Trying to watch this show without having it recorded. Goodness. If you have any doubt this is meant for kids, sit through the commercials.
My Dad I and I go insane, every time.
STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!
Good episode. I liked all the visions. Ahsoka dealing with the truth of Vader is great. And good to the Grand Inquisitor again.
Yeah, I think Filoni may have been hinting at something in the finale.
I totally called it! It gonna be Malachor they go to. Also, Grand Inquisiter was a temple guard, I'd love to see the backstory to his fall to the dark side
Well, I do suspect we may get hints of it if what I suspect is true. I'm hoping some other well known Jedi who had a fall to the Dark Side may be an Inquisitor.
I agree that she doesn't accept the title, but as we saw in the episode
The Jedi were all corrupted by the dark side during the war. Tano was the only one to finally see it and push away from that corruption.
Except that's not at all why she left the order. Which was shown in the Clone Wars.
She left the order because, when she was framed for sabotage and terrorism, the Order didn't seem to support her, and believe in her innocence.
It was in fact, something of a childish tantrum. "They didn't trust me, so I'm leaving."
There was nothing about her thinking the Jedi might be corrupted by the Dark Side.
I wouldn't exactly call it childish.
And with what happened to Bariss, seeing a corruption of Jedi due to the war isn't exactly a stretch.
I agree that she doesn't accept the title, but as we saw in the episode
The Jedi were all corrupted by the dark side during the war. Tano was the only one to finally see it and push away from that corruption.
Except that's not at all why she left the order. Which was shown in the Clone Wars.
She left the order because, when she was framed for sabotage and terrorism, the Order didn't seem to support her, and believe in her innocence.
It was in fact, something of a childish tantrum. "They didn't trust me, so I'm leaving."
There was nothing about her thinking the Jedi might be corrupted by the Dark Side.
Except that an order not corrupted by the dark side would consider her innocent until proven guilty. They let their fear guide their actions and rush their judgements. They continued the witch hunt in spite of evidence suggesting she might not have done it. She left the order because the order was unreasonable, untrustworthy, and unbecoming of what she believed a Jedi to embody; traits opposite of her character. She saw what they were and couldn't remain among them. She chose not to associate with that behavior. Nothing childish about it. It was the most grown up thing she did on the show.
Except that an order not corrupted by the dark side would consider her innocent until proven guilty. They let their fear guide their actions and rush their judgements.
That's valid, but that's YOUR line of thinking, not hers. Nothing in the episode suggested that she was thinking ANY of that.
Well, jeez, that was one of the dumbest and most childish episodes yet! Yoda actually teaching lessons and giving advice, Kanan learning that martial strength is not the true strength of the Jedi, knowing that Ahsoka misses her days working with Anakin and must confront and dismiss her fears that she had a hand in making him Vader... Oh, and the idea that the Jedi Order was corrupted by its own arrogance in fighting the Clone Wars instead of staying aloof, and that fighting, despite being the easy solution, is rarely the best solution? *eyeroll* What kind of simplistic notions are they force-feeding our kids?
How many more stupid kiddy ideas are they going to add to this new canon? OddBallE8, you are sooooo right, there's nothing worthwhile in this series and they should just cancel it right now instead of adding more idiotic things that make no sense.
.../sarcasm
Oh, man, the idea that the Jedi suddenly leapt into war always sat wrong with me. The notion that corruption and arrogance at the heart of their Order was what lead them to go so fast from "We're a neutral Order, we don't get involved in politics" to "RARRGH WE HAVE LAZERSWORDS!!!" is very interesting.
This episode was all about confronting fears. Kanan fears that he isn't worthy to teach Ezra and may lead him astray, Ezra fears that he's a burden to his friends and the Rebel Alliance, and Ahsoka fears that she may have had a hand in creating Darth Vader by 'abandoning' Anakin when she did. There were hints she saw him since that scene where she walked away from the Temple; specifically just before the big battle at the start of Episode III.
In a way, I think it's a return to a better idea of the Jedi than just "We feel no emotions so we're better." Rather than trying to bury emotions and pretend they aren't there, the Jedi are about accepting those negative emotions and then moving past them to the zen moment, and using that peaceful moment to make the right decision.
Holy crap what a great episode.
AND SERIOUSLY
MALACHOR
GOT CANONIZED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also, what the guy above me said.
Holy crap what a great episode.
AND SERIOUSLY MALACHOR GOT CANONIZED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also, what the guy above me said.
Agreed. Big "holy crap" moment for me was the Grand Inquisitor reveal. It's also nice to see how Ezra has gotten better with his saber thanks to Anakin.
Edited by T70 DriverWell, jeez, that was one of the dumbest and most childish episodes yet! Yoda actually teaching lessons and giving advice, Kanan learning that martial strength is not the true strength of the Jedi, knowing that Ahsoka misses her days working with Anakin and must confront and dismiss her fears that she had a hand in making him Vader... Oh, and the idea that the Jedi Order was corrupted by its own arrogance in fighting the Clone Wars instead of staying aloof, and that fighting, despite being the easy solution, is rarely the best solution? *eyeroll* What kind of simplistic notions are they force-feeding our kids?
How many more stupid kiddy ideas are they going to add to this new canon? OddBallE8, you are sooooo right, there's nothing worthwhile in this series and they should just cancel it right now instead of adding more idiotic things that make no sense.
.../sarcasm
Oh, man, the idea that the Jedi suddenly leapt into war always sat wrong with me. The notion that corruption and arrogance at the heart of their Order was what lead them to go so fast from "We're a neutral Order, we don't get involved in politics" to "RARRGH WE HAVE LAZERSWORDS!!!" is very interesting.
This episode was all about confronting fears. Kanan fears that he isn't worthy to teach Ezra and may lead him astray, Ezra fears that he's a burden to his friends and the Rebel Alliance, and Ahsoka fears that she may have had a hand in creating Darth Vader by 'abandoning' Anakin when she did. There were hints she saw him since that scene where she walked away from the Temple; specifically just before the big battle at the start of Episode III.
In a way, I think it's a return to a better idea of the Jedi than just "We feel no emotions so we're better." Rather than trying to bury emotions and pretend they aren't there, the Jedi are about accepting those negative emotions and then moving past them to the zen moment, and using that peaceful moment to make the right decision.
Karen Traviss wrote a nice series of books based around how some clones had similar feelings, and some jedi as well. Of course all of that got de-cannonized, (some of it needed to, there were some "eh" moments). Nice to see the theme revive.
How she considers herself probably matters more. Kanan believes himself to be a Jedi, so he is a Jedi. Luke believes himself to be a Jedi, so he's a Jedi.
Tano refuses to acknowledge that she is a Jedi, despite having superior training to Kanan and dare I say it? Luke.At least more formal.
So... because she doesn't see herself as a Jedi, she isn't a Jedi.
maybe. I dunno, thoughts?
TLDR at the bottom.
Most of the Force powers tend to "run" on the dichotomy between their latent force-attunement and their personality.
My own theory is that * Every. Single. Power. * from pushes to mind control, and even the light-saber combat stems from a mix of the two.
The Force Attunement is just your familiarity with, and ability to tap into the Force. To some it comes naturally, others need lots of hard work, but in the end it's just a power level; raw power.
The personality of the the user is what shapes the Force they have access to; like a casting mold. A more aggressive personality will channel their Force into light-saber combat and offensive powers; but even those will draw on their personality to take shape. A more peace-cored person will find it easier to use healing, meditation, animal communication, and more "playful" applications of the Force.
This is why I think some Force powers are forbidden to the Jedi. To cast Force lighting at a person, you have to first have the calm focus to use the Force in the first place, and second you must want to hit that person with lighting deep inside your core personality, fully understanding and desiring the pain and possible fatal injury you will cause them.
So less "Are you powerful enough to cast a lighting bolt?" and more "Do you really want to hit a living creature with a bolt of lightning?". Understandably a dangerous mindset for a Jedi.
Some other questions.
"I don't think it's right to alter people's memories." -3 Force Mind Trick
"Most people don't die from Jedi-inflicted light-saber wounds; they lose an arm at worst, and that's better than killing them." +1 Light-saber Combat
"I have zero moral conflicts over shocking that guy to death with electricity. It is the right thing to do, because it benefits me." +10 Force Lighting
Food for thought, but that's enough divergence from the original topic.
I think that whether or not you think of yourself a certain way has a great bearing over whether or not the Force perceives you that way. So yes, if Asoka doesn't see herself as a Jedi, she cannot become one. The difference in powers is esoteric at best, but it probably means that Jedi-created artifacts will recognize that she does not see herself as a Jedi, and will not permit entry. Warped persons with a Jedi self-image on the other hand. . . C'baoth.
I think the Force is like a mirror: what you see is what you get.
Edited by OneKelvinI like that Seventh Sister prefers brains over good looks. It's good that she's not superficial.
I like that Seventh Sister prefers brains over good looks. It's good that she's not superficial.
I loved that scene! They almost sounded married!
Coincidence... definitely...
I like that Seventh Sister prefers brains over good looks. It's good that she's not superficial.
I'm going to take a moment to say that she is SO hot.
Amazing episode, thats what I expected from the mid-season trailer! I can't wait for them finding Malachor (that had already been canonized by a TFA-realated book), I am almost certain that that is where the series starts lightly playing onto the ST.
No episode next week and I have bad feelings about "The Forgotten Droid" and the following episode...
Bonus: (SPOILER ALERT although one might have figured out that something like this is gonna happen based on the mid-season trailer and the last episode):
They really are drawing heavily on the KoTOR material, aren't they? Hammerhead Corvettes, Malachor V, the aesthetics of the Sith Temple in the trailer, the very strong parallel between the fall of Revan and his followers in the Mandalorian Wars and their portrayal of the fall of the Jedi in the Clone Wars... When they're flying towards the Interdictor they're even playing KoTOR II's Nar Shardaa track.
Karen Traviss wrote a nice series of books based around how some clones had similar feelings, and some jedi as well. Of course all of that got de-cannonized, (some of it needed to, there were some "eh" moments). Nice to see the theme revive.
We're talking the book series where anyone exposed to Mandalorians is doomed to ditch their previous ideals and become one, right?
It's less a blockade of Mandalore and more an Imperial Quarantine Zone.
Edited by Blue FiveDude, I know I'd become a Mandalorian as soon as I could get my hands on some armor.
Karen Traviss wrote a nice series of books based around how some clones had similar feelings, and some jedi as well. Of course all of that got de-cannonized, (some of it needed to, there were some "eh" moments). Nice to see the theme revive.
You mean the books where she made the Mandalorians into the perfect society while demonizing the Jedi?
Finally managed to see the episode. Loved it. This is where rebels should go, deeper in to the lore.
Dude, I know I'd become a Mandalorian as soon as I could get my hands on some armor.
She made out the Mandalorians (a society of raiders/mercenaries) out as a flawless society which pretty much her entire main cast ultimately joined. And when I say entire, I mean it: the finale of the last book involves just about every character she had full control over joining (sometimes out of nowhere) apart from the one that got shot. And she'd joined already. You'd think you were reading the Killik book.
I much prefer the new canon's depiction.
Holy crap what a great episode.
AND SERIOUSLY MALACHOR GOT CANONIZED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also, what the guy above me said.
It was canonised in TCW and it's been used as an expletive throughout both TCW and SWR.
This isn't an out of nowhere recanonisation, they've built up to it. I get the feeling Dave Filoni's team like KotOR II, from the blatant Hammerheads to the KotOR II score in the Interdictor episode.
They've also (and this is brilliant) appeared to draw heavily on Revan's fall to explain the Fall of Jedi. Season 2 of Rebels seems to be drawing a lot of Clone Wars/Mandalorian Wars parallels.
Edited by Blue FiveI much prefer the new canon's depiction.
It wouldn't take much to be an improvement over the books you're talking about.
Completely unrelated to almost anything... Reading this thread on Thursday is tricky, and I avoid it to a point. Wednesday night is when I play X-Wing, Armada or Imp Assault at the LGS so I don't get to see Rebels until later in the week.
Holy crap what a great episode.
AND SERIOUSLY MALACHOR GOT CANONIZED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also, what the guy above me said.
Here's to hoping for Revan. Oh man that would be awesome. Revan 'almost' made it into the Clone Wars according to Dave Filoni, so I think chances are good he'll try to bring him into Rebels.
Revan's art was already made in the clone wars, just never made it to the screen
-i couldn't find the nicer high-res version on the SW website