Ships flying above the trench but not in it would have been sitting ducks for all the surface guns out to the horizon, not to mention all the other guns in the trenches. Flying in the trench limited the guns firing on them to a much smaller set that was easier to evade while flying in a relatively straight line. The trench was acting as cover.

Ships flying above the trench but not in it would have been sitting ducks for all the surface guns out to the horizon

You mean all those guns that couldn't track them because the fighters were too fast?

Ships flying above the trench but not in it would have been sitting ducks for all the surface guns out to the horizon

You mean all those guns that couldn't track them because the fighters were too fast?

Besides why put extra protection around something that isn't supposed to be vulnerable in the first place?

I think the idea that the exhaust port was a complete unknown to the Empire is unlikely. The Rebels found it after looking at the plans for a few hours.

It's likely the Empire knew it was there and just figured "We'll just put ray shields on it and a bunch of turrets around it and it'll be fine. What are they gonna do? Fly down the trench? They'd be sitting ducks for our fighters."

Empire didn't know about it until during the battle, as was pointed out in the film by the officer telling Tarkin that they've analysed the Rebel attack.

Also, flying in formation against static defences that can't hit SINGLE ships seems daft.

The TIE's were sent to take care of the scattered ships before they had an opportunity to regroup before their attack runs.

The movie dialog says that the Rebel ships were to small to be tracked by the turbo lasers, so they'd have to launch ties and destroy them ship to ship. So all these theories about why they made the trench run, is really simply more of the "when he said parsec he really meant..."

I think the idea that the exhaust port was a complete unknown to the Empire is unlikely.

And again the dialog from the movie doesn't back that up, in fact it makes it quite clear that they didn't care if they had the plans because the DS had no weakness.

Admiral Motti: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe! I suggest we use it.

And...

Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances

So no, it's quite clear that they did not know about the vulnerability of the port. the fact is that the only purpose for the trench run was drama. George is not a tactical genius, he's a movie maker. So he did things that made for a good movie.

The TIE's were sent to take care of the scattered ships before they had an opportunity to regroup before their attack runs.

The movie dialog says that the Rebel ships were to small to be tracked by the turbo lasers, so they'd have to launch ties and destroy them ship to ship. So all these theories about why they made the trench run, is really simply more of the "when he said parsec he really meant..."

Analysis of the plans show that the empire does not believe small 1 man ships are any threat or they'd have better defenses. They instead focused on larger anti-cap ship defenses.

The Empire later analyzed the attack route of the fighters and found a vulnerability. Perhaps you should evacuate Tarkin

So all these theories about why they made the trench run, is really simply more of the "when he said parsec he really meant..."

Well yeah, but that's what good fans do. Create theories to justify the things the creators didn't put any thought into.

VandorDM, have I ever said how much I appreciate your approach to reality, it's refreshing.

All of this discussion reminds me of more Vader incompetence, very similar to what happens in Rebels. His competence in Rebels is in question because he didn't cut down Kanan and Ezra quickly and instead let them go on purpose to lead him back to the Rebel fleet. That plan later went awry when the ghost escaped (never mind he actually accomplished his goal and destroyed a squadron and the rebel cap ship)

This plan sounds so familiar somehow. Was there a time that he let the heroes escape to lead him back to a rebel base? I feel like there was a Grand Moff who thought this was awfully risky for some reason. Didn't it cost the empire an entire super weapon?

So all these theories about why they made the trench run, is really simply more of the "when he said parsec he really meant..."

Well yeah, but that's what good fans do. Create theories to justify the things the creators didn't put any thought into.

And again the dialog from the movie doesn't back that up, in fact it makes it quite clear that they didn't care if they had the plans because the DS had no weakness.

Actually, no, the dialog doesn't support that either. As Tarkin clearly describes Vader's plan of letting the Rebels have the plans to find their base an "awful risk". If the DS had no weaknesses, then there wouldn't be a risk.

That's the entire point of this discussion. Fans are doing backflips to explain away Lucas' silly things, but Rebels sucks in comparison because look: silly things!

It's very true. The only crime Rebels makes which the OT doesn't is that it makes Imperial officers/stormtroopers/pilots comically incompetent.

Star Wars, upon any close inspection does a LOT of silly things.

Which even the OT does at times.

It's very true. The only crime Rebels makes which the OT doesn't is that it makes Imperial officers/stormtroopers/pilots comically incompetent.

Star Wars, upon any close inspection does a LOT of silly things.

I will agree that the cartoon does cartoony things with its run of the mill villains. More so than the OT, but jokes about the accuracy of Storm Trooper shots has been a trope long before even the prequels existed.

Which even the OT does at times.

Absolutely. It does it from ANH through to Rebels.

People need to stop micro analysing it all and just have fun with it. Well they don't 'need' to but it makes it much easier to be a fan when you accept it for what it is.

The people banging on about JJ Abrams messing it up should realise that Lucas did enough of that himself and we loved it anyway. Acceptance and peace. Any other way leads to the dark side.

Accuracy yes. But Stormtroopers in the cartoon series were way way worse, they were incompetent, not merely inaccurate.

Understand that I like Rebels a lot, and I get how it's supposed to be. But In my opinion the measure of a hero is the villain.

Anyone can beat incompetant mooks. What about fighting the Terror Troops of the Empire!(Marvel, you can have that cover name for free)

If the DS had no weaknesses, then there wouldn't be a risk.

Actually we don't know what he was referring to. The risk may of been displeasing the Emperor.

Admiral Motti clearly didn't believe the DS had any weakness. Even Tarkin didn't think there was enough of a weakness to bother getting his ship ready just in case.

Dodonna also said "Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense."

So clearly they wouldn't of bothered with extra anti-fighter defenses over that port.

I get why people try to explain stuff like this away, we want our fiction to make as much sense as possible. But as perniciousducks so wisely put it... People have issues with Rebels for doing exactly the same thing the OT did.

I honestly think that anyone who seriously dislikes Rebels is likely not going to like the new movies any better. Because Rebels does a great job of capturing the feel of the OT, and if the new movies does the same then the complaints will also be the same.

Accuracy yes. But Stormtroopers in the cartoon series were way way worse, they were incompetent, not merely inaccurate.

Understand that I like Rebels a lot, and I get how it's supposed to be. But In my opinion the measure of a hero is the villain.

Anyone can beat incompetant mooks. What about fighting the Terror Troops of the Empire!(Marvel, you can have that cover name for free)

[points to Emperor's best troops being beat by Ewoks]

Accuracy yes. But Stormtroopers in the cartoon series were way way worse, they were incompetent, not merely inaccurate.

Understand that I like Rebels a lot, and I get how it's supposed to be. But In my opinion the measure of a hero is the villain.

Anyone can beat incompetant mooks. What about fighting the Terror Troops of the Empire!(Marvel, you can have that cover name for free)

[points to Emperor's best troops being beat by Ewoks]

THE EMPIRE'S GROUND FORCES.

Remember, they were going to cook and eat the Endor party, they're cannibalis.

VandorDM, have I ever said how much I appreciate your approach to reality, it's refreshing.

All of this discussion reminds me of more Vader incompetence, very similar to what happens in Rebels. His competence in Rebels is in question because he didn't cut down Kanan and Ezra quickly and instead let them go on purpose to lead him back to the Rebel fleet. That plan later went awry when the ghost escaped (never mind he actually accomplished his goal and destroyed a squadron and the rebel cap ship)

This plan sounds so familiar somehow. Was there a time that he let the heroes escape to lead him back to a rebel base? I feel like there was a Grand Moff who thought this was awfully risky for some reason. Didn't it cost the empire an entire super weapon?

The destruction of the DS also falls to Tarkin who never sent fighters. Vader had to send a squadron out under his own command. Vader's plan also would have worked even if Han had come back, IF Luke did not have the force. Fortunately for the heroes and the story the Force was with him, otherwise he would have been another smeer on there side of that trench along side his buddy Biggs.

Ok here's he deal.

Even if the rebel snub fighters could evade the turbo lasers there were ALOT of them on the surface of the DS. Flying lower helped, flying in the trench worked better in cutting down the number of guns. Also, there might have been at least a few smaller guns on the surface, just not enough to provide that 'tight defense' that Dodonna was talking about. Flying in a straight line towards a point would make hem vulnerable, flying in the trench would alleviate some of that, just not all.

It's been delays for almost 40 years and I'm tired of it. Yeah the 'real' reason for the trench run was Adam Busters, but it is justified within the film.

Also, Ray shielding and particle shielding was used all over the station except for the exhaust port because, hey, exhaust is made of particles, and particle shielding would have kept the port from working at all. So just Ray shielding.

That was one long rabbit trail....so back to Disney Rebels..... Did anyone think Chewbacca appearing in episode III was not necessary?

VandorDM, have I ever said how much I appreciate your approach to reality, it's refreshing.

All of this discussion reminds me of more Vader incompetence, very similar to what happens in Rebels. His competence in Rebels is in question because he didn't cut down Kanan and Ezra quickly and instead let them go on purpose to lead him back to the Rebel fleet. That plan later went awry when the ghost escaped (never mind he actually accomplished his goal and destroyed a squadron and the rebel cap ship)

This plan sounds so familiar somehow. Was there a time that he let the heroes escape to lead him back to a rebel base? I feel like there was a Grand Moff who thought this was awfully risky for some reason. Didn't it cost the empire an entire super weapon?

Um, letting the failed padawan and his untrained force sensitive underling escape led Vader to the Rebel fleet which allowed its destruction as well as led Vader to more Jedi survivors, mainly his old padawan. The only reasons the Ghost escaped was due to the bungling of the rank and file Imprials, not Vader, as well as the skill of the crew of the Ghost. Vader is badass, but not perfect. And certainly far from incompetent.

The destruction of the DS also falls to Tarkin who never sent fighters. Vader had to send a squadron out under his own command. Vader's plan also would have worked even if Han had come back, IF Luke did not have the force. Fortunately for the heroes and the story the Force was with him, otherwise he would have been another smeer on there side of that trench along side his buddy Biggs.

I don't think you get my point. I don't believe he's incompetent, but saying "Rebels" ruined Vader (not you, others) doesn't fly for exactly the reasons you and I listed. I think you just lay them out in a more straightforward, less sarcastic manor.

I just really enjoy sarcasm, even if it doesn't translate well.

That was one long rabbit trail....so back to Disney Rebels..... Did anyone think Chewbacca appearing in episode III was not necessary?

It was less out of place than when he showed up in TCW, but I give them a pass. Who writing in that universe doesn't occasionally want to use OT characters? It was pretty minor really. Just fun for kids.

Lando is probably more egregious, but I find him so deviously fun that I enjoy it

If anything ruined vader, Episode II / III did it the most. Probably more so II.

The movie, not anything rebels did.