline pretty much cancelled out all the other post ROTJ EU.

Who?

(You notice that I didn't quote anyone? )

...Why? They have Thrawn. Anybody else would just be... Distracting .

As far as how some people a viewing the Rebels on this thread, I would compare them to the Wolverines from Red Dawn . Yes their stealing from, and fighting the established government, but they are trying to free people from that oppressive government at the same time. May I remind you of Tarkin Town, or the planet they blockaded that was starving. And then there's the general jerkish behavior of every Imperial on Lothal. Or how about almost wiping out an entire species, with weapons that are supposed to be illegal. Yes, not every cell or soldier is perfect (I can only imagine how Saw's group'll be), but Phoenix Cell is clearly one of the good ones.

Lothal is a hotbed of rebel activity, rebel activity invites reprisals. Tarkin Town makes sense, put likely culprits or those who would be complicit into easily controlled remote places. The planet being blockaded was very likely a rebel hotbed or assisted them in some manner, apparently serious enough to warrant a blockade. The show actually goes pretty far to show that the Empire is not cartoonishly evil, just cartoonishly inept. The stormtroopers aren't jerks, just clowns in battle armor. Sure you can point to Zeb's races almost extinction but there's two things to consider there. 1. They were actively fighting the empire 2. If actual Genocide was the goal as opposed to a very severe example to others, then a galactic Empire would have very little issue completing it.

Did you know that Britain had a plan in place in case Operation Sealion was successful? It involved leaving men and caches in villages across the countryside that could perform partisan actions against the occupying Nazis (not surprising). The thing was though, they knew full well it was futile. They knew it would invite reprisals on the villages that the attacks occurred near and only ever accomplish small feats. Rebels and Freedon fighters are noble or brave (so long as they are on our moral side, see Mujahadeen vs Taliban), but they are deluded individuals.

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others" what does that even mean? Suddenly it's okay to de genocide if it's just an example and not... ? Not what? It was genocide, the reason is not important. Exterminating whole species happened twice already (Geonosians and Lasats) and is extremely evil. Destroying whole planets is literally worse than Hitler.

In Kallus' eyes, after Imperial propaganda had done its job and prior to him meeting Zeb for an extended period of time in season 2, what do you think the difference was between a Lassat and a trandoshan (a species known for violence, hunting other sentients, eating them, killing their siblings upon birth and having a nice upgrade crew card showing Boosk skinning a wookie)? The Lassat had actually wiped out his squad and shot each of the wounded before his very eyes.

They actually did a good job of showing that deep down, Kallus was not ok with the genocide of the Lassat, but that considering how violent some species in Star Wars can be and how efficient Imperial propaganda was, that some officers might actually think that they are doing the right thing by imposing order, even through violent means.

I'm not defending the Empire's action by any means (I'm a Scum player after all), but I can see how in that universe, fear and prejudice were powerful weapons used by the Emperor to control his Empire.

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others" what does that even mean? Suddenly it's okay to de genocide if it's just an example and not... ? Not what? It was genocide, the reason is not important. Exterminating whole species happened twice already (Geonosians and Lasats) and is extremely evil. Destroying whole planets is literally worse than Hitler.

So should the empire just sit and wait for each attack, try and swipe them away then? "Aw dang they got away again!? They'll be back, you'll get them next time for sure.!" Reprisal's against citizens is effective because it establishes that if you are even slightly associated with the rebels you will be treated as one. Who would help a rebel if you knew it would cost your life, your families, your neighbors.....

As I said, Lasan was an example that fighting back is futile. It's like using the A bomb, show it off once or twice and you shouldn't ever have to use it again. Star Wars just happens to be full of really dense Species that seem to think they can put up a better fight than the last smoldering planet.

Evil, based on your morality sure, but effective.

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others" what does that even mean? Suddenly it's okay to de genocide if it's just an example and not... ? Not what? It was genocide, the reason is not important. Exterminating whole species happened twice already (Geonosians and Lasats) and is extremely evil. Destroying whole planets is literally worse than Hitler.

So should the empire just sit and wait for each attack, try and swipe them away then? "Aw dang they got away again!? They'll be back, you'll get them next time for sure.!" Reprisal's against citizens is effective because it establishes that if you are even slightly associated with the rebels you will be treated as one. Who would help a rebel if you knew it would cost your life, your families, your neighbors.....

As I said, Lasan was an example that fighting back is futile. It's like using the A bomb, show it off once or twice and you shouldn't ever have to use it again. Star Wars just happens to be full of really dense Species that seem to think they can put up a better fight than the last smoldering planet.

Evil, based on your morality sure, but effective.

Maybe instead of murdering own innocent people the Empire should rethink what it is doing and why the Rebellion exist in the first place? Maybe tone down the oppression, give some freedom, agree to some compromises?

It's evil and it's not effective. It didn't work for the Empire, which failed to destroy the rebellion on Lothal and eventually lost the civil war, ceasing to exist after laughable 25 years in power, with no outside threat for bonus incompetence points, just like it didn't work for the Nazis in Poland, where the ongoing genocide and regular slaughters of innocent civilians didn't stop operations of the largest resistance movement in Europe.

25 years compared to thousands of years of the Old Republic. That's how stable and effective is the rule of fear.

And that's the Empire: "Evil but effective."

Evil doesn't last long, however. Sooner or later, if the only people who follow you are driven by fear or greed, there will come a point where their fear of what's against you will overpower their fear OF you, or their greed will make them overgrasp and leave your force vulnerable.

An nation built of fear is on a foundation of sand, vulnerable to every shift in the wind; but a nation built of hope is on bedrock, able to reach for the heavens.

And that's what the Alliance represents against the Empire, hope versus fear. Sacrifice versus greed. Joy versus hate.

Of course there will always be people willing to follow the Emperor; a weak man desires a tyrant where a strong man desires equality. But hey, it'd be a boring universe if we all thought the same way.

It's a pretty little morality play of black-and-white. Star Wars is NOT a nuanced universe. I think that's why I find the Yuuzhan Vong so disgusting, because it states that Sheev was at heart a good guy for starting several intergalactic wars, embracing the Dark Side, destroying a religion, and committing multiple genocides because it was the only way to protect his galaxy against this invasion that only he saw coming. It means he wasn't selfish, he was self less , sacrificing his honor and his life for a higher cause.

And that is a fundamental misunderstanding of Star Wars.

In Kallus' eyes, after Imperial propaganda had done its job and prior to him meeting Zeb for an extended period of time in season 2, what do you think the difference was between a Lassat and a trandoshan (a species known for violence, hunting other sentients, eating them, killing their siblings upon birth and having a nice upgrade crew card showing Boosk skinning a wookie)? The Lassat had actually wiped out his squad and shot each of the wounded before his very eyes.

They actually did a good job of showing that deep down, Kallus was not ok with the genocide of the Lassat, but that considering how violent some species in Star Wars can be and how efficient Imperial propaganda was, that some officers might actually think that they are doing the right thing by imposing order, even through violent means.

I'm not defending the Empire's action by any means (I'm a Scum player after all), but I can see how in that universe, fear and prejudice were powerful weapons used by the Emperor to control his Empire.

A Lasat. One Lasat fighting with Saw Gerrera's partisans.

Arguing that it's OK to exterminate the Lasat because of one partisan is patently ridiculous.

I suspect that the story, which not only sets up Saw and his partisans as being every bit as ruthless as the communist partisans of Yugoslavia and Eastern Europe, is also quoting history and a particular movie which featured a ruthless insurgent leader (whose people were eventually able to defeat the foreigners occupying their country).

"Do we take prisoners?"

"No. Kill all they send... and they will stop coming."

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others" what does that even mean? Suddenly it's okay to de genocide if it's just an example and not... ? Not what? It was genocide, the reason is not important. Exterminating whole species happened twice already (Geonosians and Lasats) and is extremely evil. Destroying whole planets is literally worse than Hitler.

So should the empire just sit and wait for each attack, try and swipe them away then? "Aw dang they got away again!? They'll be back, you'll get them next time for sure.!" Reprisal's against citizens is effective because it establishes that if you are even slightly associated with the rebels you will be treated as one. Who would help a rebel if you knew it would cost your life, your families, your neighbors.....

As I said, Lasan was an example that fighting back is futile. It's like using the A bomb, show it off once or twice and you shouldn't ever have to use it again. Star Wars just happens to be full of really dense Species that seem to think they can put up a better fight than the last smoldering planet.

Evil, based on your morality sure, but effective.

" What I despise most about warfare, is the hypocrisy if often breeds. I've heard euphemisms that we are 'containing the enemy', that our 'sector of pacification is growing'. These are the tactics of the lie. Lies have the stench of death and defeat. You can only win a war by exterminating the enemy!

"Do you know who we are fighting? We are fighting Wolverines: small, ferocious animals. For them, you need a hunter. And you know, I am a hunter.

" From this moment on, there will be no further reprisals against civilians. This was stupid. Impotence. Comrades, if a fox stole your chickens, would you slaughter your pig because he saw the fox? No! You would hunt down the fox, find where it lives and destroy it! How do we do this? Become a fox."

Stupid question but I missed part of it what did maul say kannan real name was and where is it from?

Caleb Dume. The book A New Dawn.

Stupid question but I missed part of it what did maul say kannan real name was and where is it from?

Caleb Dume, my guess is the graphic novels "Kanan, the last padawan" set just after order 66.

Thanks

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others"

Is it really evil? It is so widespread accepted as part of the war on terror. 100 civilians are considered acceptable when a high ranking taliban, isis member or al qaeda member is a guest on wedding and a predator drone is in range for a bomb run.

And the empire is not a well established government which had its last civil war a thousand or even just a hundred years in the past. They still have not cleared up all separatists forces and the clones from the clone wars are still making up like 40% of their active army, while a new rebellion is already starting.

Edit: Now the claim that the method is ineffective and only breeds new insurgents, I am totally with you on that. You can certainly claim the empire is ineffective, though the claim about about not having outside attackers might not hold true. The unknown regions might need Thrawn in the new canon again for the very same reason Palpatine was sending Grand Admiral Thrawn out in legends. As well you do ignore how thin spread the empire is. There are ten species for each imperial capital ship, from the gozanti cruiser up to super star destroyers. The empire is gigantic, and it controls most of the civilized space, yet it is nearly completely powerless in at least half the galaxy just like the republic was before them. Sure, the republic lasted for thousands of years, but with political power similar to the UN, unable to stop wars even within its territory or between member worlds.

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others"

what does that even mean? Suddenly it's okay to de genocide if it's just an example and not... ? Not what? It was genocide, the reason is not important. Exterminating whole species happened twice already (Geonosians and Lasats) and is extremely evil. Destroying whole planets is literally worse than Hitler.

Is it really evil? It is so widespread accepted as part of the war on terror. 100 civilians are considered acceptable when a high ranking taliban, isis member or al qaeda member is a guest on wedding and a predator drone is in range for a bomb run.

And the empire is not a well established government which had its last civil war a thousand or even just a hundred years in the past. They still have not cleared up all separatists forces and the clones from the clone wars are still making up like 40% of their active army, while a new rebellion is already starting.

Anyone who thinks xenocide is OK because, "muh empier" needs to read Ender's Game . Or maybe play the first Mass Effect .

The number of species in fiction deserving xenocide is vanishingly small. And the traits of these species are not traits found in either the Geonosians or the Lasat. (We're looking at the xenomorphs from Alien and the Flood from Halo . But in both instances, there is evidence that the species might be negotiated with and therefore that xenocide may not be necessary. But neither the Geonosians nor the Lasat express themselves in any way remotely similar to the xenomorphs or the Flood.)

Let us also not forget that the entirety of the wookiee species (minus a handful of individuals) is enslaved by the Empire and are treated less like sentient slaves (as we see the Zygerrians generally treat their slaves) so much as bipedal beasts of burden. (Not that I'm suggesting that Zygerrian slaves - or other Imperial slaves - are treated especially well by their captors, but what the Empire was doing to the wookiees... pretty horrible stuff.)

So, is the Empire evil? Yes. It says so right in the opening crawl of A New Hope . And literally nothing we've seen the Empire do suggests that they are otherwise. (The Galactic Empire is not Firefly 's Union of Allied Planets, a monolithic government that does both great good and great harm. The Empire pretty much never does good.)

The wookies also actively aided Imperial fugitives and revolted several times so it's not as though the Empire just decided to do it. The Formics and Rachni are only portrayed as not villainous monsters once they start losing and are on the brink of eradication. Mass Effect somehow managed to contain as much bad material as the entire EU so examples of it post ME1 are questionable at best.

25 years pretty impressive considering the massive constraints they put on themselves. Not only is the leadership inept but the rank and file are as well. They put important factories on Outer Rim worlds, only bring in competent people to scare the rebels. The New Republic only manages to last about 30 years before it gets decapitated by the First Order, or in legends when the Vong show up, Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt, Fel Empire...

What about the Lasat?

You can't justify Empire's action. No way. Killing civilians as a rebuttal for partisan actions is evil . " a very severe example to others"

what does that even mean? Suddenly it's okay to de genocide if it's just an example and not... ? Not what? It was genocide, the reason is not important. Exterminating whole species happened twice already (Geonosians and Lasats) and is extremely evil. Destroying whole planets is literally worse than Hitler.

Is it really evil? It is so widespread accepted as part of the war on terror. 100 civilians are considered acceptable when a high ranking taliban, isis member or al qaeda member is a guest on wedding and a predator drone is in range for a bomb run.

And the empire is not a well established government which had its last civil war a thousand or even just a hundred years in the past. They still have not cleared up all separatists forces and the clones from the clone wars are still making up like 40% of their active army, while a new rebellion is already starting.

Anyone who thinks xenocide is OK because, "muh empier" needs to read Ender's Game . Or maybe play the first Mass Effect .

The number of species in fiction deserving xenocide is vanishingly small. And the traits of these species are not traits found in either the Geonosians or the Lasat. (We're looking at the xenomorphs from Alien and the Flood from Halo . But in both instances, there is evidence that the species might be negotiated with and therefore that xenocide may not be necessary. But neither the Geonosians nor the Lasat express themselves in any way remotely similar to the xenomorphs or the Flood.)

Let us also not forget that the entirety of the wookiee species (minus a handful of individuals) is enslaved by the Empire and are treated less like sentient slaves (as we see the Zygerrians generally treat their slaves) so much as bipedal beasts of burden. (Not that I'm suggesting that Zygerrian slaves - or other Imperial slaves - are treated especially well by their captors, but what the Empire was doing to the wookiees... pretty horrible stuff.)

So, is the Empire evil? Yes. It says so right in the opening crawl of A New Hope . And literally nothing we've seen the Empire do suggests that they are otherwise. (The Galactic Empire is not Firefly 's Union of Allied Planets, a monolithic government that does both great good and great harm. The Empire pretty much never does good.)

A single species out of over 20,000,000 species is less significant than a single city on earth. The empire has on a single planet more a 1000 times more population than the whole alien universe milky way (based on the 3 non-extinct species we see).

Enslaving the wookiee species,a species of trouble makers is less significant than gathering the japanese population in camps during WW2 in north america. Nuking hiroshima to end the war a few years earlier is killing more percent of earth's population then even destroying the whole alderaan sector would leave on the galactic population. Alderans about 3 billion citizens are equal to 0,3% population of imperial center. That literally just the capital. The 100,000 immediately dead people of hiroshima equal about 11% of the population of dc of that time. That's a difference of factor 38 in scale. The galactic empire works under the tarkin doctrine, assuming that if everyone is scared of the empire's power than no bloodshed nor waste of resources is necessary. It was clearly not working, but the basic concept is laid out exactly in that way. Fear will control the galaxy and establish order.

Under the reign of the empire wars are on a all-time low and the galaxy is indeed mostly at peace.

Though the firefly alliance at the other hand, not that is pure evil. There is no grew, the alliance is text book evil. Social control, manipulation, hidden slavery via the colonies, etc … textbook dystopian government.

What about the Lasat?

Separatists most likely. Examples need to be made, just like with the Geonosians. Though Admittedly the geonosians seem far more dangerous than the Lasat. Even the sterilisation of their planet did not stop them …

So I said this on another forum about how Maul is angry at Palpatine for discarding him (in lieu of 'no duh'):

"Yeah, Sheev goes through Sith apprentices like some people go through underpants: a little too quickly, and usually with holes and stains you do NOT want to know the origin of."

Holy ****. You people are insane, you should see the doctor or attend a denazificacion class.

Is it really evil? It is so widespread accepted as part of the war on terror. 100 civilians are considered acceptable when a high ranking taliban, isis member or al qaeda member is a guest on wedding and a predator drone is in range for a bomb run.

There is a slight difference between killing to make an exmaple, which is evil as ****, ie deliberately targeting civilians (like Nazis and the Empire), and targeting insurgents and killing civilians as collateral damage. In the first case dead civilians is the intention, in the second case it's a negative side effect that is avoided when possible.
You don't see US soilders rounding up the whole population of a village in Afghanistan and murdering them because 50km away an IED destroyed a HMMWV. That's because the US is not evil.

The wookies also actively aided Imperial fugitives and revolted several times so it's not as though the Empire just decided to do it.

LOL. It's not a reason good enough to enslave anyone let alone the whole planet. DO you even hear yourslef?
NO REASON IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR SLAVERY.

25 years pretty impressive considering the massive constraints they put on themselves. Not only is the leadership inept but the rank and file are as well. They put important factories on Outer Rim worlds, only bring in competent people to scare the rebels. The New Republic only manages to last about 30 years before it gets decapitated by the First Order, or in legends when the Vong show up, Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt, Fel Empire...

I don't talk about the sewage of the post RotJ Legends, but the Republic was attacked by the outside enemy and it doesn't suddenly disappear because the temporary capital is gone. The Empire fell appart because their own people were fed up with how evil it is.

A single species out of over 20,000,000 species is less significant than a single city on earth. The empire has on a single planet more a 1000 times more population than the whole alien universe milky way (based on the 3 non-extinct species we see).
Enslaving the wookiee species,a species of trouble makers is less significant than gathering the japanese population in camps during WW2 in north america. Nuking hiroshima to end the war a few years earlier is killing more percent of earth's population then even destroying the whole alderaan sector would leave on the galactic population. Alderans about 3 billion citizens are equal to 0,3% population of imperial center. That literally just the capital. The 100,000 immediately dead people of hiroshima equal about 11% of the population of dc of that time. That's a difference of factor 38 in scale. The galactic empire works under the tarkin doctrine, assuming that if everyone is scared of the empire's power than no bloodshed nor waste of resources is necessary. It was clearly not working, but the basic concept is laid out exactly in that way. Fear will control the galaxy and establish order.
Under the reign of the empire wars are on a all-time low and the galaxy is indeed mostly at peace.

Though the firefly alliance at the other hand, not that is pure evil. There is no grew, the alliance is text book evil. Social control, manipulation, hidden slavery via the colonies, etc … textbook dystopian government.

Does it even need any comment?
You are a bad person and you should be ashamed of posts like this.

Do you not see the difference between a war between two countries (one of which was clearly to blame, Japanesse were the Nazis of the Pacific, complete with atrocities, war crimes, inhumane cruelty, and genocides, and they started the war) and murdering own people during a civil war that only goes on because the Empire is evil and does evil things? You realise that all that was needed to stop the Rebellion was Empire becoming less evil?

" Social control, manipulation, hidden slavery via the colonies" Empire does all of that, except that slavery isn't hidden.

Separatists most likely. Examples need to be made, just like with the Geonosians. Though Admittedly the geonosians seem far more dangerous than the Lasat. Even the sterilisation of their planet did not stop them …

No they don't unless you are evil and only fear holds your empire together.
If you have to do regular genocides every monday you are not ruling your country well.

oh god please no not in my thread please not in my beloved two year old thread

So...how about the show then? Getting a bit heavy in here.

I wrote a mostly spoiler-free review of the episode here - http://superdstuff.com/star-wars-rebels-the-holocrons-of-fate/ .

Obviously I can go into more detail here.

So...how about the show then? Getting a bit heavy in here.

Last episode was pretty great, again, nice how there is no sign of slowing down, yet (although I am afraid they will after this one, next week might be a bit filler). Some things were a bit weird, but I liked the sense of urgency they conveied throughout all of this and how powerfull Maul can be.

Wait, next week is "The Antilles extraction" - thats no filler! Honestly can't wait.