I tell you the same thing I wrote Darth, you have to be more specific and go through every quote and explain why they contradict new material.

Spoiler alert, no he doesn't.

Hey guess what, if someone wants to actully counter the presented evidence they have to counter every individual point presented.

I don't really want to get dragged into this but there is ONLY canon, they explicitly said everything else was "legends".

It may feel good but saying "as it was in EU and hasn't been re-explained since, that means EU has merit" is fallacious thinking. As someone else said, "the stuff of legends" is rarely accurate so you can't default to that as a valid answer, except into the mirror.

The "owners" of the lore set the rules, not the fans. If it's not in Disney Canon, it's not real (within, of course, the context of it being complete fantasy).

Did you also see the other comments made by the people working at lfl that shows "canon" means something diffrent to them than it does to the fanbase?

Guys, if you are going to continue to argue with BKL, you need to know one very important fact. To him, "canon" = "licensed". Which isn't even close to the truth, but he doesn't understand the concept of trademarks. It is a futile effort.

So, I will continue to enjoy the white bars.

But, back to the show, looking forward to Ketsu Ohnyo and some Sabine backstory.

Be warned, sithborg likes to make up fake reasons why not to listen to me about canon. Hes sore that fox and people for fox keep saying that every alien, predator, avp, prometheus story thats in a comic, game, movie, or novel is canon.

Btw since you want to bring up licensing, they made it a point to show in the latest bluray alien set that the four mentioned mediums are more than just merchandise, everything else is just merchandise.

If i were to go through each point i'd be here all day, and not playing halo. Love you guys but that's a sacrifice that isn't being made. I'll address the last none though: Star wars Ranks and ship sizes/names are all over the place.

Star Destroyers are battlecruisers

Corvettes are sometimes frigates.

Cruisers are sometimes corvettes.

In certain bars, women are sometimes men.

Under that armour, men are sometimes women.

And old Canon is not worth discussing. Yeah, we see x-wings etc get taken out all the time by onne-2 bursts. That doesn't mean anything. Spoiler: IT NEVER DID. Shields have been explained in different ways, seperate particle and ray shields, ECM, dispersal... For all you know, that A-wing's rear shields were down.

I'd love some old canon to be true and followed - notably elite stormtroopers and TIE Pilots. We can't always get what we want. All we can hope for are a few gems from an unforgotten era (Thrawn, DX-9s, Gunboats etc).

Also: OF COURSE DARTH VADER ONE SHOTS Y-WINGS! He's MFING DARTH VADER He gets the ATC CRIT which either direct hits, hull breaches or explosions.

Also the v1 has more powerful lasers than the standard tie, we see the x1 do even more damage than the v1. The interceptor is carrying 4 much larger versions of the weapons used in the x1.

Still no one comments or acknowledge that B-Wings are taken down with a single beam, or extremely fast by Interceptors, said B-Wings not only have heavy shielding but can survive multiple hits from point defense lasers from star destroyers but interceptors just down them really fast. Or interceptors one beam killing an a-wing in ep 6, and more than likely a bunch of other craft. When the first wave arrived at the start of the battle, there were alot of expolsions as they went through the reb fighters.

Also ffg has them listed as having heavy lasers.

Really dont see why everyone is dragging their feet over the fact interceptors have heavy laser cannons and in every medium they show them obliterating whatever they are firing at. Excluding avengers and defenders you dont see other ties doing the same, so obviously the stuff i bring up isnt just stuff made up just to have a cool scene.

Again, ATC crit - hull breach. But whatever, ignore the key (humerous and gave relevant) part of my post if you want. I don't actually care.

I did comment RE the interceptor if you look. All you are doing here is proving you don't actually read arguments. Here. I'll repaste it in bold for you.

And old Canon is not worth discussing. Yeah, we see x-wings etc get taken out all the time by onne-2 bursts. That doesn't mean anything. Spoiler: IT NEVER DID. Shields have been explained in different ways, separate particle and ray shields, ECM, dispersal... For all you know, that A-wing's rear shields were down.

Really, showing ships blowing up in a battle doesn`t tell us much, but old canon sources are no longer viable in a debate, sorry. Wish it wasn`t true, it is, deal with it.

It`s regrettable, as i`d like to see something canon about B-wings tearing apart cap.... Oh wait.

Again, ATC crit - hull breach. But whatever, ignore the key (humerous and gave relevant) part of my post if you want. I don't actually care.

I did comment RE the interceptor if you look. All you are doing here is proving you don't actually read arguments. Here. I'll repaste it in bold for you.

And old Canon is not worth discussing. Yeah, we see x-wings etc get taken out all the time by onne-2 bursts. That doesn't mean anything. Spoiler: IT NEVER DID. Shields have been explained in different ways, separate particle and ray shields, ECM, dispersal... For all you know, that A-wing's rear shields were down.

Really, showing ships blowing up in a battle doesn`t tell us much, but old canon sources are no longer viable in a debate, sorry. Wish it wasn`t true, it is, deal with it.

It`s regrettable, as i`d like to see something canon about B-wings tearing apart cap.... Oh wait.

Without playing the Wall o'Text game:

BKL: "Did you also see the other comments made by the people working at lfl that shows "canon" means something diffrent to them than it does to the fanbase?"

No, citation, please?

Everything I have seen - literally, EVERYTHING - contradicts what you are saying. The official line is that they wiped out everything except the movies, TCW and a few other bits and pieces specifically mentioned and everything else is to be considered make-believe, like a story around a fireplace.

And if by "comments made" there are quotes like "if I had my way" or "I like to think that" then they are not valid.

This is a very binary point being made - there is canon and there are legends. This isn't about opinion or what we would like to see, it's only about what is.

And BKL - for what it's worth, you can believe whatever you like and its cool. If you use this stuff for the basis of an RPG or LARP or whatever, that's your business. If you want to consider the Christmas Special canon, have at it. Star Wars is meant to be enjoyed and you obviously are fanatical, don't feel the need to prove yourself right if the evidence isn't there, just enjoy being a Stat Wars nut - just like the rest of us

Ok but not great episode for me.

Good to see more of Hera rather than her being left behind while the others run around. I feel the superduperlaser of the Bladewing was a cheapshot driven more by rule of cool than anything else. Yeah I know Star Wars is very much about that but still. Needing to take a couple of passes or evade fire while unloading Ordinance to get the kill would have shown off Hera's piloting much better.

Very few canon sources about the B wing now as far as I can see. RotJ we see them but not really what they can do. The two part (so far) blade Squadron story on starwars.com is interesting but doesn't exactly tally with the Bladewing prototype we see in the episode of Rebels. In Blade Squadron they are out matched by Tie Interceptors in dogfighting as we would expect but their toughness and surprising short range turns keep them in the fight till a couple can unload Ion cannon and ordinance against the Devastator. In effect just two B wings take out a star destroyer but with surgical strikes against key components.

I much prefer this portrayal of the B wings combat effectiveness than Rebels BFG syndrome. Be interesting to see if the show or other sources demonstrate how the change comes about from prototype to production. Presumable the downsides are just too much in a production snub fighter for a force at relies on hit and run hyperspace tactics. They replace one ridiculous weapon system with a suite of lesser weapons that combine to get the same result I guess.

Saying the tie advanced one shots things just because its piloted by darth vader doesnt work, isnt valid unless your saying he customised his weapons, making them better than normal x1 weapons.

It's far easier to explain the lethality of Vader as supernatural accuracy than the Advanced having special lasers.

It's not like Luke had special torpedoes that could one-shot a Death Star. He was just more accurate with them.

Hey guess what, if someone wants to actully counter the presented evidence they have to counter every individual point presented.

Can we stop a moment to talk about the Phantom, a Droid slot, and a hyperdrive? I'm a fan of little ships that come out of bigger ships and go zoom zoom. I'm a fan of the Phantom. I'm not a fan of this change. I'll deal and all that, but I don't think this was the right way to treat this little guy.

I love the little guy but I have to be real, it's LITTLE. And it was already over powered as hell for its size with a main twin laser,a disk turret dorsal mount single laser. All packed into a very small spaceframe that to my minds eye doesn't have the room for that kind of power output or internal components. And now you throw in a hyperdrive, and a Droid socket? Does the Droid just hang his feet down in front of the door? I need a schematic to see this things space allotment. I know it has a ventral engineering bay and some room on the dorsal fuselage and empanage, but I just can't get there at the moment. I could do with some better walk around shots. I think they are falling to DS9's early problem.

Can we stop a moment to talk about the Phantom, a Droid slot, and a hyperdrive?

Personally, I was more concerned about the fact that making a ship hyperspace capable is apparently like installing an air conditioner.

I would have THOUGHT that whether a ship can travel through hyperspace or not would have to be part of the ship's basic design. As opposed to just spending a couple hours bolting on a hyperdrive.

Ok but not great episode for me.

Good to see more of Hera rather than her being left behind while the others run around. I feel the superduperlaser of the Bladewing was a cheapshot driven more by rule of cool than anything else. Yeah I know Star Wars is very much about that but still. Needing to take a couple of passes or evade fire while unloading Ordinance to get the kill would have shown off Hera's piloting much better.

Very few canon sources about the B wing now as far as I can see. RotJ we see them but not really what they can do. The two part (so far) blade Squadron story on starwars.com is interesting but doesn't exactly tally with the Bladewing prototype we see in the episode of Rebels. In Blade Squadron they are out matched by Tie Interceptors in dogfighting as we would expect but their toughness and surprising short range turns keep them in the fight till a couple can unload Ion cannon and ordinance against the Devastator. In effect just two B wings take out a star destroyer but with surgical strikes against key components.

I much prefer this portrayal of the B wings combat effectiveness than Rebels BFG syndrome. Be interesting to see if the show or other sources demonstrate how the change comes about from prototype to production. Presumable the downsides are just too much in a production snub fighter for a force at relies on hit and run hyperspace tactics. They replace one ridiculous weapon system with a suite of lesser weapons that combine to get the same result I guess.

Now hold on there, in the Bladewing's defense- it IS a prototype, and MUCH larger than an actual B-Wing.

Quarrie himself even said he'll have to make several changes to the prototype after being told The Rebellion wants several of them produced. As such, the superlaser won't be a thing, and the standard B-Wing will be much more in like with what we're used to. With a gunner and pilot seat on opposite ends of the ship, a superlaser, and INSANE maneuverability, The Bladewing Prototype is going to stay a one-of-a-kind vessel.

Absolutely I get that it's a prototype. Pretty sure I touched on that. I just don't see what the super gun did that couldn't have been achieved in a way that actually showcased Hera as a pilot. If new canon says 2 can take down a Star Destroyer then the prototype can easily deal with what that picket ship with conventional weaponry. Would then have been a powerful ship being skilfully flown rather than the win button it was in the episode. Just how it came across to me.

Still enjoying the show and it wasn't a bad episode, just not as good as I feel it could have been.

Well you're absolutely right- it should have done what it always has rather than have a one-shot-kill-cannon but eh.

At the time however, they did need the superlaser to punch through the blockade.

Can we stop a moment to talk about the Phantom, a Droid slot, and a hyperdrive?

Are we sure it's an actual droid slot? Cause it looks like he's just sitting on the hatch. And later shots of the Phantom in the battle don't show the droid in the socket.

Personally, I was more concerned about the fact that making a ship hyperspace capable is apparently like installing an air conditioner.

I would have THOUGHT that whether a ship can travel through hyperspace or not would have to be part of the ship's basic design. As opposed to just spending a couple hours bolting on a hyperdrive.

On the one hand, yeah, being able to treat a hyperdrive like a car stereo is stupid.

On the other hand, if you can strap a ship onto the exterior of another ship and go to hyperspace with no apparent negative effects on either the mothership or the parasite ship... does it need to be any more complicated?

It certainly makes Not-Thrawn's job of upgrading TIE Interceptors easier.

I still wonder where the hell The Phantom's power supply is.

^ my guess is they haven't thought about it

That was definitely par for the course in the old canon too though IMO. Rule of cool is very Star Wars.

and may it always be so...

Star Wars always was rule of cool first, logic later. And there are lotd of previous examples in old canon of ships being specifically designed to carry things through hyperspace. The Cargo Ferry and heavy lifter from TIE Fighter for example. Heck doing this was a game mechanic in XWA. Of course these aren't canon any more, until they appear somewhere else but... you never know. Oh, XG platforms are canon, they were in Rebels magazine!

It does feel a bit weird for the Phantom to be able to hyperspace, but we don't know what the drive rating is. It could be like a class 10 slow as hell hyperdrive for short jumps only.

I still wonder where the hell The Phantom's power supply is.

If it were a normal aircraft I'd say that the fuel/reactant was stored in the wings.

However, since the wings on the Phantom are rather thin for that sort of thing, I'd venture that the power/fuel/reactant is instead stored in the non-folding bit of the forward engine casing.

It's layout is a little similar to a snowspeeder isn't it?

^ my guess is they haven't thought about it

par for the new-canon course, sadly

Explaining the magic has been an integral part of the fun since 1837.

I'm trying to figure out why people are complaining that the Phantom is too small to have a hyperdrive, and yet don't blink an eye at the A-Wing having one...

^ Good question since the A-Wing is smaller then the Phantom. So is the N-1 for that matter.

I wonder sometimes if the primary problem with hyperdrives is whether or not the ship has enough power to run the core, not size.

The Empire has ideological and manufacturing reasons to not fit their fighters with hyperdrives, but it seems to be possible - we have various customised interceptors, for example (I know, I know, this is Legends stuff).

On the other hand, the Rebels practically have to have hyperdrives - their navy isn't really carrier-heavy and having to stick around and retrieve ships kills a helluva lot of tactical options vs. a numerically superior navy.

Anyway, we can be **** sure the A-Wing has power and to spare, so that suggests that space isn't necessarily a concern.

The Phantom , though, doesn't seem to have all that much power, so it doesn't feel right in that case.

I think it feels weird because the phantom having no hyperdrive was a plot point a few times before

^^ Seems to be in the same vein as the TIE fighter power problem: the magi-tech for the power sources just isn't delved into as often as the tech for weapons or plot devices. (Even Iron Man don't fly without no arc-reactor.)\

I looked through the (non-canon) cross sections for a suitably compact power source:

The Nubian N-1 seems to run on four thirty-litre power cells that tuck into the hull panels on either side of the pilot; as well as two hundred-litre tanks slung underneath.

http://img.phombo.com/img1/photocombo/72/Ep1-013.jpg

Something similar for the Phantom perhaps?

Has anyone ever thought that the Empire might not put hyperdrive systems into their TIEs because it may make it too easy for pilots to go AWOL? I know it makes perfect sense from a mass production/cost saving perspective, but this almost makes sense too. Just a thought.

As for Rebels and the Phantom, now that the Ghost crew is part of a larger rebel cell, perhaps they asked for the hyperdrive for the Phantom. Again, just a thought.

Has anyone ever thought that the Empire might not put hyperdrive systems into their TIEs because it may make it too easy for pilots to go AWOL? I know it makes perfect sense from a mass production/cost saving perspective, but this almost makes sense too. Just a thought.

Already got that, note "ideological and manufacturing reasons".

^^ Seems to be in the same vein as the TIE fighter power problem: the magi-tech for the power sources just isn't delved into as often as the tech for weapons or plot devices. (Even Iron Man don't fly without no arc-reactor.)\

I looked through the (non-canon) cross sections for a suitably compact power source:

The Nubian N-1 seems to run on four thirty-litre power cells that tuck into the hull panels on either side of the pilot; as well as two hundred-litre tanks slung underneath.

http://img.phombo.com/img1/photocombo/72/Ep1-013.jpg

Something similar for the Phantom perhaps?

First thing I notice there is that the hyperdrive is marked, and it's not much bigger than the cockpit tub.

Are power cells more at batteries or reactors? Ships seem to only be able to enter hyperspace above certain speeds, which are arbitrary per-craft. Is this because hyperdrives require internal capacitors to build up a charge, and this charge is provided by engine-run generators?

Can we stop a moment to talk about the Phantom, a Droid slot, and a hyperdrive?

Are we sure it's an actual droid slot? Cause it looks like he's just sitting on the hatch. And later shots of the Phantom in the battle don't show the droid in the socket.

Sure looks like one to me. At 16:20 BG wasn't just sitting on the hatch. It looked to me that he had about a quarter of his body in the hole. At 19:30-19:35 of the episode you get a real good look at the "droid slot" when the Phantom rolls and shows the top of the craft to the camera. It looks like to me that it's the right size to fit an astromech.