The latest clip from the next rebels episode, man I can't believe Cham just dissed chopper like that! Dude has just gone wwwwaaaayyyy down in my opinion

Tarkin: You would prefer another target? A military target? Then name the system!

So per his own words, Alderaan is not a military target and was picked Alderaan as leverage over Leia and as a demonstration. There is no other justification given. That whole thing was done in large as a way of demonstrating just how evil the Empire really was.

I think the question mark in this sentence is being misconstrued. Tarkin is simply saying that if she wants it to be another target, that the alternate target has to be military (otherwise it is not a suitable alternative for Alderaan). It doesn't automatically preclude the idea of Alderaan also being a military target.

So, Tarkin isn't writing Alderaan off as a civilian target. It was definitely chosen as a demonstration and as a punishment, but the Empire knew that Alderaan was giving material aid to the Rebellion. Leia's protestations that Alderaan was "peaceful" was technically untrue if they were supplying war material for the Alliance, even if they were only producing core components like unarmed ships that they knew would be retrofitted as combat vessels later.

I mean, no political stance alone would justify destroying a populated planet, so the Death Star destroying Alderaan was evil any way you slice it. But Tarkin's line was merely telling Leia that she had to suggest a better military target (the Rebel base) if she wanted to save Alderaan. The fact that he blew up Alderaan anyway showed that the Empire placed significant interest in the psychological value of the first target. Alderaan was a statement. "If you support the Rebellion, we will blow you up." However, for that statement to be effective, there has to at least be some kind of tangible link to the Rebellion. Otherwise, the statement is "We're going to blow you up if we even think you're helping the rebels". That doesn't provide a disincentive. If you're likely going to be punished anyway, there is significantly less reason not to commit the crime.

Tarkin doesn't say Alderaan is a legitimate military target but he'll go after after another military target namely the rebel HQ instead if Leia tells him where it is.

Instead he says that he will go after a military target if Leia tells him where it is thus stating that Alderaan is not a military target.

And when he gives the order to destroy it he doesn't say anything about its military value. Instead he says it is because the military target is to remote to demonstrate his weapon's power.

In short there is no evidence at all that Tarkin thought of Alderaan as a military target.

Even the Hammerhead Corvettes are almost certainly a civilian design rather then a military one. If the weapons loadout given on Wookieepedia is correct their armament is pathetic even for an armed civilian vessel of their class. It would be an absolute joke for a warship that size

But you can absolutely spin blowing up a planet to make it sound like you're the good guys.

Not going to get into real history... But no you can't not in this case, not without lying about it.

I don't think you understand what "spin" means...

The latest clip from the next rebels episode, man I can't believe Cham just dissed chopper like that! Dude has just gone wwwwaaaayyyy down in my opinion

I've never really liked Cham. Sure he's fighting to liberate his home, but he's just such an @$$, even to his own daughter.

This would be a good episode to finally kill a good character and, if they choose the right one, would provide for some good character development for Hera.

Tarkin: You would prefer another target? A military target? Then name the system!

So per his own words, Alderaan is not a military target and was picked Alderaan as leverage over Leia and as a demonstration. There is no other justification given. That whole thing was done in large as a way of demonstrating just how evil the Empire really was.

I think the question mark in this sentence is being misconstrued. Tarkin is simply saying that if she wants it to be another target, that the alternate target has to be military (otherwise it is not a suitable alternative for Alderaan). It doesn't automatically preclude the idea of Alderaan also being a military target.

So, Tarkin isn't writing Alderaan off as a civilian target. It was definitely chosen as a demonstration and as a punishment, but the Empire knew that Alderaan was giving material aid to the Rebellion. Leia's protestations that Alderaan was "peaceful" was technically untrue if they were supplying war material for the Alliance, even if they were only producing core components like unarmed ships that they knew would be retrofitted as combat vessels later.

I mean, no political stance alone would justify destroying a populated planet, so the Death Star destroying Alderaan was evil any way you slice it. But Tarkin's line was merely telling Leia that she had to suggest a better military target (the Rebel base) if she wanted to save Alderaan. The fact that he blew up Alderaan anyway showed that the Empire placed significant interest in the psychological value of the first target. Alderaan was a statement. "If you support the Rebellion, we will blow you up." However, for that statement to be effective, there has to at least be some kind of tangible link to the Rebellion. Otherwise, the statement is "We're going to blow you up if we even think you're helping the rebels". That doesn't provide a disincentive. If you're likely going to be punished anyway, there is significantly less reason not to commit the crime.

Tarkin doesn't say Alderaan is a legitimate military target but he'll go after after another military target namely the rebel HQ instead if Leia tells him where it is.

Instead he says that he will go after a military target if Leia tells him where it is thus stating that Alderaan is not a military target.

And when he gives the order to destroy it he doesn't say anything about its military value. Instead he says it is because the military target is to remote to demonstrate his weapon's power.

In short there is no evidence at all that Tarkin thought of Alderaan as a military target.

Even the Hammerhead Corvettes are almost certainly a civilian design rather then a military one. If the weapons loadout given on Wookieepedia is correct their armament is pathetic even for an armed civilian vessel of their class. It would be an absolute joke for a warship that size

Orignal Novelization stated Alderaan had defensive planetary weapons just as strong as any core world. Leia lies almost as much as Kenobi

A legitimate argument for the dropping of the bombs can be made. Hiroshima was actually an industrial and military center for imperial Japan of substantial size.

There is also the actually and genuinely unthinkable projected casualties for Operation Downfall , the scope of that invasion would make the European theater look like peanuts in comparison.

Not to get too political, but I believe that it's wrong to knowingly cause civilian casualties during war. And those two bombs killed A LOT of civilians.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. What was it that Obi-Wan said? "From a certain point of view"? They're a non-governmental force that uses force and the threat of force to attempt political change, that's textbook terrorism. Doesn't matter whether you agree with them or not.

Tarkin: You would prefer another target? A military target? Then name the system!

So per his own words, Alderaan is not a military target and was picked Alderaan as leverage over Leia and as a demonstration. There is no other justification given. That whole thing was done in large as a way of demonstrating just how evil the Empire really was.

I think the question mark in this sentence is being misconstrued. Tarkin is simply saying that if she wants it to be another target, that the alternate target has to be military (otherwise it is not a suitable alternative for Alderaan). It doesn't automatically preclude the idea of Alderaan also being a military target.

So, Tarkin isn't writing Alderaan off as a civilian target. It was definitely chosen as a demonstration and as a punishment, but the Empire knew that Alderaan was giving material aid to the Rebellion. Leia's protestations that Alderaan was "peaceful" was technically untrue if they were supplying war material for the Alliance, even if they were only producing core components like unarmed ships that they knew would be retrofitted as combat vessels later.

I mean, no political stance alone would justify destroying a populated planet, so the Death Star destroying Alderaan was evil any way you slice it. But Tarkin's line was merely telling Leia that she had to suggest a better military target (the Rebel base) if she wanted to save Alderaan. The fact that he blew up Alderaan anyway showed that the Empire placed significant interest in the psychological value of the first target. Alderaan was a statement. "If you support the Rebellion, we will blow you up." However, for that statement to be effective, there has to at least be some kind of tangible link to the Rebellion. Otherwise, the statement is "We're going to blow you up if we even think you're helping the rebels". That doesn't provide a disincentive. If you're likely going to be punished anyway, there is significantly less reason not to commit the crime.

Tarkin doesn't say Alderaan is a legitimate military target but he'll go after after another military target namely the rebel HQ instead if Leia tells him where it is.

Instead he says that he will go after a military target if Leia tells him where it is thus stating that Alderaan is not a military target.

And when he gives the order to destroy it he doesn't say anything about its military value. Instead he says it is because the military target is to remote to demonstrate his weapon's power.

In short there is no evidence at all that Tarkin thought of Alderaan as a military target.

Even the Hammerhead Corvettes are almost certainly a civilian design rather then a military one. If the weapons loadout given on Wookieepedia is correct their armament is pathetic even for an armed civilian vessel of their class. It would be an absolute joke for a warship that size

Step 1: Obtain any civilian craft

Step 2: Give it to some Mon Cals or Verpines

Step 3: Watch it destroy any military designed Imperial warship.

At the very least Alderaan's un-elected government was supporting the rebellion in leadership, material and logistics on a major scale. Bail knew the risks and his people paid the price. The Empire knew of Alderaan's complicity in aiding the rebels and decided to send a message. Completely evil and unjustified, but it was not completely out of the blue.

A legitimate argument for the dropping of the bombs can be made. Hiroshima was actually an industrial and military center for imperial Japan of substantial size.

There is also the actually and genuinely unthinkable projected casualties for Operation Downfall , the scope of that invasion would make the European theater look like peanuts in comparison.

Not to get too political, but I believe that it's wrong to knowingly cause civilian casualties during war. And those two bombs killed A LOT of civilians.

For another controversial example: Dresden .

Look Leia's "haven't got any weapons" is obviously her trying to persuade Tarkin, not telling the audience that the planet is some pacifist utopea. Alderan obviously had SOME weapons. Nothing that's a threat to a planet destroying super weapon, but armed ships and personal weapons. Leia's official senatorial ship from alderan was armed, and had armed guards. And in other cannon the ships Alderan supplied to the lothal rebels were pretty heavily armed for transports.
This should be reinforced by the prequels. "peaceful" naboo still has a core of star fighters and armed palace guards.

The narritive of starwars has always been about an "evil empire" and "plucky freedom fighters". But that doesnt change the fact that those freedom fighters are by definition terrorists, and that not everyone in the empire is evil. The Empire has clearly been heavily inspired by Nazi Germany. Look at how indoctrination and propoganda changed the civilian and military perceptions in that situation. But then remember that there were still officers in the german army who tried to work against Hitler and his order. Men who gave their lives, trying to assassinate him or subvert his controle. Where they evil? Where the guys to terrified to fight againt them evil? No. But if you believe the cause of 'freedom' if right, you have to accept that those poor guys are the ones you have to go through to kill the evil scum at the top.
Guy's like Captain Needa just get killed by both sides.

In short there is no evidence at all that Tarkin thought of Alderaan as a military target.

All Tarkin asks for is a military target as an alternative to Alderaan. The only line that supports the idea that Alderaan is a non-military target comes from Leia, who isn't a trustworthy source since we know she was lying.

The way he worded "You would prefer another target, a military target" proves that he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Otherwise he would have just said "You would prefer another target?" or "You would prefer another military target?"

By wording his reply the way he did Tarkin shows that there is a clear line between his current target of Alderaan and a military target.

There's also the fact he doesn't disagree when Leia says Alderaan has no weapons.

What evidence is there that he considered Alderaan a military target? And him being willing to destroy it doesn't count.

A legitimate argument for the dropping of the bombs can be made. Hiroshima was actually an industrial and military center for imperial Japan of substantial size.

There is also the actually and genuinely unthinkable projected casualties for Operation Downfall , the scope of that invasion would make the European theater look like peanuts in comparison.

Not to get too political, but I believe that it's wrong to knowingly cause civilian casualties during war. And those two bombs killed A LOT of civilians.

For another controversial example: Dresden .

In am era of unguided bombs massive civilian casualties were inevitable. And fire bombing killed far more than the only two instances of nukes used in anger. No one but psychopaths would ever condone war so I'm not even gonna argue about the 'if we didn't nuke em they wouldn't have surrendered' route cause no matter what good people died, real people, millions in the most horrible living hell we called WWII. We've been living in a screwed up post apocolyptic world since.

Anyway, modern warfare by tech savvy forces does try to avoid civilian casualties to the point that military commanders are held responsible for even one death in some circumstances.

What Tarkin did was destroying a culture, a people, a history, telling the people of the galaxy that anyone was expendable. War crimes and terror, rule by fear. Tarkin was a truly evil villain.

The way he worded "You would prefer another target, a military target" proves that he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Otherwise he would have just said "You would prefer another target?" or "You would prefer another military target?"

By wording his reply the way he did Tarkin shows that there is a clear line between his current target of Alderaan and a military target.

There's also the fact he doesn't disagree when Leia says Alderaan has no weapons.

What evidence is there that he considered Alderaan a military target? And him being willing to destroy it doesn't count.

Asking for a second military target doesn't prove Alderaan isn't one. It proves he doesn't want her wasting his time suggesting uninhabited worlds like Skaro or Endor.

By wording it was clear he saw Alderaan as a tactical threat needing to be dealt with but not the only threat so he was pushing for more information and leading her on to get it.

He also doesn't respond to her whining lie about no weapons because he isn't there to bicker. He's there to obtain the location of the rebel base and blow up Alderaan. They flew the Death Star to Alderaan. They were going to blow it up no matter what she said. They just wanted something useful out of her before they did it.

The way he worded "You would prefer another target, a military target" proves that he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Otherwise he would have just said "You would prefer another target?" or "You would prefer another military target?"

By wording his reply the way he did Tarkin shows that there is a clear line between his current target of Alderaan and a military target.

There's also the fact he doesn't disagree when Leia says Alderaan has no weapons.

What evidence is there that he considered Alderaan a military target? And him being willing to destroy it doesn't count.

The way he worded "You would prefer another target, a military target" proves that he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Otherwise he would have just said "You would prefer another target?" or "You would prefer another military target?"

By wording his reply the way he did Tarkin shows that there is a clear line between his current target of Alderaan and a military target.

There's also the fact he doesn't disagree when Leia says Alderaan has no weapons.

What evidence is there that he considered Alderaan a military target? And him being willing to destroy it doesn't count.

But Alderaan is peaceful, we have no weapons! (Because we let the rebels 'steal' them all)

I think Tarkin was pissed off that some Alderaanian chick dumped him years ago, Leia and the rebellion just gave him an excuse.

The way he worded "You would prefer another target, a military target" proves that he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Otherwise he would have just said "You would prefer another target?" or "You would prefer another military target?"

By wording his reply the way he did Tarkin shows that there is a clear line between his current target of Alderaan and a military target.

There's also the fact he doesn't disagree when Leia says Alderaan has no weapons.

What evidence is there that he considered Alderaan a military target? And him being willing to destroy it doesn't count.

Asking for a second military target doesn't prove Alderaan isn't one. It proves he doesn't want her wasting his time suggesting uninhabited worlds like Skaro or Endor.

By wording it was clear he saw Alderaan as a tactical threat needing to be dealt with but not the only threat so he was pushing for more information and leading her on to get it.

He also doesn't respond to her whining lie about no weapons because he isn't there to bicker. He's there to obtain the location of the rebel base and blow up Alderaan. They flew the Death Star to Alderaan. They were going to blow it up no matter what she said. They just wanted something useful out of her before they did it.

He doesn't ask for a second military target.

He says he will go for a military target if she gives him the location which means Alderaan can not be a military target. How hard is that to get through your head?

There is no reason for him to say "another target" and than add the "a military target" bit if he considered Alderaan a military target.He would have just left it at "You would would prefer another target? Then name the system." unless he was making it clear that there is a distinction between Aderaan and a military target thus making Alderaan a non-military target.

And the reason they flew the Death Star to Alderaan wasn't because he saw it as a threat. It was because he felt Alderaan was the best planet to threaten in order to get the reaction he wanted from Leia.

And the reason they flew the Death Star to Alderaan wasn't because he saw it as a threat. It was because he felt Alderaan was the best planet to threaten in order to get the reaction he wanted from Leia.

Probably true though I suppose if Rebel HQ would have been located on a world he considered an effective demonstration he might have held back. And I doubt any concerns about travel crossed his mind.

It doesn't change the fact that nothing shows evidence of Tarkin considering Alderaan a military target while his own words show evidence of him not considering it a military target.

Leia was resistant to the mind probe. She knew her life was already forfeit. Tarkin needed the location and of the rebel base before the rebels could use the DS plans to find a way to attack. Alderaan was thus chosen as the target. Strategically Alderaan wasn't important other than funneling weapons and equipment to the rebels...it wasnt the only world to do so (Raltiir). It was not a valid military target for the DS. A full planetary invasion and occupatiOn like Raltiir would have been more ligit.

Orignal Novelization stated Alderaan had defensive planetary weapons just as strong as any core world.

Said "defences" not "defensive weapons" - raising the possibility that it was a shield that was being talked about.

And scenes from novelizations are subject to retconning in any case - Owen as Ben's brother, the idea that the Forest Moon's host planet had been destroyed long before, and so on.

The way he worded "You would prefer another target, a military target" proves that he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Otherwise he would have just said "You would prefer another target?" or "You would prefer another military target?"

By wording his reply the way he did Tarkin shows that there is a clear line between his current target of Alderaan and a military target.

There's also the fact he doesn't disagree when Leia says Alderaan has no weapons.

What evidence is there that he considered Alderaan a military target? And him being willing to destroy it doesn't count.

Asking for a second military target doesn't prove Alderaan isn't one. It proves he doesn't want her wasting his time suggesting uninhabited worlds like Skaro or Endor.

By wording it was clear he saw Alderaan as a tactical threat needing to be dealt with but not the only threat so he was pushing for more information and leading her on to get it.

He also doesn't respond to her whining lie about no weapons because he isn't there to bicker. He's there to obtain the location of the rebel base and blow up Alderaan. They flew the Death Star to Alderaan. They were going to blow it up no matter what she said. They just wanted something useful out of her before they did it.

He doesn't ask for a second military target.

He says he will go for a military target if she gives him the location which means Alderaan can not be a military target. How hard is that to get through your head?

There is no reason for him to say "another target" and than add the "a military target" bit if he considered Alderaan a military target.He would have just left it at "You would would prefer another target? Then name the system." unless he was making it clear that there is a distinction between Aderaan and a military target thus making Alderaan a non-military target.

And the reason they flew the Death Star to Alderaan wasn't because he saw it as a threat. It was because he felt Alderaan was the best planet to threaten in order to get the reaction he wanted from Leia.

There is a reason for him not to simply say "another target" and I already explained it. Just because you disagree doesn't make it invalid or incorrect. He doesn't want a drawn out conversation or bickering. He wants a serious and truthful answer. His dialogue to her was to get the answer from her as quickly as possible so he can get back to business, not to provide in depth exposition to the audience.

Tarkin doesn't monologue.

No there is not. He makes a clear distinction between Alderaan and a military target. He then asks specifically for the location of the rebel base. If Alderaan was a military target then there is no logical reason for him to make that distinction.

Occam's Razor. Your theory assumes Tarkin considered Alderaan a military target, then assumes that his distinction between Alderaan and a military target is meaningless before assuming that the reason he didn't claim Alderaan was a military target verbally is he didn't feel like debating the point despite him defending Alderaan as a military target being the only way to communicate the idea it is a military target to the audience. Finally you assume he makes the distinction between Alderaan and a military target to avoid being sent to an empty system despite him stating specifically what location he wants a couple of sentences later.

My theory assumes that his distinction between Alderaan and a military target means he did not consider Alderaan a military target. Guess which idea has fewer assumptions.

I'd love to say this is the most tedious argument I've read on the internet today, but sadly I think its only the 3rd or 4th most.

I'd love to say this is the most tedious argument I've read on the internet today, but sadly I think its only the 3rd or 4th most.

Yeah what a complete waste of time. It doesn't even matter whether Alderaan was a military target or not. It got destroyed because it was in the script. And of course the Empire are the evil bad guys and the Rebels are not terrorists. Terrorists attack civilian targets to maximize fear amongst a population. The Rebels attack only the DS in episode 4 and 6, and are therefore not terrorists, but revolutionaries. They are the Good guys fighting the evil bad Empire. And you know what? That's ok! I play almost exclusively Empire and I'm cool with that. You can think the bad guys are cool. But that doesn't make them any less evil or the good guys into less than good guys.

Also on a totally different and way more relevant note, the data bank finally named those awesome Mandalorian fighters. They are called Fang Fighters. Pretty cool addition to Scum and Empire when they come out!

www.starwars.com/databank/fang-fighter