I'm still hoping the stormtroopers will gain a level in badassery at some point. Comic troopers are nice, but I don't even blink when they fire anymore. I remember them kicking ice and chewing gum on Hoth, and they captured a commando team so fast on Endor that even old Han had to resort to tossing bombs like footballs (until the plotarmor teddy squad ripped them a new one): are they really just white battle droids now?

Edit. In your head, right now, conjure up a B-1 battle droid and put it in stormtrooper armor. If it were placed in a scene with a bunch of Rebels stormtroopers would anyone even notice?

Edit. In your head, right now, conjure up a B-1 battle droid and put it in stormtrooper armor. If it were placed in a scene with a bunch of Rebels stormtroopers would anyone even notice?

Roger Roger.

I do hope Rex sticks around.

Gregor...um...he's uh...different...from his last appearance.

He's gone a bit bonkers since then.

He was in a small explosion during the Clone Wars.

I'm still hoping the stormtroopers will gain a level in badassery at some point. Comic troopers are nice, but I don't even blink when they fire anymore. I remember them kicking ice and chewing gum on Hoth, and they captured a commando team so fast on Endor that even old Han had to resort to tossing bombs like footballs (until the plotarmor teddy squad ripped them a new one): are they really just white battle droids now?

Edit. In your head, right now, conjure up a B-1 battle droid and put it in stormtrooper armor. If it were placed in a scene with a bunch of Rebels stormtroopers would anyone even notice?

We're not like those Separatist battle droids, we're independent thinkers!

Maybe the Empire hasn't been fighting many enemies since the end of the Clone Wars. Maybe the enemies they have been fighting have mostly been push overs. Maybe the Stormtrooper Corps is caught in a bureaucratic morass of peace-time garrison duty thinking, more concerned with red tape administration than with combat (think the US military in the 90s or between the end of Vietnam and the invasion of Panama). Maybe the embarrassments the Stormtrooper Corps - and the Empire - suffer at the hands of the budding rebellion leads to major pressure from Imperial leadership (Emperor on down) to reform the Imperial military - Army, Navy, Stormtrooper Corps - into a more capable fighting machine. Maybe as a result we will see the Empire become more effective over the course of the series. Leading the series to become darker and darker as the Empire becomes more effective at tracking the rebels and more effective at fighting them.

Or Lothal is a backwater planet that doesn't use the elite of the Empire?

Or Lothal is a backwater planet that doesn't use the elite of the Empire?

This.

On top of that, when Vader came in, The Empire started REALLY ripping rear ends open and spi-... Too far.

They served the rebels pretty hard. I mean they can't go back to Lothal. That means they won.

I'm still hoping the stormtroopers will gain a level in badassery at some point.

They're mooks and always will be moooks. They'll be as good or bad as the story requires. They will never be a real threat to the heroes, because they're not villains they're mooks.

They served the rebels pretty hard. I mean they can't go back to Lothal.

They can't right now, but I think they will end up back there. Mostly though the story needed a reason to drive this cell off Lothal so they'd hook up with other cells.

But it wasn't the Empire that did it, it was Darth Vader who did it, because he as a proper Villain is a match and in this case more than a match for the heroes.

I too would like to see "real" stormtroopers.

I'm a TK as well (until I get my BRIAN).

This said. I'll say it again because it bears repetition.

Every. Single. Time. In. The. O.T. Where. The. Storm.Troopers. Were. Actually. Storming, by. Which. I. mean. They. Were. On. The. Offensive. They. Kicked. Ass.

Let's look at the tantive IV. Single door, choke point, squad of hostiles with guns pointed at said door? Did the stormtroopers give any ****? No. No they did not. Went on through killing the hell out of whatever rebel scum they encountered.

Even In Jedi knight 2, they were pretty accurate and a significant threat until Kyle Star wars Chuck Norris gets a lightsabre, and really, losing to Star Wars Chuck Norris is not something to be ashamed of.

Stormtroopers make **** garrison troops where their talents are wasted, and even worse police officers. But get 40 of them in a transport and board a disabled Corvette and ****, that corvette is taken.

So: Two possibilities exist. Either Stormtroopers on Garrison duty are new recruits, or otherwise washouts - while the real ones do real jobs or those helmets restrict vision so much that garrison duty in that kit is just woefully dumb.

By the way, those helmets grant tunnel vision from hell...

I do hope Rex sticks around.

Gregor...um...he's uh...different...from his last appearance.

I don't think he's going to. Disney played a video within minutes of the episode showing a pretty significant spoiler from next week's episode.

I don't think Rex sticking around, at least at first makes sense. He's clearly had his fill of war and quite bitter about it all.

I mean think about it, everything he did ultimately lead to the foundation of the Empire. It was like he was fighting for the good guys the whole time, only to find out he was actually one of the bad guys. Would make just about anyone bitter.

I do hope Rex sticks around.

Gregor...um...he's uh...different...from his last appearance.

He's gone a bit bonkers since then.

He was in a small explosion during the Clone Wars.

I'm still hoping the stormtroopers will gain a level in badassery at some point. Comic troopers are nice, but I don't even blink when they fire anymore. I remember them kicking ice and chewing gum on Hoth, and they captured a commando team so fast on Endor that even old Han had to resort to tossing bombs like footballs (until the plotarmor teddy squad ripped them a new one): are they really just white battle droids now?

Edit. In your head, right now, conjure up a B-1 battle droid and put it in stormtrooper armor. If it were placed in a scene with a bunch of Rebels stormtroopers would anyone even notice?

We're not like those Separatist battle droids, we're independent thinkers!

Maybe the Empire hasn't been fighting many enemies since the end of the Clone Wars. Maybe the enemies they have been fighting have mostly been push overs. Maybe the Stormtrooper Corps is caught in a bureaucratic morass of peace-time garrison duty thinking, more concerned with red tape administration than with combat (think the US military in the 90s or between the end of Vietnam and the invasion of Panama). Maybe the embarrassments the Stormtrooper Corps - and the Empire - suffer at the hands of the budding rebellion leads to major pressure from Imperial leadership (Emperor on down) to reform the Imperial military - Army, Navy, Stormtrooper Corps - into a more capable fighting machine. Maybe as a result we will see the Empire become more effective over the course of the series. Leading the series to become darker and darker as the Empire becomes more effective at tracking the rebels and more effective at fighting them.

This said. I'll say it again because it bears repetition.

Every example you list is either mook on mook action, or plot driven. Storm troopers were a threat in JK, but only because it was a video game, so they had to be. But even then they weren't a huge threat. You mowed through them quite effectively and easily, lightsaber or gun.

Even in the movies, the Ewoks make pretty quick work of the Stormtroopers.

You can try and pass it off as garrison vs assault troopers or whatever else you wish. But Movie wise, there is no difference between the various troops you see.

You'll never see truly elite stormtroopers in a Star Wars movie or TV show, you could see the single elite stormtrooper captain or something, who would be a minor threat to the heroes. But you'll never see a large number of elite stormtroopers because that is contrary to the nature of space opera.

I really really want an Imperial Light Cruiser in the game but I thought it was too big.(a while back, wookieepedia had it at 200m, quite bigger than the CR90 & Raider)

BUT now I can't find a source for the approx dimensions- the wiki has deleted it's length stat altogether. Or I can't find it.

Then I daydreamed that FFG is making it for X-wing (tweaking the scale so it's a few inches longer than the other biguns). On the show it looks about 30 meter bigger, so I'm sure it won't be too big for the 6x3 mat.

This said. I'll say it again because it bears repetition.

Every example you list is either mook on mook action, or plot driven. Storm troopers were a threat in JK, but only because it was a video game, so they had to be. But even then they weren't a huge threat. You mowed through them quite effectively and easily, lightsaber or gun.

I'm not disputing that Stormtroopers are mooks, merely the level of mook they are.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EliteMooks

Even in the movies, the Ewoks make pretty quick work of the Stormtroopers.

As well as the Rebel heroes, everyone keeps forgetting.

You can try and pass it off as garrison vs assault troopers or whatever else you wish. But Movie wise, there is no difference between the various troops you see.

If you go by the OT, sure. Because they are all completely faceless in the same uniforms. Is it that different from real life military, if you don't know the insignia?

You'll never see truly elite stormtroopers in a Star Wars movie or TV show, you could see the single elite stormtrooper captain or something, who would be a minor threat to the heroes. But you'll never see a large number of elite stormtroopers because that is contrary to the nature of space opera.

This is sadly probably true, this said - Blakes 7. I'm ok with Stormtroopers being mooks, I'm a lot less ok with Stormtroopers being comic relief. I'm not saying kill all the heroes with Stormtroopers, merely let them be competent, kill a few red and mauve shirts, capture and ruffle up the heroes a bit etc. It's not a black and white scale of Useless stormtroopers to herokilling deathmachine stormtroopers, there are many levels inbetween. 50 shades of white armour, as it were.

Man, i've got the worst images in my head after that last one. Thanks.

Addressed in bold, as is my wont.

Because they are all completely faceless in the same uniforms. Is it that different from real life military, if you don't know the insignia?

But there's not even insignia on Stormtroopers. There is nothing that really sets apart the ones on Lothal from the ones that stormed the Tantive IV.

Yes the Ewoks captured the heroes, but it was pretty clear that they went along with them mostly because they wanted to see what would happen next. Luke was never in any real danger. Plus there was four people and two droids vs a company or more of troopers.

I'm ok with Stormtroopers being mooks, I'm a lot less ok with Stormtroopers being comic relief.

I get that and the ones in Rebels tend to be just that. I expect the ones in TFA will be less so, but in Rebels you'll seldom see them being much more because it is marketed more towards kids. But I'd bet even in Rebels if there's ever a large group of rebel troopers you'll see some of them taken out by stormtroopers.

Also while you may be ok with it, I know a number of people who aren't, they don't quite seem to get what the whole point of a mook is.

Really, the TV trope link says it all. Elite Mooks.

I get that it's marketed towards kids, but that's just it. Let's look at the TCW Elite Battle droids, the black/brown ones.

They kicked ass and didn't act stupidly.

They killed a few clones.

At this point, all I want is a TIE Fighter to kill a rebel mookship, or a Stormtrooper to kill a Rebel red or mauve shirt.

Hell, any mauve shirt death caused by a SIM (Standard Imperial Mook) just to prove that the Empire is capable of at least some level of competence would be welcome.

Heroes are defined by their villains, if your villains are a bunch of uncoordinated bumbling jackasses who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if they were leaning on it... what kind of heroes are you?

Stormtroopers are mooks. But they are mooks suffering from the worst case of mook decay on record with the possible exceptions of Nazi Stormtroopers (Of which they are based) and Zombies (who only kill people who are dumb, really dumb, or to make a point that something is dumb).

Even the Borg, Klingons and Demons from Supernatural didn't get it quite this bad. Hell, Even Stargate villains hold up better.

At this point, all I want is a TIE Fighter to kill a rebel mookship, or a Stormtrooper to kill a Rebel red or mauve shirt.

what kind of heroes are you?

I agree completely to both points. I wouldn't mind seeing stormtroopers being able to hit something, and I agree that if the enemy is hopeless it doesn't mean much when you defeat them.

I'd also, in closing like to throw this out there:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatMeasureIsAMook

At this point, all I want is a TIE Fighter to kill a rebel mookship, or a Stormtrooper to kill a Rebel red or mauve shirt.

what kind of heroes are you?

I agree completely to both points. I wouldn't mind seeing stormtroopers being able to hit something, and I agree that if the enemy is hopeless it doesn't mean much when you defeat th em.

Especially in a kids show!

If kids are not shown that evil people with guns are willing and able to use their weapons efficiently with force and intend it will give children the idea that they don't have anything to fear at all.

That's a quite a bad concept, in my opinion. Overconfidence can kill you pretty fast.

There is a reason the traditional fairy tales weren't as mushy and diluted as the Disney versions are these days.

Every. Single. Time. In. The. O.T. Where. The. Storm.Troopers. Were. Actually. Storming.

Stormtroopers, storming. I am never saying "stormtroopers walk" ever again.

On a different note, I agree with Sithborg back a few pages ago about how well Freddy did with Kenan's reaction to the clones.

All in all I think he's one of the best characters in the show. He has more depth than a lot of others I've seen in other shows.

I'm not disputing that Stormtroopers are mooks, merely the level of mook they are.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EliteMooks

I would grant you that, if any of the movies ever showed us an example of an Imperial non-EliteMook. Even though lore says Stormtroopers are supposed to be highly trained, they are still the lowest level Imperial soldier provided by the films.

On a different note, I agree with Sithborg back a few pages ago about how well Freddy did with Kenan's reaction to the clones.

All in all I think he's one of the best characters in the show. He has more depth than a lot of others I've seen in other shows.

Him and Vanessa Marshall are great. They have really sold Kanan's and Hera's relationship without blatantly telling the audience.

I'm not disputing that Stormtroopers are mooks, merely the level of mook they are.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EliteMooks

I would grant you that, if any of the movies ever showed us an example of an Imperial non-EliteMook. Even though lore says Stormtroopers are supposed to be highly trained, they are still the lowest level Imperial soldier provided by the films.

and this circles back to the Tantive IV, where they are clearly kicking the everloving **** out of regular mooks.

The big point is that in the movies the Stormtroopers are only ever accidentally comic relief.

Two of them even hit Leia... Who, let's be reasonable while at short range is less than a man sized target...

It all comes back to mook decay.

First time you see them, they are roflstomping rebels, it just goes downhill from there.

They have really sold Kanan's and Hera's relationship without blatantly telling the audience.

I agree. Hera is nearly on par with Kanan IMO, but she gets so little screen time compared to the rest I don't feel like they've done much with the character.

I agree they did a great job with the relationship between the two. It's clear that they're involved but it's very subtle and it wasn't until a few episodes in that I was sure one way or the other.

I really like that they're exploring what it would be like for a Padawan who's been forced to get along without the Jedi Order, and having the Empire hunting for him. Although it seems like the Empire isn't quite as ruthless in the hunt for a Jedi as I would of thought. It's like they're more interested in him because he's a rebel and less because he's a Jedi.

I think that may change a bit in season 2. But even when Vader was there, he still seemed to treat him more as a rebel then a Jedi that needed to be eliminated.

Hera is the greatest space mom ever. I NEED to hear her call out each character's full name.

As for treating the Jedi the same as rebels, I think that was the point of the Inquisitors. I doubt the Inquisitor would've been called in if Kanan had not revealed himself. And after it was clear that a Jedi was with the rebels, you might as well try to eliminate multiple problems. And the Inquisitor was interested in converting Ezra. And now two more are being brought in. I think it helps to think of Jedi as requiring a specialist's help, aka the Inquisitors.