Really the prequel trilogy can be broken down into emo teenager whines and tantrums his way to being massive villain. So many missed opportunities with the writing of the Anakin to Vader" story.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally imagine a stroppy teenager with too much power going that way, imjust think it made for a poor story, poorly told.

Unless your of a certain age (and probably then in the same boat as me) you have no idea how gutted I was to wait all those long years to find out how Vader came to be and be served with that garbage.

Yeah, but, I mean...Vader was whiny. If not for having James Earl Jone's massively deep voice to offset the dialog, much of what we hear Vader going on about is basically whining. I mean, a bit less than Anakin, sure, but he's also 20 years older at that point, so...

For real, imagine Hayden Christensen with the lines...

"Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?"

"I want that ship, not excuses!"

"There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you."

"That name no longer has any meaning for me!"

...etc

Whining is basically the same thing as threatening. You're demanding something with unpleasant consequences for failure. The difference is, Vader threatened with magic throat crushing; Anakin threatened to be more annoying.

The primary failing of his fall in the prequels is that he's never really given a compelling reason to go to the Dark Side; certainly not one that resonates with the audience. There's never the promise of power and the corrupting influence of getting what you want through (the?) force. Even the few bits he has like "Jedi are forbidden to love" come across as hamfisted and cliche.

But I think that's part of where the EU went off the rails, in assuming those who go to the Dark Side do so for power . It's pretty much rampant in the EU, but it flies directly against the only dialog we have of it in the show.

"Is the Dark Side stronger?" "No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

Nothing about being 'more power', there. Indeed, the only guidance Yoda really gives as to what leads TO it...

"Yoda: Afraid to lose her I think, hmm?

Anakin: What has that got to do with anything?

Yoda: Everything! Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you."

(Or if you insist on the OT version - "But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.")

Again, nothing about 'craving power'. The path to the Dark Side, at least as presented on-screen (and as noted, the EU really jumped the shark on this) is all about being afraid . It's the path not of the strong, but of cowards and the weak.

It's the path not of the strong, but of cowards and the weak.

That is one thing SWTOR did right with the Sith. They actually give you a reason to pick the dark side, besides being able to kick puppies.

I know that it is not canon, not sure it's even Legends since LFL won't really address what it is.

But in there, the dark side is all about freedom, the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want, but also the freedom from others controlling you.

The whole sith empire in SWTOR is really kinda based around the idea of social darwinism. It's only though struggle that people can achieve their full potential.

I really should finish watching TCW at some point. Think I only made it to season 3 but many say the later stuff is better?

If you're in Season 3, you should already be in the "better" stuff by now.

Isn't that still more powerful though?

If, for example, you have a limit to how powerful you'll become as a Jedi. And the Dark Side won't make you more powerful than that, but it will get you there quicker and easier, doesn't that mean the Dark Side is still making you more powerful NOW?

I imagine that's how a lot of falling to the Dark Side occurs.

"This Sith just killed my master. I can't wait 10 years to reach my full power. I need to be strong enough to avenge him NOW!" and so on.

Self doubt and impatience. Absolutely need for power now as opposed to later.

I agree the darkside isn't more powerful but it is easier power. I'd presume an equally gifted force sensitive would get to the same sort of limit on either path but the one on the dark side would perhaps get there quicker. The down side to that easier route seems to be a certain lack of mental stability. You are far more likely to 'lose yourself' on the dark path and be changed by your power rather than truely controlling it.

Starting the team... **** you Zeb... hard one to do in Emotes size.

I figure get the hard to do guy done first... Chops is next.

Self doubt and impatience. Absolutely need for power now as opposed to later.

I agree the darkside isn't more powerful but it is easier power. I'd presume an equally gifted force sensitive would get to the same sort of limit on either path but the one on the dark side would perhaps get there quicker. The down side to that easier route seems to be a certain lack of mental stability. You are far more likely to 'lose yourself' on the dark path and be changed by your power rather than truely controlling it.

This may be true for 90% of Sith, but what about Sheev himself? He was both completely stable (confirmed my a medical study) and really really patient. Palps never doubted himself for one second, even when driven into a corner. Is he more of an abberation?

Self doubt and impatience. Absolutely need for power now as opposed to later.

I agree the darkside isn't more powerful but it is easier power. I'd presume an equally gifted force sensitive would get to the same sort of limit on either path but the one on the dark side would perhaps get there quicker. The down side to that easier route seems to be a certain lack of mental stability. You are far more likely to 'lose yourself' on the dark path and be changed by your power rather than truely controlling it.

This may be true for 90% of Sith, but what about Sheev himself? He was both completely stable (confirmed my a medical study) and really really patient. Palps never doubted himself for one second, even when driven into a corner. Is he more of an abberation?

He does seem to have absolute control of his darkness though. A true master of the dark side which I do think would be rare. Maybe he is an aberration. Maybe I'm just wrong lol!

Edit.. Maybe Sheev was changed by the darknes just as much though. He has control of it for sure but perhaps he isn't the same person that started out learning the force?

Don't get me wrong, I can totally imagine a stroppy teenager with too much power going that way, imjust think it made for a poor story, poorly told.

I agree, but the issue was mostly one of timing. They rushed it way too much,

Having watched TFA I think you have nailed it.

Don't want to say more than that but I'm sure anyone who has seen the movie will get it.

Self doubt and impatience. Absolutely need for power now as opposed to later.

I agree the darkside isn't more powerful but it is easier power. I'd presume an equally gifted force sensitive would get to the same sort of limit on either path but the one on the dark side would perhaps get there quicker. The down side to that easier route seems to be a certain lack of mental stability. You are far more likely to 'lose yourself' on the dark path and be changed by your power rather than truely controlling it.

The thing about the Dark Side is that it seems that everybody who treads the path loses themselves.

Which to me, playing Knights of the Old Republic , just seemed like irony. An irony that I enjoyed: The Jedi seek to become slaves to the Force, but remain largely themselves. The Sith seek to become the masters of their own destinies, to pursue their freedom no matter the cost... and in so doing become slaves to the Force.

(And thus my preference for being grey.)

In any case, I don't think we know enough about the Emperor to know why he went to the Dark Side. As far as I know, all that we know is that he was tutored by Darth Plagueis and never received any Jedi training (unlike every other canon Dark Sider we know more than a name about from Dooku to Asajj and Quinlan to Anakin).

OK...I can finally read this thread again. I watched all of The Clone Wars...in proper order (thanks for that). I've now caught up with Star Wars Rebels. Good stuff! My son and I are excited.

Binged in the OT in prep to watch TFA tonight and I was a bit surprised how much of the Ayn Rand style "self progress vs communal strength" felt like an EU addition created by games and such dividing abilities into traditional notions of good and evil and not something present in Empire or Jedi. There's more a sense from the films that the Force simply rushes power to moments of fear, anger, and hate and that such a mental state is a dangerous place to wield that kind of power. There's a sense of the addictive and corruptive nature of power, but it doesn't even seem to be what drives Vader nor the danger Luke faces. It's something I'd like to ponder more, but I'm curious to see what Episode VII adds to the conversation before I say more.

Starting the team... **** you Zeb... hard one to do in Emotes size.

I figure get the hard to do guy done first... Chops is next.

CHOPPER... Hurray!

I had to resize Zeb too, after looking at him again compared to all of my other Boss Emotes.

So Vader shows up to get rebels off Lothal, but doesn't stick around to catch the Jedi who were there. Lothal is somehow more important that Jedi.

What the heck is so important about Lothal?

It's hinted that it's a key manufacturing facility for next generation TIES.

So it's basically Area 51.

Lothal has a Jedi temple with the lightsaber crystals in it and they need a load of those to power a particular super weapon

Lothal has a Jedi temple with the lightsaber crystals in it and they need a load of those to power a particular super weapon

Ah, makes sense. Thinking back there actually were quite a few hints in that direction.

Self doubt and impatience. Absolutely need for power now as opposed to later.

I agree the darkside isn't more powerful but it is easier power. I'd presume an equally gifted force sensitive would get to the same sort of limit on either path but the one on the dark side would perhaps get there quicker. The down side to that easier route seems to be a certain lack of mental stability. You are far more likely to 'lose yourself' on the dark path and be changed by your power rather than truely controlling it.

One thing that's great about the Clone Wars is that it shows the actual reason Anakin turned dark: his temper. In a couple of eps he'd lose it and give in to the urge to strangle/torture/kill. When he gets pushed too far (usually when Ahsoka/Padme get kidnapped/threatened) there's this great palpable mood change where the whole Jedi "be calm and think about things" mumbo-jumbo disappears, and Annie gets angry and gets **** done. As the series progresses, you see it a little at first, then more and more often. He gets frustrated easily and loses it, and it happens more and more. Makes the series far superior to the ep. 1-3 movies.

Also adds more to his disatisfaction with the Jedi Order.

Ok, how long before someone makes cards using images from the show and how much will they charge for a set so I can buy them?

Ask and ye shall receive.

These are low-res versions for the web. If you want high-res ones suitable for printing, drop me a PM. Print them onto decent stock paper/card and stick them in a sleeve over a real crew card, and you'll be set for casual games.

I may have also made versions of Sabine and Hera using rather fetching images of cosplayers. They're for my own use though.

Edit: And, obviously, no charge. Use 'em and have fun.

I mean, low res or not.

Those look infinitely better already.

Thanks, Cap'n L.

You may or may not also appreciate some cards I came up with. I was feeling creative over the weekend... I won't repost them; here's a link to the thread they're in.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/197062-post-you-custom-cards-here/?p=1968661

Is it just me, or was there supposed to be a new episode tonight? I thought it was the 6th for some reason, now I can't seem to find what the date is.

Is it just me, or was there supposed to be a new episode tonight? I thought it was the 6th for some reason, now I can't seem to find what the date is.

Checked my Tivo, I do not see a new one next week either. Checked the net, did not see a date for the new one there either...

Is it just me, or was there supposed to be a new episode tonight? I thought it was the 6th for some reason, now I can't seem to find what the date is.

Checked my Tivo, I do not see a new one next week either. Checked the net, did not see a date for the new one there either...

Definitely a rerun here, Future of the Force.

We will have to wait until next week...