Well they exist until contradicted, really because of their lore background its something you would have to try hard to purposely make non-canon. If you don't like Inquestorum Dark Troopers might I suggest then Shadow Guard from SWTFU? They were made Primary canon.

There is no "primary canon." There is Canon, and there is Legends. The multi-level canon scheme got thrown out a long time ago. Currently, the canon is the six movies, TCW, Rebels, and anything published after and including A New Dawn . I've a feeling Rogue One will remove Dark Forces (and, thus, its sequels) from the possibility of canonization. So, Dark Troopers aren't even a thing anymore.

You're coming at it backwards. You're thinking that things are canon until proven wrong. That's not the case. Everything is Legends until made canon. The Force Unleashed is no longer canon. If Galen Marek ever shows up in a movie or TV show or book or comic book, then (and only then) will he (and only he) be made canon. There's no Juno Eclipse, no Rahm Kota, no Maris Brood, Shaak Ti didn't die on Felucia, Starkiller wasn't cloned, and so on.

That material is still there if you want to use it for your RPGs or something (I will continue to use The Old Republic stuff in my games, for instance), but as far as the canon stands, it never happened. After all, legends are rarely true.

@ BKL Where was it confirmed in the new canon that Ackbar was involved in designing the B-Wing? I know the canon Wookieepedia page says he did, or said he did but I've never been able to figure out which canon source states that.

On Wookieepedia I have no idea. You'll have to start a topic there asking them on the Ackbar talk page. Someone should maybe help. I think they referenced the Ultimate SW source book, but I have seen where they have used that book incorrectly as a source in the past. They list is as having a TIE Defender reference in it, but the book doesn't mention them.

I started one on the B-Wing/canon talk page a while back and finally got a reply. The person checked the Ultimate SW book and there's nothing in any of the sections discussing Ackbar or the B-Wing claiming Ackbar was involved in the design.so it was changed. Too bad I still don't see why the writer's decided Quarrie needed to design one of the few Star Wars ship models whose designers were discussed in Legends rather then have him design one of the far larger group of ship models that Legends gives no clues to their designer and I still think Quarie is one of the worst possible names for a Mon Calamari character.

I gotta' say that episode was pretty thrown together.

Yeah... all of the sources cited are no longer canon, and disproved by nu-canon so.... Whole text wall of garbage basically. Heck, the TIE Fighter game guide is C canon, not even book canon before the recanonification.

@ BKL Where was it confirmed in the new canon that Ackbar was involved in designing the B-Wing? I know the canon Wookieepedia page says he did, or said he did but I've never been able to figure out which canon source states that.

On Wookieepedia I have no idea. You'll have to start a topic there asking them on the Ackbar talk page. Someone should maybe help. I think they referenced the Ultimate SW source book, but I have seen where they have used that book incorrectly as a source in the past. They list is as having a TIE Defender reference in it, but the book doesn't mention them.

I started one on the B-Wing/canon talk page a while back and finally got a reply. The person checked the Ultimate SW book and there's nothing in any of the sections discussing Ackbar or the B-Wing claiming Ackbar was involved in the design.so it was changed. Too bad I still don't see why the writer's decided Quarrie needed to design one of the few Star Wars ship models whose designers were discussed in Legends rather then have him design one of the far larger group of ship models that Legends gives no clues to their designer and I still think Quarie is one of the worst possible names for a Mon Calamari character.

It's a an homage to McQuarrie (Mon Calamari Quarrie, get it?) and a pun in a min cal is named a very similar name to the Quarren, the squid faced dudes who share their home world of Dac. Maybe, in universe, it was a derisive name that he earned because he was so cantankerous and antisocial, meaning it's a racist perjorative. Or he was called that by his loving parents because they sympathized with the plight of their disenfranchised neighbors and named their son in honor of them.

Or whatever.

The guy strikes me as someone who would be very irritating to hang around with under normal circumstances.

And heprobably got beat up a lot in school too.

(That was a fish joke)

Just marathoned episodes 5, 6, and 7 together.

Five: The Inquisitrix character was fun; I like her design a bit more than Brother Five. (Though I think they were going for a tricorn with his headgear, it looks like a plate.)

Six: "Peace out bros; I didn't want to be a Jedi anyway." premise seems abrupt, though it was nice to see Hondo again. I'm little bummed that Bridger is out of his "deal with the devil" so easy, though it would have been hard to pull it out again with Lothal out of the picture.

Seven: McQuarrie gets a mustachioed Mon-Calamari! Yay!

The B-wing is introduced. Cool.

That death ray. ..........

<---------------------- Give Hera two episodes in that thing.

You can kill corvettes with a fighter?!

How does the Empire even stand a chance now?!

Probably not as effective against a Star Destroyer. Also, there is probably a reason it isn't on the production ship.

Gotta say, I'm enjoying this show more each week. The prototype episode was great, "super weapon" notwithstanding

I'd have honestly preferred to see the B-Wing use its Ion Cannons, Blaster Cannons, and Proton Torpedoes to take it out rather than some gimmicky Superlaser.

Seriously guys, I think that superweapon WAS the Ion Cannons. You can see when it takes out that cruiser that there's lightning coursing all around the ship afterwards.

Despite being around in the EU for forever, I don't think Ion cannons have shown up in a single canon source outside of Hoth and the Malevolence. And this thing on the B-Wing is kinda like a scaled down version of the Malevolence's weapon.

When BG installed the hyperdrive on the Phantom, did he/she put in an astromech slot along with it?

Looks like the droid was in the 'well' when working up top the shuttle and later in the episode when Zeb tilts the ship you can see a good shot of the hyperdrive addition including a circular hole perfect size for an astromech.

We haven't seen all the upgrade slots on the Attack Shuttle and now I wonder if does have a spot for an astromech. ...although the expansion seems to be lacking any cards for one.

Seriously guys, I think that superweapon WAS the Ion Cannons. You can see when it takes out that cruiser that there's lightning coursing all around the ship afterwards.Despite being around in the EU for forever, I don't think Ion cannons have shown up in a single canon source outside of Hoth and the Malevolence. And this thing on the B-Wing is kinda like a scaled down version of the Malevolence's weapon.

I think they refer to it as the multi laser cannon system. Ion cannons don't affect the side cliffs/rocks like that. When the bwing took down the cruiser,it cut a giant hole through it destroying the reactor core and other crap that made all the lightning effects. ... imo

Ion cannons don't affect the side cliffs/rocks like that.

And given that that's basically what happened to the Phantom on it's way into the planet, it makes me thing that maybe Quarie was inspired by the planets atmosphere to create the weapon.

Wow that's a lot of non-canon legends stuff that is contradicted by the actual films. As said before most starfighters blow up in one or two volleys of laser fire, or are at least fatally damaged and end up spiraling out of control.

Of course the films also show missiles and torpedoes only being fired on capital ships with buzz droid missiles being the only starfighter-targeting exception, yet there's many games that allow missiles and torps to splash starfighters.

But I'm glad someone takes all that seriously...I guess.

And how is every source contradicted by the films? You have to go through every one of them, not just lump it all together and be vague. We missiles are used in dogfights though, we see this in new materiel and old.

Yeah fighters can take out other fighters in one or two volleys which can be 2-4 hits. On screen we see the Interceptor take out a A-Wing with just one beam. In the story I posted at the top of my references we see a Interceptor take out a B-Wing with just one beam, or required a couple hits, but this is a B-Wing we are talking about. They have they same shield strength at the Rebel Frigates. And that is taken from Guide to Warefare.

Even if you don't like that source its excepted that the B-Wing is better shielded and is more durable compared to the Y-Wing. The Interceptor obliterated it fast. Also you remark on how well the TIE Advanced X1 destroyed the Rebel Fighters and escort cap ships, well those cannons it had are the smaller versions of the guns used on the Interceptor.

You can't just dismiss his argument as faulty because you're not going to read the citations.

Sure I can. Everytime I try and debate with him, a bunch of people tell me what a waste of time it is. And my limited experience with him bears that out.

I can ASSUME it's wrong, because it's him that's saying it. And any citations he has will be cherry picked from contradictory EU sources. So I don't have to waste my time with it.

Price of squandering his reputation I suppose.

My sources are not cherry picked. Start showing these many many references you have that Interceptors with Four 9.3s have weak weapons or standard weapons like every other fighter.

There is no "primary canon." There is Canon, and there is Legends. The multi-level canon scheme got thrown out a long time ago. Currently, the canon is the six movies, TCW, Rebels, and anything published after and including A New Dawn . I've a feeling Rogue One will remove Dark Forces (and, thus, its sequels) from the possibility of canonization. So, Dark Troopers aren't even a thing anymore.

You're coming at it backwards. You're thinking that things are canon until proven wrong. That's not the case. Everything is Legends until made canon. The Force Unleashed is no longer canon. If Galen Marek ever shows up in a movie or TV show or book or comic book, then (and only then) will he (and only he) be made canon. There's no Juno Eclipse, no Rahm Kota, no Maris Brood, Shaak Ti didn't die on Felucia, Starkiller wasn't cloned, and so on.

That material is still there if you want to use it for your RPGs or something (I will continue to use The Old Republic stuff in my games, for instance), but as far as the canon stands, it never happened. After all, legends are rarely true.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-extended-universe-explained/

That is just ONE reference

"Del Rey publisher’s Editor at Large Shelly Shapiro

“Well first of all, we don’t want to just disappear stuff that everybody read and loved – including myself. Legends are things that are often told over generations so they’re not… they change constantly with the telling, so you can’t actually attribute an author to any particular one. Often it wasn’t someone who was actually there. You can go back to any of the legends… they’re pretty sure there was a ‘King Arthur,’ but most of the stories probably did not happen. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t kernels of truth in it.

This is why Legends really is secondary canon. Canon has a different meaning to the people running LFL than it does the fan base. You'll see other comments in the topic that basically say the same thing I just posted above.

Also since we are talking about tech here, theres really know reason to throw around the non-canon card when they keep using material from the old tech books, which were never called legends, including the calculations from complete vehicles, they are in Ultimate Star Wars.

@ BKL Where was it confirmed in the new canon that Ackbar was involved in designing the B-Wing? I know the canon Wookieepedia page says he did, or said he did but I've never been able to figure out which canon source states that.

On Wookieepedia I have no idea. You'll have to start a topic there asking them on the Ackbar talk page. Someone should maybe help. I think they referenced the Ultimate SW source book, but I have seen where they have used that book incorrectly as a source in the past. They list is as having a TIE Defender reference in it, but the book doesn't mention them.

I started one on the B-Wing/canon talk page a while back and finally got a reply. The person checked the Ultimate SW book and there's nothing in any of the sections discussing Ackbar or the B-Wing claiming Ackbar was involved in the design.so it was changed. Too bad I still don't see why the writer's decided Quarrie needed to design one of the few Star Wars ship models whose designers were discussed in Legends rather then have him design one of the far larger group of ship models that Legends gives no clues to their designer and I still think Quarie is one of the worst possible names for a Mon Calamari character.

Well that figures. I can tell you Ultimate Star Warsdoes have the company associated with the Verpine in older material, as being produced by them.

Yeah... all of the sources cited are no longer canon, and disproved by nu-canon so.... Whole text wall of garbage basically. Heck, the TIE Fighter game guide is C canon, not even book canon before the recanonification.

I tell you the same thing I wrote Darth, you have to be more specific and go through every quote and explain why they contradict new material. How is the destructive power of the 9.3 disproved in new material? I used new material with the Interceptor in it. Their haven't even really been that many new things to come out, and most of them don't even have TIE Interceptor.

I will point out in Guide to Warefare B-Wings are mentioned having Turbo Lasers, probably not all of them since they have their weapons swapped out for specific jobs. Said Turbo Laser could be a composite Turbo Laser.

I tell you the same thing I wrote Darth, you have to be more specific and go through every quote and explain why they contradict new material.

"A kernel of truth," means that the Greeks found dwarf elephant skulls, it doesn't mean that there was once a one-eyed, twelve-foot tall, man-eating dude named Polyphemus.

When BG installed the hyperdrive on the Phantom, did he/she put in an astromech slot along with it?

Looks like the droid was in the 'well' when working up top the shuttle and later in the episode when Zeb tilts the ship you can see a good shot of the hyperdrive addition including a circular hole perfect size for an astromech.

We haven't seen all the upgrade slots on the Attack Shuttle and now I wonder if does have a spot for an astromech. ...although the expansion seems to be lacking any cards for one.

Good catch. The Phantom did not have an astromech slot on Rebels. This is part of a subtle redesign of the Phantom this season. Here is a link to the trivia slide that confirms this. It is unlikely that FFG was working with this new "asset" when they were designing the game version of the Phantom.

http://www.starwars.com/wings-of-the-master-trivia-gallery-2

I don't really want to get dragged into this but there is ONLY canon, they explicitly said everything else was "legends".

It may feel good but saying "as it was in EU and hasn't been re-explained since, that means EU has merit" is fallacious thinking. As someone else said, "the stuff of legends" is rarely accurate so you can't default to that as a valid answer, except into the mirror.

The "owners" of the lore set the rules, not the fans. If it's not in Disney Canon, it's not real (within, of course, the context of it being complete fantasy).

Guys, if you are going to continue to argue with BKL, you need to know one very important fact. To him, "canon" = "licensed". Which isn't even close to the truth, but he doesn't understand the concept of trademarks. It is a futile effort.

So, I will continue to enjoy the white bars.

But, back to the show, looking forward to Ketsu Ohnyo and some Sabine backstory.

I was wondering that... there are a few players who say in X-Wing Capital ships are too week but.............

Darth Vader took out a command ships single handedly. H was flying a TIE Advanced and apparently the fire power of that one craft is enough to take down a CR-? Of course he is a Sith Lord and maybe rolled all criticals.

Now the prototype Blade Wing can take down a Capital ships with a single shot.

Maybe Capital ships in X-Wing are over powered compared to the Star Wars universe.

But if a fighter can take down a capital ship with a single shot then should any ship, small, large or huge be able to withstand fire power of a B-Wing's magnitude?

Keep in mind that CR-90s and those Imperial cruisers aren't really "capital ships". They're completely dwarfed by something like Home One or an ISD.

I know in real life that the "capital ship" definition has changed over the years. With the early sailing ships having British ratings all the way down to Corvette that was considered a capital ship. Today perhaps not. I'm not sure how the Star Wars universe rates their ships. You could say that the Super Star Destroyer dwarfs a Star Destroyer so by that definition the Star Destroyers are not capital ships either.

But honestly I wasn't trying to define capital ships. I was commenting on a fighter being able to take out a Star Wars: X-Wing style 'Huge' ship or even larger in a single shot. I thought that was odd. That's all.

I was wondering that... there are a few players who say in X-Wing Capital ships are too week but.............

Darth Vader took out a command ships single handedly. H was flying a TIE Advanced and apparently the fire power of that one craft is enough to take down a CR-? Of course he is a Sith Lord and maybe rolled all criticals.

Now the prototype Blade Wing can take down a Capital ships with a single shot.

Maybe Capital ships in X-Wing are over powered compared to the Star Wars universe.

But if a fighter can take down a capital ship with a single shot then should any ship, small, large or huge be able to withstand fire power of a B-Wing's magnitude?

Keep in mind that CR-90s and those Imperial cruisers aren't really "capital ships". They're completely dwarfed by something like Home One or an ISD.

I know in real life that the "capital ship" definition has changed over the years. With the early sailing ships having British ratings all the way down to Corvette that was considered a capital ship. Today perhaps not. I'm not sure how the Star Wars universe rates their ships. You could say that the Super Star Destroyer dwarfs a Star Destroyer so by that definition the Star Destroyers are not capital ships either.

But honestly I wasn't trying to define capital ships. I was commenting on a fighter being able to take out a Star Wars: X-Wing style 'Huge' ship or even larger in a single shot. I thought that was odd. That's all.

It was two shots. Like that makes a difference, right?

The ratio of 'capital ships' in the OT went like this:

Tantive IV<ISD<Executor<Death Star

Roughly 10 times the length between sizes. This is illustrated in the wonderful series of Lego Ultimate Collectors sets that actually include a small model of the next lowest size in the set, with a tiny Corellian corvette included in the ISD set, and a tiny ISD with the Executor, ect. With a difference in 3 orders of magnitude (at least) within the range of capital ships, we can't really use capital status as signifying anything other than 'larger than the Falcon or Hounds tooth'.

I'm not sure how the Star Wars universe rates their ships.

Way I see it, if it has a bridge crew on a bridge instead of a pilot in a cockpit, it's a capital ship.

I was wondering that... there are a few players who say in X-Wing Capital ships are too week but.............

Darth Vader took out a command ships single handedly. H was flying a TIE Advanced and apparently the fire power of that one craft is enough to take down a CR-? Of course he is a Sith Lord and maybe rolled all criticals.

Now the prototype Blade Wing can take down a Capital ships with a single shot.

Maybe Capital ships in X-Wing are over powered compared to the Star Wars universe.

But if a fighter can take down a capital ship with a single shot then should any ship, small, large or huge be able to withstand fire power of a B-Wing's magnitude?

Keep in mind that CR-90s and those Imperial cruisers aren't really "capital ships". They're completely dwarfed by something like Home One or an ISD.

I know in real life that the "capital ship" definition has changed over the years. With the early sailing ships having British ratings all the way down to Corvette that was considered a capital ship. Today perhaps not. I'm not sure how the Star Wars universe rates their ships. You could say that the Super Star Destroyer dwarfs a Star Destroyer so by that definition the Star Destroyers are not capital ships either.

But honestly I wasn't trying to define capital ships. I was commenting on a fighter being able to take out a Star Wars: X-Wing style 'Huge' ship or even larger in a single shot. I thought that was odd. That's all.

The last system in use in Legends is everything 100 meters or longer is a capital ship.

Ships 100 to 200 meters long are Corvettes, those 200 to 400 meters long are Frigates, vessels 400 to 600 meters in length were Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers were 600 to 1000 meters in length, ships between 1000 and 2000 meters in length were Star Destroyers while 2000 to 500 meters in length were Battlecruisers and anything over 5000 meter long was a Dreadnought.

There were a lot of exceptions to the rules though. There were Corvette size classes named as Cruiser or Frigate classes, Frigate size classes named as Corvette, Battlecruiser or Cruiser classes, Heavy Cruiser size classes named as Frigate, Star Destroyer, or Cruiser classes, Star Destroyer size classes named as Cruiser or Heavy Cruiser classes, the MC80s being a prime example, and Battlecruiser sized classes named as Star Destroyer or Dreadnought classes.

There were also a number of subcapital designs named as <insert name here> class Cruisers or Frigates

If i were to go through each point i'd be here all day, and not playing halo. Love you guys but that's a sacrifice that isn't being made. I'll address the last none though: Star wars Ranks and ship sizes/names are all over the place.

Star Destroyers are battlecruisers

Corvettes are sometimes frigates.

Cruisers are sometimes corvettes.

In certain bars, women are sometimes men.

Under that armour, men are sometimes women.

And old Canon is not worth discussing. Yeah, we see x-wings etc get taken out all the time by onne-2 bursts. That doesn't mean anything. Spoiler: IT NEVER DID. Shields have been explained in different ways, seperate particle and ray shields, ECM, dispersal... For all you know, that A-wing's rear shields were down.

I'd love some old canon to be true and followed - notably elite stormtroopers and TIE Pilots. We can't always get what we want. All we can hope for are a few gems from an unforgotten era (Thrawn, DX-9s, Gunboats etc).

Also: OF COURSE DARTH VADER ONE SHOTS Y-WINGS! He's MFING DARTH VADER He gets the ATC CRIT which either direct hits, hull breaches or explosions.