Yeah but the company associated with the Verpine are credited as building/designing the B-Wings as is Ackbar.

Not anymore! I always thought it was dumb to have Ackbar as the designer of the B-wing. Like they couldn't come up with another Mon Cal? He's a genius military tactician and engineer? That was the main problem with the EU. Too many characters were involved and did too many things.

<Sarcasm> Right because skilled engineers and ship designers can't possibly be good military commanders. </sarcasm>

Tarkin is a ship designer in both canon and Legends so I fail to see why people think Ackbar can't be both in both settings.

IRL when West Point started the top students of each class were sent to the engineering corp.

Also I don't know if this still stands but in the Cold War through the mid 90s US navy nuclear submarine officers took a test to see if they were qualified as chief engineers during or just after their first tour with failure meaning they had to transfer to another branch of the service.

If you really want me to I can go digging and give you the names of some successful Admirals involved in ship design from history.

You know what though? I never felt the X-wing designed for the empire felt right.

Aesthetic, style and purpose of the ship all really wrong compared to Imperial styles.

Unless the X-wing was the F22 to the XG-1's F23, and they actively competed for the same "hyperspace raider and patrol" slot.

Also: New cannon: Really, REALLY heavy laser cannon (B-wing only).

X-wings could fit. If we saw more Imperial Z-95s and ARC-170s.

No verpine appears in this chapter, but basically they just recruited the original moncalamarian designer, that seems ready to re-desing the prototype into the production model we know.

That rebel cell seems quite fond of using corelian corvettes, so I wouldn't be surprised that the corvette named Shantipole that gave name to the research project is one of those.

That leaves it open for the designer to use the verpine from Roche to manufacture the Blade-Wings. They don't seem to be rewriting the canon that much.

The only difference is that the mon calamari designer isn't Ackbar. But he couldn't be anyway in this timeline, because Ackbar joined the Alliance much later, when he was rescued from being a servant of Tarkin.

Yeah like I mentioned in the EOE board topic I was disapointed that Ackbar lost his designer slot. Also am I the only one who sees a Mon Calamari named Quarrie and wonders why his parents named him after a likely anti-Quarren racial slur?

I know why the name was picked IRL but why a Mon Calamari character? If they want to honor McQuarrie why not just bring in the rebel character he played in his ESB cameo?

Maybe his name is a nickname that he earned from killing a bunch of Quarren.

A Mon Calamari was probably selected as an homage to Legends. It might also be to fit the B-Wing firmly in the design aesthetic of Mon Calamari ships.

This is a fighter. Not a capital ship. Just saying.

That was freaking awesome. I can just see the FFG designers faces when that thing fired its super weapon going 'you want me to do what with an upgrade!? FuuuuuWHAAA....' 0_o

Very exciting time to be a star fighter fan. It's the number one reason I'm a fan of Star Wars. So many things, such possibility, much future, very interest, waow.

Also it looks like we can put down for the next Imperial huge ship that will be made, and probably the first Scum one that has the Gozanti body with four engines, a new Scum large ship from the Hondo episode which appears in two unrelated scenes there, maybe an Imperial small but not likely with that mini TIE/taxi from a bit ago. Very cool stuff indeed.

You know what though? I never felt the X-wing designed for the empire felt right.

Aesthetic, style and purpose of the ship all really wrong compared to Imperial styles.

Unless the X-wing was the F22 to the XG-1's F23, and they actively competed for the same "hyperspace raider and patrol" slot.

Also: New cannon: Really, REALLY heavy laser cannon (B-wing only).

X-wings could fit. If we saw more Imperial Z-95s and ARC-170s.

No verpine appears in this chapter, but basically they just recruited the original moncalamarian designer, that seems ready to re-desing the prototype into the production model we know.

That rebel cell seems quite fond of using corelian corvettes, so I wouldn't be surprised that the corvette named Shantipole that gave name to the research project is one of those.

That leaves it open for the designer to use the verpine from Roche to manufacture the Blade-Wings. They don't seem to be rewriting the canon that much.

The only difference is that the mon calamari designer isn't Ackbar. But he couldn't be anyway in this timeline, because Ackbar joined the Alliance much later, when he was rescued from being a servant of Tarkin.

Yeah like I mentioned in the EOE board topic I was disapointed that Ackbar lost his designer slot. Also am I the only one who sees a Mon Calamari named Quarrie and wonders why his parents named him after a likely anti-Quarren racial slur?

I know why the name was picked IRL but why a Mon Calamari character? If they want to honor McQuarrie why not just bring in the rebel character he played in his ESB cameo?

Maybe his name is a nickname that he earned from killing a bunch of Quarren.

A Mon Calamari was probably selected as an homage to Legends. It might also be to fit the B-Wing firmly in the design aesthetic of Mon Calamari ships.

Yeah but the company associated with the Verpine are credited as building/designing the B-Wings as is Ackbar.

Not anymore! I always thought it was dumb to have Ackbar as the designer of the B-wing. Like they couldn't come up with another Mon Cal? He's a genius military tactician and engineer? That was the main problem with the EU. Too many characters were involved and did too many things.

<Sarcasm> Right because skilled engineers and ship designers can't possibly be good military commanders. </sarcasm>

Tarkin is a ship designer in both canon and Legends so I fail to see why people think Ackbar can't be both in both settings.

IRL when West Point started the top students of each class were sent to the engineering corp.

Also I don't know if this still stands but in the Cold War through the mid 90s US navy nuclear submarine officers took a test to see if they were qualified as chief engineers during or just after their first tour with failure meaning they had to transfer to another branch of the service.

If you really want me to I can go digging and give you the names of some successful Admirals involved in ship design from history.

This is a fighter. Not a capital ship. Just saying.

True but in Star Wars the difference between a fighter and a capital ship is much smaller then in RL It is basically a matter of sale since Star Wars starfighters and Star Wars capital ships are designed for the same environment. IRL fighters are designed for one environment, capital ships for a second, and submarines for a third. It wouldn't shock me if I could find an admiral involved in aircraft design but it would be harder and I might be wrong about being able to find one admittedly.

You know what though? I never felt the X-wing designed for the empire felt right.

Aesthetic, style and purpose of the ship all really wrong compared to Imperial styles.

Unless the X-wing was the F22 to the XG-1's F23, and they actively competed for the same "hyperspace raider and patrol" slot.

Also: New cannon: Really, REALLY heavy laser cannon (B-wing only).

X-wings could fit. If we saw more Imperial Z-95s and ARC-170s.

No verpine appears in this chapter, but basically they just recruited the original moncalamarian designer, that seems ready to re-desing the prototype into the production model we know.

That rebel cell seems quite fond of using corelian corvettes, so I wouldn't be surprised that the corvette named Shantipole that gave name to the research project is one of those.

That leaves it open for the designer to use the verpine from Roche to manufacture the Blade-Wings. They don't seem to be rewriting the canon that much.

The only difference is that the mon calamari designer isn't Ackbar. But he couldn't be anyway in this timeline, because Ackbar joined the Alliance much later, when he was rescued from being a servant of Tarkin.

Yeah like I mentioned in the EOE board topic I was disapointed that Ackbar lost his designer slot. Also am I the only one who sees a Mon Calamari named Quarrie and wonders why his parents named him after a likely anti-Quarren racial slur?

I know why the name was picked IRL but why a Mon Calamari character? If they want to honor McQuarrie why not just bring in the rebel character he played in his ESB cameo?

Maybe his name is a nickname that he earned from killing a bunch of Quarren.

A Mon Calamari was probably selected as an homage to Legends. It might also be to fit the B-Wing firmly in the design aesthetic of Mon Calamari ships.

Yeah but the company associated with the Verpine are credited as building/designing the B-Wings as is Ackbar.

Not anymore! I always thought it was dumb to have Ackbar as the designer of the B-wing. Like they couldn't come up with another Mon Cal? He's a genius military tactician and engineer? That was the main problem with the EU. Too many characters were involved and did too many things.

<Sarcasm> Right because skilled engineers and ship designers can't possibly be good military commanders. </sarcasm>

Tarkin is a ship designer in both canon and Legends so I fail to see why people think Ackbar can't be both in both settings.

IRL when West Point started the top students of each class were sent to the engineering corp.

Also I don't know if this still stands but in the Cold War through the mid 90s US navy nuclear submarine officers took a test to see if they were qualified as chief engineers during or just after their first tour with failure meaning they had to transfer to another branch of the service.

If you really want me to I can go digging and give you the names of some successful Admirals involved in ship design from history.

This is a fighter. Not a capital ship. Just saying.

True but in Star Wars the difference between a fighter and a capital ship is much smaller then in RL It is basically a matter of sale since Star Wars starfighters and Star Wars capital ships are designed for the same environment. IRL fighters are designed for one environment, capital ships for a second, and submarines for a third. It wouldn't shock me if I could find an admiral involved in aircraft design but it would be harder and I might be wrong about being able to find one admittedly.

You probably could. Most American Admirals who command aircraft carriers got their start in the Navy flying fighters. Having said that, much of aircraft design is based on aerodynamics and pilots are primarily brought in to advise on controllability, handling characteristics, the ergonomics of the cockpit and controls, &c.

It also helps with the whole military-congressional-industrial complex often involves Colonels and General officers (or Captains and Admirals, in the case of the Navy) getting cushy advisory jobs working for the companies whose products they hawk.

I guess I'll ask the reverse question: What ships did Admirals Halsey and Nimitz design? Two of America's most accomplished Admirals and they fought during the last war where the US actually had to fight a competent enemy blue water navy. Are there other accomplished wartime Admirals engaged in actively engineering a warship - outside of asking an engineer to resolve a particular problem with a given design?

ETA: American astronauts during the Apollo and Gemini programs were incredible persons: Combat veteran fighter pilots with Ph.D s. I don't think they could design a space ship. Similarly, while nuclear submarine officers are required to also be nuclear engineers, that doesn't mean that they can design a new nuclear-powered submarine. It means that they can keep the submarine functional for a longer period of time in the event of a failure of the nuclear reactor than if they didn't possess degrees in nuclear engineering. They could probably design a rudimentary nuclear reactor and might even be able to mostly assemble one - but the task of designing such a large, complex machine as a submarine or an aircraft carrier or a space ship or a starfighter falls pretty definitely outside of the competency of any one, lone individual.

I could see someone like Admiral Ackbar devising the RfP that resulted in the construction of the B-Wing and that he might be the project's guardian angel among rebel military and political leaders, shepherding it from concept to construction, defending it as a strategic use of resources and its tactical capabilities in combat and may even have volunteered as a test pilot for the program - but I don't see Admiral Ackbar having taken a more direct role in developing the ship. Not in New Canon, anyway.

I love that they kept the name of the B-Wing development project as Project Shantipole. What a nice bow to the veteran X-Wing PC game.

Not just the PC game, but the West End Games RPG long before that.

...for those of us who watching 'Rebels' every week marvel at how much like the old WEG RPG the show feels like...this was just icing on the cake.

THIS! SO MUCH THIS!

I wasted so many hours pouring over that book (and the Death Star Technical Readout)

PS, could you all stop the quote walls? Just put @username so we know who your talking to our about. It's past ridiculous. Thanks.

PS, could you all stop the quote walls? Just put @username so we know who your talking to our about. It's past ridiculous. Thanks.

YOU WILL BOW BEFORE OUR QUOTE ZIGGURATS!

PS, could you all stop the quote walls? Just put @username so we know who your talking to our about. It's past ridiculous. Thanks.

PS, could you all stop the quote walls? Just put @username so we know who your talking to our about. It's past ridiculous. Thanks.

YOU WILL BOW BEFORE OUR QUOTE ZIGGURATS!

ALL HAIL THE QUOTE ANUNNAKI!

These guys are expected to fight more than just Jedi, their are lots and lots of other Force User groups out there. Wardens of the Sky would shatter these Inquisitors, that's not a bad thing going by the lore it just gives another reason to show off the Inquisitorium Dark Troopers.

There are no Wardens of the Sky or Dark Troopers that we know of yet. As far as canon is concerned, Jedi and Sith are the only Force users around now, especially since the Nightsisters were wiped out completely. That is until we find out that there are more of them. If we ever find that out. The Fallanassi, the Jensaarai ... even, sadly, the Zeison Sha. None of these exist that we know of as of now.

In fact, it looks like the Force has been a non-factor in the galaxy since Endor, and that it will "awaken" in Episode 7. The only Force users we know about post-Endor are Luke, who has some minimal Jedi training, and Leia, who seems to have none, but gets "feelings" regarding her role in the universe. it does seem like the Knights of Ren have some Force ability, but that might just be Kylo himself--it seemed that he was the only one with a saber in the trailer.

at least, edit out the parts of the post that you aren't even responding to by other people 5 posts prior.

More this. Having the quotes is vitally important to making a week long conversation intelligible, but they HAVE to be edited so that only the quoted bits that are relevant to what you are saying are in your post.

In most sources describing Legends ship design projects the stated designers, including Ackbar for the B-Wing in Legends, are the head of a team designing a ship or fighter not creating the entire design themselves.

Also in Legends Ackbar was not commanding the Rebel fleet when Project Shantipole took place. He became Commander of the Alliance Navy after his homeworld formally joined the Alliance around 9 months ABY. The B-Wing was in full production and active service no later then 6 months ABY. We don't have an exact date for it entering service but we know that the general who ordered Raid on Fara's Belt, AKA the first B-Wing mission to turn into an utter disaster in the Legends timeline, was captured by the Empire around 6 months ABY and not rescued until after Thrawn's campaign.

I don't now of any admirals who designed ships while commanding an active fleet in the field during war though I won't say it is impossible. If you want some war time admirals who designed ships before or after their wartime service I'll dig some up.

In most sources describing Legends ship design projects the stated designers, including Ackbar for the B-Wing in Legends, are the head of a team designing a ship or fighter not creating the entire design themselves.

Also in Legends Ackbar was not commanding the Rebel fleet when Project Shantipole took place. He became Commander of the Alliance Navy after his homeworld formally joined the Alliance around 9 months ABY. The B-Wing was in full production and active service no later then 6 months ABY. We don't have an exact date for it entering service but we know that the general who ordered Raid on Fara's Belt, AKA the first B-Wing mission to turn into an utter disaster in the Legends timeline, was captured by the Empire around 6 months ABY and not rescued until after Thrawn's campaign.

I don't now of any admirals who designed ships while commanding an active fleet in the field during war though I won't say it is impossible. If you want some war time admirals who designed ships before or after their wartime service I'll dig some up.

One presumes that an admiral in wartime does not have the time to design warships.

But an admiral who led troops in combat and later designed a warship or multiple warships would be neat to know, if nothing else.

I'm certain there are a few in the Royal Navy's history and probably some in the US Navy's history and likely more elsewhere but sorting through my various Naval history books to find the right ones will take some time. I probably won't start the serious going through every admiral in the books research until morning though I might look up a new likely combat admiral/ship designers tonight.

Edit: Ok I know Stepan Makarov designed ships and commanded a fleet in battle though it wasn't exactly a successful command. His flagship hit a mine while returning to port after a battle and he went down with the ship. He did have success as a ship captain in combat though including commanding one of, if not the first recorded successful attack with a self propelled torpedo.

I know George Elliot served as a captain in combat during the Napoleonic Wars successfully and designed a frigate but he only became an admiral in peacetime and while he had a command in the Opium Wars I don't think he actually took the field during the war.

I'm sure there are more examples but I'm too tired to look now,

What do you think, people? Will FFG bring the Blade-Wing prototype to X-Wing, just like what the did with the TIE Advanced Prototype?

It is certainly not the same ship than the B-Wing we have here.

This one has a permanent crew pod where the cannons pod is in the production model. Sabine had to man it to help with the lack of proper Fire Control System that the prototype had.

Also, it seems to be quite faster than the production model, or more agile, or both.

It also seems to sustain direct fire from Kallus' laser bateries for a good while, at the same time that the A-Wings were just popping under simple TIE Fighter fire, so it seems it at least shares the shield power of the production model.

Quarrie mentions that it has ion cannons, and the high energy blaster.

Hera, however, wasn't impressed on the standard blaster cannons during her test flight.

So what about:

Attack 2

Agility 2

Hull 3

Shield 5

Actions: Focus, Barrel Roll

Upgrades: Crew, Cannon, Cannon, Torpedo, Torpedo

Dial:

Straights: 1 Green, 2 Green, 3 Green, 4 White.

Banks: 1 Green, 2 White, 3 White

Turns 1 Green, 2 White, 3 Red

Koiograns: 1 Red, 2 Red, 3 Red

High Energy Blaster

Cannon, Cannon

Attack: 2 Range: 2-3

Attack [Focus]: Spend a Focus token to perform this attack. You may assign up to 4 stress tokens to your ship. For each stress token assigned this way, you may roll one extra attack die.

Cost 5

Pilots:

Blade-Wing Prototype pilot. PS 1. Cost 20

Phoenix group pilot: PS 3. Cost 21. EPT

Keyan Farlander: PS 7. Cost 27. EPT. When attacking, you may remove one Stress token to change all Eye results into Hit results.

Hera Syndulla: PS 8. Cost 28. EPT. You may equip upgrades that are Ghost only . You may dock the Phantom .

What do you think, people? Will FFG bring the Blade-Wing prototype to X-Wing, just like what the did with the TIE Advanced Prototype?

It is certainly not the same ship than the B-Wing we have here.

This one has a permanent crew pod where the cannons pod is in the production model. Sabine had to man it to help with the lack of proper Fire Control System that the prototype had.

Also, it seems to be quite faster than the production model, or more agile, or both.

It also seems to sustain direct fire from Kallus' laser bateries for a good while, at the same time that the A-Wings were just popping under simple TIE Fighter fire, so it seems it at least shares the shield power of the production model.

Quarrie mentions that it has ion cannons, and the high energy blaster.

Hera, however, wasn't impressed on the standard blaster cannons during her test flight.

So what about:

Attack 2

Agility 2

Hull 3

Shield 5

Actions: Focus, Barrel Roll

Upgrades: Crew, Cannon, Cannon, Torpedo, Torpedo

Dial:

Straights: 1 Green, 2 Green, 3 Green, 4 White.

Banks: 1 Green, 2 White, 3 White

Turns 1 Green, 2 White, 3 Red

Koiograns: 1 Red, 2 Red, 3 Red

High Energy Blaster

Cannon, Cannon

Attack: 2 Range: 2-3

Attack [Focus]: Spend a Focus token to perform this attack. You may assign up to 4 stress tokens to your ship. For each stress token assigned this way, you may roll one extra attack die.

Cost 5

Pilots:

Blade-Wing Prototype pilot. PS 1. Cost 20

Phoenix group pilot: PS 3. Cost 21. EPT

Keyan Farlander: PS 7. Cost 27. EPT. When attacking, you may remove one Stress token to change all Eye results into Hit results.

Hera Syndulla: PS 8. Cost 28. EPT. You may equip upgrades that are Ghost only . You may dock the Phantom .

It's too good. Only 25 points for 8 hp with 2 greens, green 1 turns and the option to roll 6 dice and worry about the consequences later.

Yeah that blade wing with what it had should be a 50 pointer. So probably 31 base.

Even when it has the punch of an A-Wing if naked? Without even having the Target Lock action?

If it shoots the special cannon at full power, it won't be able to shoot it again until it gets rid of all the stress. That is at least 3 rounds without shooting it, and limiting itself to unmodified 2 dice attacks.

It has great speed one moves, but that makes it really slow and predictable.

Well, I guess that's why I am no game designer.

The ship doesn't look any different from a normal B-Wing, so I don't imagine it would get it's own ship. Title card for the B-Wing more likely.

Maybe just a Hera pilot card, with PS7 and the ability to ion yourself to get an extra damage die.

The ship doesn't look any different from a normal B-Wing, so I don't imagine it would get it's own ship. Title card for the B-Wing more likely.

Not any different at all?

The engine is sensibly bigger. The cockpit is smaller and lacks great part of the lower half.

The triple cannon pod in the opposite end is instead a gunner cockpit.

And it obviously moves and attacks in a totally different way.

This prototype is clearly inspired on the discarded concept art for the B-Wing from Return of the Jedi.

At least it is as different from the production B-Wing as the TIE/A prototype is from the X1.

The ship doesn't look any different from a normal B-Wing, so I don't imagine it would get it's own ship. Title card for the B-Wing more likely.

Not any different at all?

The engine is sensibly bigger. The cockpit is smaller and lacks great part of the lower half.

The triple cannon pod in the opposite end is instead a gunner cockpit.

And it obviously moves and attacks in a totally different way.

This prototype is clearly inspired on the discarded concept art for the B-Wing from Return of the Jedi.

At least it is as different from the production B-Wing as the TIE/A prototype is from the X1.

Well, at least as different as the TIE is to TIE/fo or fo is to the special forces TIE.

So, I'm not entirely convinced that the composite-beam weapon in this episode wasn't just the ship's Ion Cannons.

Here's the ship's entry on the Databank .

It lists it as having Ion Cannons and Proton Torpedoes, but makes no mention of the weapon we saw.

I think the weapon we see is really just a portable version of the Ion Cannon we see on Hoth. Which is why it's able to knock out a cruiser in two hits. You can also see when the weapon hits that, while there is an explosion, there are also lightning effects on the cruiser.

Not any different at all?

The engine is sensibly bigger. The cockpit is smaller and lacks great part of the lower half.

The triple cannon pod in the opposite end is instead a gunner cockpit.

And it obviously moves and attacks in a totally different way.

This prototype is clearly inspired on the discarded concept art for the B-Wing from Return of the Jedi.

Just like the weird Star Destroyers are still normal Star Destroyers, and the weird A-Wings are still just A-Wings, it's still just a B-Wing.

Yeah, it's weapons loadout is different, but that doesn't require a new model.

Well, at least as different as the TIE is to TIE/fo or fo is to the special forces TIE.

Just an idea:

Title. Prototype B-wing whatever. Unique

Your upgrade bar loses the System (icon)upgrade. Your upgrade bar gains the Crew (icon) upgrade and your action bar gains the Boost (icon) action.

3 points? Losing the system slot is kind of huge...

High Energy Blaster Whatever. B-wing Prototype only. (can't let every one have it.)

Cannon.

Attack: 2 Range: 1-2

Attack: Attack 1 ship.

If this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage and 2 critical damage. Then cancel all dice results. Your ship receives one stress token.

Cost 5?

It would be pretty deadly against lower agility targets, but its fairly inaccurate against higher agility. However if you hit them they will feel it. Ties will be vaporized.

So cheapest you could run this is 30 points with a standard Blue Squadron. Ten Numb would be awesome in the B-wing Prototype as he can get an uncancelable hit with the high energy beam. However that combo is 39 points. He'd have to run Calculation or Marksmanship to ensure he had the crit. That's a 40 point B-wing.