Oh dang it forgot the high ground example of hubris from movie 3. Obi Wan straight tells him he will lose and why and Annikin still tries the leap and gets himself seriously maimed in the process.

Now, please don't quote him. The white bars are much more pleasant than his incoherent rants.

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I don't think the Stormtroopers will ever get the Clone Troopers treatment of being portrayed as real soldiers doing a job. They are called Stormtroopers after the Nazi guys, you know, so they will either be unsympathetic goons or slightly threatening comic relief.

It's a bit of a shame though.

I don't think the Stormtroopers will ever get the Clone Troopers treatment of being portrayed as real soldiers doing a job. They are called Stormtroopers after the Nazi guys, you know, so they will either be unsympathetic goons or slightly threatening comic relief.

It's a bit of a shame though.

In the Season 2 trailer, Rex is definitely not impressed with the current crop of Imperial soldiery. And Clone Commander Cody stated that if Jango Fett had seen what had become of his legacy, he would have killed every last Stormtrooper he could.

So with the siege of lothal episodes, and wave 8, do you think we'll see the rebels command vessel as another epic later down the line, as well as some Ps 2 Phoenix squadron pilots, maybe? And if the trailer hints at anything, maybe Hera in a B-wing? (and some Ps 3 Grey squadron B-wing pilots as well, Gray squadron had both B's and Y's at endor!) Of course I wouldn't expect these immediately (The B-wings/A-wings don't really need "fixes" or anything special like that since Rebel aces, but it would in my opinion, be nice to see some fresh pilot cards for them, Mabye an R-22 title card, and B-wing prototype card), but I would like to see the A/B-wing get some more love later down the line. After the scum epic ship, of course.

Also another Rebels topic, do you think Sabine's past will eventually be explained, so that we know what happened to the mandalorians' after the clone wars. Because

I am very unhappy that they made mandalore a death watch darth maul controlled planet and then ended the series before finishing that sub-plot. sure Savage died, but what about the rest of the mandalorians? And Boba? He didn't learn how to be a mando bounty hunter sitting in republic prison with Bossk!

thoughts?

I'm hoping that Boba Fett shows up in Rebels at some point, maybe with another Mandalorian, learning/just learned the ropes of being a Bounty Hunter. Maybe he does better than all of the others, which is how he ends up on Darth Vader's radar for Episode 5.

EDIT: It might also be some decent development from Sabine, seeing some of her own people working against her?

In the previews for Season Two they show Ahsoka beaning Boba in the head with a big stick.

Why is anyone calling Rebels Vader derpy? He crushed every opponent he faced, easily. Kannen and the kid took the inquisitor, they only barely got away from Vader and, and he let them go. Vader used a star fighter to crush a upgraded frigate. He killed how many AWings?

The only thing you could argue is hubris, when he said job well done after killing one ship. However, both the Emperor and Vader can list hubris as ongoing character flaws.

Because the person calling Vader derpy is just trolling this thread because he hates the show to the very core of his being. Just ignore what the troll has to say and you'll be much better off.

He hates everything since Disney killed the expanded universe. He's delusional.

Argh really people they went down the trench because there are less anti fighter defences than on the surface.

Turbo lasers have a long range in the open you have dozens of turrets with los, in the trench you have cover from those and only a few turrets in the actual trench.

That is still not very satisfactory as they stayed outside the trench most of the time except attack runs. Hell, they took shots at turrets during the initial stages of the battle, before ties arrive. Why not, as a group, attack the turrets defending that port and then have clear runs at it. Much shorter runs where you'd get more chances.

That assumes that the defenses were uniform along the entire length of the trench.

It's possible that the concentration of anti-fighter defenses was higher around the vulnerable exhaust port. And the plan was to approach the Death Star and enter the trench at a less defended point, then travel along it to their destination.

Ships flying above the trench but not in it would have been sitting ducks for all the surface guns out to the horizon, not to mention all the other guns in the trenches. Flying in the trench limited the guns firing on them to a much smaller set that was easier to evade while flying in a relatively straight line. The trench was acting as cover.

I'mma (try to) break this down Barney style:

Imagine that you have fifteen guys with bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot dozens of ducks flying all over a perfectly open sky. How easy is that going to be?

Now imagine that you have two bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot three ducks, but they're flying down a hallway and they can only fly directly toward you or away from you.

Guess how you're going to end up with more dead ducks? Hitting something moving laterally is much, much more difficult than hitting something that is moving directly towards you or away from you. You might call it zigging and zagging or moving in a "serpentine" fashion or whatever. But something that is taught in most schools of defense is lateral movement. Even in nature, the inclination of an animal is to move perpendicular to the angle of attack (except at extreme close range) rather than directly away from the threat. Someone trying to shoot at you will have a much harder time of it and someone trying to physically attack you is going to have to slow down to turn - all while you can continue to accelerate.

But Star Wars isn't ruled by logic, it operates under the rule of cool.

I don't think the Stormtroopers will ever get the Clone Troopers treatment of being portrayed as real soldiers doing a job. They are called Stormtroopers after the Nazi guys, you know, so they will either be unsympathetic goons or slightly threatening comic relief.

It's a bit of a shame though.

In the Season 2 trailer, Rex is definitely not impressed with the current crop of Imperial soldiery. And Clone Commander Cody stated that if Jango Fett had seen what had become of his legacy, he would have killed every last Stormtrooper he could.

Well of course. To see the huge difference in quality is easy when TCW was only a year or so behind us when Rebels started. If I was Jhango or a clone I would totally resent the stormies. It just precludes the kind of Everyman stories that we got in the previous show, unless they use some generic rebels outside the main group. And then what would the point be?

Imagine that you have fifteen guys with bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot dozens of ducks flying all over a perfectly open sky. How easy is that going to be?

Now imagine that you have two bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot three ducks, but they're flying down a hallway and they can only fly directly toward you or away from you.

Yeah, but what if the first group isn't fifteen guys, it's a hundred.

To satisfy me, all I want is them to have dignity. Not looking like total dumbasses. Maybe them winging a main character, maybe a TIE Fighter actively dodging a laser bolt here or there. Maybe some rebel mauve shirts biting it to a stormy or TIE. But really. Not looking like utter dolts would do it. It's not asking much.

I'll remind you, I like rebels, I get why things are as they are. But I will post against inaccurate data.

I'll say again. A Hero is defined by his villains.

Rebels has very good villains, the named ones like kallus and the inquisitor, those guys kick butt.

Imagine that you have fifteen guys with bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot dozens of ducks flying all over a perfectly open sky. How easy is that going to be?

Now imagine that you have two bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot three ducks, but they're flying down a hallway and they can only fly directly toward you or away from you.

Yeah, but what if the first group isn't fifteen guys, it's a hundred.

But then the second group becomes 15. There was nothing in the movie that indicated the disparity in the guns was that large. If anything they showed more fire at fighters in the trench than outside it.

There was nothing in the movie that indicated the disparity in the guns was that large.

Nothing that indicates that it wasn't either.

Imagine that you have fifteen guys with bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot dozens of ducks flying all over a perfectly open sky. How easy is that going to be?

Now imagine that you have two bolt action rifles and you're trying to shoot three ducks, but they're flying down a hallway and they can only fly directly toward you or away from you.

Yeah, but what if the first group isn't fifteen guys, it's a hundred.

Then I direct you to the rather atrocious record of German Flugabwehrkanone: Yes, they knocked some bombers out of the sky. But not very many. And these were bombers flying during day lights, often in clear skies, in straight lines, at constant speeds, consistent altitudes, and in tight formations.

Most kills scored against bombers were scored by fighters. And they were scored by fighters flying directly behind the bombers (but not directly behind the tail gunner - again, bombers with their own guns proved significantly less capable of defending against enemy fighters than escorting fighters did) or attacking them head-on.

Most kills scored against bombers were scored by fighters. And they were scored by fighters flying directly behind the bombers (but not directly behind the tail gunner - again, bombers with their own guns proved significantly less capable of defending against enemy fighters than escorting fighters did) or attacking them head-on.

I didn't think you were talking about the TIEs. I thought you were talking about turrets outside the trench vs. the ones inside the trench.

Most kills scored against bombers were scored by fighters. And they were scored by fighters flying directly behind the bombers (but not directly behind the tail gunner - again, bombers with their own guns proved significantly less capable of defending against enemy fighters than escorting fighters did) or attacking them head-on.

I didn't think you were talking about the TIEs. I thought you were talking about turrets outside the trench vs. the ones inside the trench.

Same principle applies. It's drastically easier to hit an essentially stationary target than it is to hit one moving on a horizontal axis

Same principle applies. It's drastically easier to hit an essentially stationary target than it is to hit one moving on a horizontal axis

Granted, but keep in mind that fighters outside the trench would have to fly just as straight as the ones inside the trench. As they had to use targeting computers to lock onto the port(at least, the ones without the Force). So the supposed benefit of being in an open space is completely negated at that point. A ship flying in a straight line down a corridor with a few guns shooting at it is probably less likely to get shot down than a ship flying in a straight line outside with lots of guns shooting at it. Because they're both flying in a straight line towards a predictable point.

So the supposed benefit of being in an open space is completely negated at that point.

No it's not. You would have a cone leading up to the port, and any place inside that cone would be effective for locking on with the targeting computer. That means until you get fairly close to the port you'd have a ton of room in which to move. Even when you get close you would still be no worse off then in the trench which left them very little room to maneuver.

If you came in at it from above you could enter any where in that cone, and would not need to come in on a straight line, you could move anywhere with in the cone and still have the TC doing it's thing.

Same principle applies. It's drastically easier to hit an essentially stationary target than it is to hit one moving on a horizontal axis

Granted, but keep in mind that fighters outside the trench would have to fly just as straight as the ones inside the trench. As they had to use targeting computers to lock onto the port(at least, the ones without the Force). So the supposed benefit of being in an open space is completely negated at that point. A ship flying in a straight line down a corridor with a few guns shooting at it is probably less likely to get shot down than a ship flying in a straight line outside with lots of guns shooting at it. Because they're both flying in a straight line towards a predictable point.

I disagree with this premise. They fly in the trench a lot longer than they use their targeting computers. These same computers have to be able to lock onto other fighters or other things that won't sit still. So even if they had to go in a straight line long enough to lock on, it's not nearly as long as a trench lined with guns. Also you could have multiple ships coming in at once to spread out the threat, not to mention you could just blow those guns up.

That means until you get fairly close to the port you'd have a ton of room in which to move.

Fairly close? Did you see how long those Targeting Computers had to work? It's like over 30 seconds from the port. That's forever to shoot down someone that's not maneuvering anymore with miles of turrets able to drawn line of fire to them.

Fair point.

That's forever to shoot down someone that's not maneuvering anymore with miles of turrets able to drawn line of fire to them.

Who says they can't maneuver? They didn't in the trench because there was no room. But as long as they were pointing at the port, there's no reason they couldn't jink back and forth or even corkscrew around the cone and still keep pointing the TC at the port.

Unless we accept that the Targeting Computers on a X-Wing are so bad that the ship can't move at all. Which based on the fact that they did in fact move even if not much would mean they would of had more room to move outside the trench then in it.

If we want to accept that premise, fine I'd be willing to then accept that the trench made more sense. If the X-Wings have to say relatively still for the computer to work, then the trench run would be tactically sound.

But the fact is, that Lucas wanted to make it look like a bombing run from a movie about WW2, so he had no tactical or technological reasons in mind.

Stormies in Rebels are most likely recruits from Lothal and other Outerrim worlds. The academy episode shows that the most talented recruits are weeded out and sent into other programs or, if they are force sensative, well, it's not pleasant. That leaves mediocre troops to patrol the backwaters of the Galaxy. It's not exactly best practices but they get a lot of manpower to project over a vast territory to maintain control and keep the populace cowed. Also the most dangerous potential dissidents are rounded up and indoctrinated while still young.

Does this help explain a few things?

From the video it looks like more Inquisitors are set to appear, so maybe Force-sensitives are trucked off, indoctrinated, trained up, and become the Inquisitors. Clearly Creepy Uncle Palpatine thought training up lil youn 'ins was a good idea, and set up his own HItler Jugend for Sith. (Sith Jugend?) I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of "evil orphanage" episode later on. A little dark for a Disney show, but it would be great TV.

Stormies in Rebels are most likely recruits from Lothal and other Outerrim worlds. The academy episode shows that the most talented recruits are weeded out and sent into other programs or, if they are force sensative, well, it's not pleasant. That leaves mediocre troops to patrol the backwaters of the Galaxy. It's not exactly best practices but they get a lot of manpower to project over a vast territory to maintain control and keep the populace cowed. Also the most dangerous potential dissidents are rounded up and indoctrinated while still young.

Does this help explain a few things?

From the video it looks like more Inquisitors are set to appear, so maybe Force-sensitives are trucked off, indoctrinated, trained up, and become the Inquisitors. Clearly Creepy Uncle Palpatine thought training up lil youn 'ins was a good idea, and set up his own HItler Jugend for Sith. (Sith Jugend?) I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of "evil orphanage" episode later on. A little dark for a Disney show, but it would be great TV.

Sounds like the Shadow Academy...

You know. I've thought of one justification that makes sense.

Stormtroopers, as I have previously mentioned have an A++ track record when they are on the offensive.

Garrison troopers are the dregs.

The best troops are in invasion/assault units.

That's forever to shoot down someone that's not maneuvering anymore with miles of turrets able to drawn line of fire to them.

Who says they can't maneuver? They didn't in the trench because there was no room. But as long as they were pointing at the port, there's no reason they couldn't jink back and forth or even corkscrew around the cone and still keep pointing the TC at the port.Unless we accept that the Targeting Computers on a X-Wing are so bad that the ship can't move at all. Which based on the fact that they did in fact move even if not much would mean they would of had more room to move outside the trench then in it.If we want to accept that premise, fine I'd be willing to then accept that the trench made more sense. If the X-Wings have to say relatively still for the computer to work, then the trench run would be tactically sound.But the fact is, that Lucas wanted to make it look like a bombing run from a movie about WW2, so he had no tactical or technological reasons in mind.

One of those films Lucas used for inspiration was The Dam Busters, a film depicting 633 Squadron's attack on Germany's dams in the Ruhr valley in WW2. He even included lines of dialogue from that film in the Death Star attack runs down the trench.

The best troops are in invasion/assault units.

That is typically true of RL military. The best units are the ones you send in first, and the guys who are acceptable but not outstanding are left behind to guard the fort.

From the video it looks like more Inquisitors are set to appear, so maybe Force-sensitives are trucked off, indoctrinated, trained up, and become the Inquisitors. Clearly Creepy Uncle Palpatine thought training up lil youn 'ins was a good idea, and set up his own HItler Jugend for Sith. (Sith Jugend?) I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of "evil orphanage" episode later on. A little dark for a Disney show, but it would be great TV.

Agent Carter had a scene like that so it's not too dark for Disney. Given we have already had deaths and a double beheading I think you have decent odds of getting to see this.

One of those films Lucas used for inspiration was The Dam Busters, a film depicting 633 Squadron's attack on Germany's dams in the Ruhr valley in WW2. He even included lines of dialogue from that film in the Death Star attack runs down the trench.

The Dambusters were 617 Squadron. 633 Squadron is a fictional Mosquito squadron from the euphoniums movie. Both the Dambusters raid and the 633 Squadron movie were inspirations for the Death Star raid, the latter more so as it features a bombing run down a long, narrow fjord lined with anti-aircraft guns.