The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

If Han had used missiles on the TIEs in the trench in ANH they would have been alerted to his presence that much faster as they would have been alerted to the target lock. Not to mention, Han is playing to the Falcon's strengths, which is certainly not tailing a much smaller and more maneuverable adversary.

Doesn't explain why he doesn't use them during the Death Star escape, the Hoth escape, the battle of Endor prior to the reactor you know, any time he ran into Ties

So, what, you think a smuggler just carries a munitions payload everywhere he goes in a galaxy where those could be immediately detected by passing Imperial patrols, drawing further attention to himself..?

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

If Han had used missiles on the TIEs in the trench in ANH they would have been alerted to his presence that much faster as they would have been alerted to the target lock. Not to mention, Han is playing to the Falcon's strengths, which is certainly not tailing a much smaller and more maneuverable adversary.

Doesn't explain why he doesn't use them during the Death Star escape, the Hoth escape, the battle of Endor prior to the reactor you know, any time he ran into Ties

So, what, you think a smuggler just carries a munitions payload everywhere he goes in a galaxy where those could be immediately detected by passing Imperial patrols, drawing further attention to himself..?

Fair enough. Hoth still works, would have been armed by the rebels. Same with Endor

Okay, different question. We're missiles ever used ship to ship in the original trilogy? I think Lucas envisioned them more like bombs or, well, torpedoes, meant for large, slow targets.

Why is anyone calling Rebels Vader derpy? He crushed every opponent he faced, easily. Kannen and the kid took the inquisitor, they only barely got away from Vader and, and he let them go. Vader used a star fighter to crush a upgraded frigate. He killed how many AWings?

The only thing you could argue is hubris, when he said job well done after killing one ship. However, both the Emperor and Vader can list hubris as ongoing character flaws.

Why is anyone calling Rebels Vader derpy? He crushed every opponent he faced, easily. Kannen and the kid took the inquisitor, they only barely got away from Vader and, and he let them go. Vader used a star fighter to crush a upgraded frigate. He killed how many AWings?

The only thing you could argue is hubris, when he said job well done after killing one ship. However, both the Emperor and Vader can list hubris as ongoing character flaws.

Because the person calling Vader derpy is just trolling this thread because he hates the show to the very core of his being. Just ignore what the troll has to say and you'll be much better off.

Okay, different question. We're missiles ever used ship to ship in the original trilogy? I think Lucas envisioned them more like bombs or, well, torpedoes, meant for large, slow targets.

In the OT, no. Prequels, there's homing and discord missiles that are definitely SSM.

Okay, different question. We're missiles ever used ship to ship in the original trilogy? I think Lucas envisioned them more like bombs or, well, torpedoes, meant for large, slow targets.

In the OT, no. Prequels, there's homing and discord missiles that are definitely SSM.

DisQord?

The A-wings that blow up the EPCOT golf ball on the Executor used missiles. Those definately were not just laser blasts. Does that count as 'ship to ship'?

Heheh.

DisQord.

Okay, different question. We're missiles ever used ship to ship in the original trilogy? I think Lucas envisioned them more like bombs or, well, torpedoes, meant for large, slow targets.

In the OT, no. Prequels, there's homing and discord missiles that are definitely SSM.

DisQord?

The A-wings that blow up the EPCOT golf ball on the Executor used missiles. Those definately were not just laser blasts. Does that count as 'ship to ship'?

Not really. Fighter to fighter is probably more apt.

The A-wings that blow up the EPCOT golf ball on the Executor used missiles. Those definately were not just laser blasts. Does that count as 'ship to ship'?

Not really. Going back to the WWII analog, 'ship to ship' in this case is 'air to air'. Those A-Wings were basically planes torpedoing a battleship.

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

That's always bugged me too. Why did they have to maneuver down the trench at all? Why not approach the exhaust port from above so that your proton torpedo doesn't have to make a 90 degree turn down the chute?

I believe the explanation is that the port is protected by too many turrets, and the trench is the only way to avoid them.

Why wouldn't they be killed when exiting then? Not saying it isn't the explanation, it's just not a very good one

You reasoning is lacking. OK

You avoid the turrets by going down the trench. When you get to the end you have 3 options

1 Turn around and fly back down the trench towards the incoming Y-Wings...

2 Park your ship and get out and watch the rest of the attack because you are too scared to fly out...

3 Fly out and take your chances...

They flew down the trench because it was the safest route in. With no other option, flying out was the only logical choice.

Argh really people they went down the trench because there are less anti fighter defences than on the surface.

Turbo lasers have a long range in the open you have dozens of turrets with los, in the trench you have cover from those and only a few turrets in the actual trench.

Flying out into the open but down the trench is simple if your so inclined.

The trench run reduced manouvering allowing the TC's to lock on. In the open maybe the need to evade and jink incoming fire would have meant the lock took longer or was impossible. Leaving the trench after the torpedoes were away was fine as you could instantly go into evasive mode.

The film doesn't do a great job of saying why but its easy to come up with something plausible.

George created an amazing universe for us, sadly he was brilliant at leaving plot holes and contradictions. I made my peace with that long ago.

Star Wars has never been about realism and while I love the more realistic shades of grey being hinted at in backdrop and motivation for the upcoming trilogy, I'm fine with the simple black and white of the OT too.

The whole parsecs thing actually is interesting, in the original script it was just twibble that was meant to sound impressive to Obi and Luke, but was actually nonsense IN UNIVERSE.

Han may as well have pointed to a huge ass spoiler on the back of the falcon and said "This increases spacedownforce making my hypertwerp spankninja."

And yeah I always liked the explanation that Han was simply blagging the clueless yokels about just how fast the Falcon was.

You reasoning is lacking. OK

You avoid the turrets by going down the trench. When you get to the end you have 3 options

1 Turn around and fly back down the trench towards the incoming Y-Wings...

2 Park your ship and get out and watch the rest of the attack because you are too scared to fly out...

3 Fly out and take your chances...

They flew down the trench because it was the safest route in. With no other option, flying out was the only logical choice.

Also, on your way out, you have a lot more defensive options. Because you can fly away in any direction.

As opposed to on the way in, you'd have to fly directly at the exhaust port. Especially since you needed to get a target lock on the port. That makes predicting your flight path, and thus shooting you down, far easier on the way in than on the way out.

We need to reverse the polarity to the samophlange!

That is my official summary for Star Trek: Voyager.

The whole parsecs thing actually is interesting, in the original script it was just twibble that was meant to sound impressive to Obi and Luke, but was actually nonsense IN UNIVERSE.

Han may as well have pointed to a huge ass spoiler on the back of the falcon and said "This increases spacedownforce making my hypertwerp spankninja."

Yeah, I know that's what he meant, but he used a measurement that is real. It's like saying "meters" and not expecting people to think of distance. I find it amusing myself.

Argh really people they went down the trench because there are less anti fighter defences than on the surface.

Turbo lasers have a long range in the open you have dozens of turrets with los, in the trench you have cover from those and only a few turrets in the actual trench.

That is still not very satisfactory as they stayed outside the trench most of the time except attack runs. Hell, they took shots at turrets during the initial stages of the battle, before ties arrive. Why not, as a group, attack the turrets defending that port and then have clear runs at it. Much shorter runs where you'd get more chances.

Also, once fighters take advantage of your enclosed space it would be smarter to take your chances with the turbolasers as they have a much worse chance of killing you.

Argh really people they went down the trench because there are less anti fighter defences than on the surface.

Turbo lasers have a long range in the open you have dozens of turrets with los, in the trench you have cover from those and only a few turrets in the actual trench.

Sure, but the objective was also down said trench, so why fly in there and get picked off from behind otherwise? They even talk about it in the planning sessions as the objective, and refer to making attack runs at it; "starting my run..." and so on.

Sure, but the objective was also down said trench, so why fly in there and get picked off from behind otherwise?

Because drama... It surely wasn't for any tactical reason.

Luke didn't even turn on his targeting computer until he had been flying down the trench for some time, so they spent a fair amount of time with no real change to maneuver while trying to dodge turbolaser fire from the front and tie fighter fire from the rear with no chance of actually fighting back.

Even if you argue that they needed time to calibrate the TC, they didn't need nearly as much time as they spent in there.

It was very exciting and all, and I still enjoy it for what it is. But it was far from being a tactically sound plan. They should of least had a second set of fighters flying over-watch to drop in on any ties that got behind the bombers.

That is still not very satisfactory as they stayed outside the trench most of the time except attack runs. Hell, they took shots at turrets during the initial stages of the battle, before ties arrive. Why not, as a group, attack the turrets defending that port and then have clear runs at it. Much shorter runs where you'd get more chances.

That assumes that the defenses were uniform along the entire length of the trench.

It's possible that the concentration of anti-fighter defenses was higher around the vulnerable exhaust port. And the plan was to approach the Death Star and enter the trench at a less defended point, then travel along it to their destination.

It's possible that the concentration of anti-fighter defenses was higher around the vulnerable exhaust port.

That doesn't fit with what was said in the movies. The DS's anti-fighter defenses were pretty much non-existent, if they were at all effective they wouldn't of needed to launch Ties to deal with them.

Besides why put extra protection around something that isn't supposed to be vulnerable in the first place?

The above. Turbolasers were too slow to track the fighters.