There are billions of people out there in the 'verse after all.

Yeah, and nobody cares about them.

Which is why I like RPing a lowly TIE Pilot, or a faceless Scout Trooper.

Yeah same. The possibilities are endless, but just as well, being the rank and file is really fun. There's no feeling like being part of a massive unit or leading one.

Oh, sure, it starts out that way. You start out as a fresh faced pilot right out of the academy. But by the time you're finished, you've destroyed an Admiral attempting to secede and his fleet of advanced starship prototypes and become a hero of the Empire. And you were actually legendary ace Maarek Stele the whole time!

And this can happen too!

Hey man. I'm a Colonel heading a Raider Corvette and commanding my own Flight wing now. (Colonel Zechs Darius).

Though I don't really care for this series so far, I will give it credit for this:

Once Ahsoka showed up, it made me want to go back and watch the rest of Clone Wars, which I'd stopped watching halfway through.

And that show gets really good in the later seasons. So I'm really glad I did that.

I think Hondo was my favorite character.

SPOILER ALERT IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED IT

Though why wouldn't you?

The arc where they write Ahsoka out of the show is one of the best of the series.

My favorite ep is when Grievous goes in with the army and demolishes the Night Sisters, though. My God, if he'd realized what Sidious was doing and rebelled, we'd have one hell of a villain around today....

Is the reason you like the episodes where Ahsoka is written out because you do not like her, or the writing for that plot arc was well written?

I liked it because it was well-written, interesting, and showed parts of Coruscant we didn't see often enough. Also, it made an annoying Mary Sue character tolerable. No, I'm still not a fan of Ahsoka, but it says a lot about their writing that they made me genuinely interested in what was going to happen to/with her. Along with the Mandalore arc with Maul and a couple of others, it's one of the best in the entire series.

Sadly, this didn't continue as with Rebels she again feels shoehorned in, and once more has a bland, stilted personality, especially compared to other characters.

Anyone else here think that the Mando chick from that plot arc is Sabines Mom?

Probably. Though that would make Sabine, like, the Princess of Mandalore. Since the Manda chick from that arc was Bo-katan, Dutchess Satine's sister.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Bo-katan took over Mandalore once Maul was gone. And that Sabine is somewhat named after her dead aunt.

I dunno, her character design seems to suggest that she's asian (skin tone, cheekbones, and eye shape) whereas Bo-Katan has pale skin, red hair, and freckles. I have a feeling we'll see a plot arc that deals with Sabine and her past at the academy soon enough.

Speaking of that CW plot arc, we know the Emperor took a simpering whiny Darth Maul alive (apparently surviving being bisected really breaks your mind) so he might jump out of the shadows some day, too.

I can't figure out how to get rid of this weird triple post, but I did manage to kill the quote boxes off. By way of an apology, I'll just post a shot of this sexy thing I found on Deviantart instead.

Yeah.. princess of Mandalore.

what better reason to run away/go into hiding.

What more appropriate to make Space Aladdin really like her...

He's been living as a street rat for a few years. It's his first time with access to a regular shower. It's not like he's been around many females that would give him the time of day. He's a teenager. You stick him around a pretty girl anywhere near his age and he'll go nuts.

Yeah, I think Inside Out got that really right at the end.

Anyone else here think that the Mando chick from that plot arc is Sabines Mom?

Probably. Though that would make Sabine, like, the Princess of Mandalore. Since the Manda chick from that arc was Bo-katan, Dutchess Satine's sister.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Bo-katan took over Mandalore once Maul was gone. And that Sabine is somewhat named after her dead aunt.

I dunno, her character design seems to suggest that she's asian (skin tone, cheekbones, and eye shape) whereas Bo-Katan has pale skin, red hair, and freckles. I have a feeling we'll see a plot arc that deals with Sabine and her past at the academy soon enough.

Speaking of that CW plot arc, we know the Emperor took a simpering whiny Darth Maul alive (apparently surviving being bisected really breaks your mind) so he might jump out of the shadows some day,

too.

It seem that Star Wars feels it needs to tie up loose ends that are not loose at all. This attitude all started with the prequels.

Did Chewbacca need to even be part of the Wookiee army during the battle of Kashyyyk? He was even a General and a good friend of Yoda.....really? IT WAS NOT NECESSARY!

Anyone else here think that the Mando chick from that plot arc is Sabines Mom?

Probably. Though that would make Sabine, like, the Princess of Mandalore. Since the Manda chick from that arc was Bo-katan, Dutchess Satine's sister.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Bo-katan took over Mandalore once Maul was gone. And that Sabine is somewhat named after her dead aunt.

I dunno, her character design seems to suggest that she's asian (skin tone, cheekbones, and eye shape) whereas Bo-Katan has pale skin, red hair, and freckles. I have a feeling we'll see a plot arc that deals with Sabine and her past at the academy soon enough.

Speaking of that CW plot arc, we know the Emperor took a simpering whiny Darth Maul alive (apparently surviving being bisected really breaks your mind) so he might jump out of the shadows some day,

too.

I thought the Mech-Maul a terrible arc and I hope Rebels do not open that back up. As for Sabine being related to Mandolorian royalty I hope that is not the case as well.

It seem that Star Wars feels it needs to tie up loose ends that are not loose at all. This attitude all started with the prequels.

Did Chewbacca need to even be part of the Wookiee army during the battle of Kashyyyk? He was even a General and a good friend of Yoda.....really? IT WAS NOT NECESSARY!

I agree, I hate the mech-Maul taking of Mandalore arc, which why I want Rebels to give the Mandalorian's the proper story arc they deserve. Sabine being related to mando royalty is just an added bonus, even if it isn't necessary.

I agree, I hate the mech-Maul taking of Mandalore arc

I liked that arc. Maul was a lot more interesting in it than he was in the previous arcs he showed up in. It left the Death Watch in charge of Mandalore. And it had Sidious actually being a badass.

Plus, they got rid of Mauls stupid bird legs and just gave him normal cyberlegs.

If it makes any diffrence it says in a book that the IMP NAVAL Pilots have lost their edge because of lack of fighting. Same is more than likely true for Army and Stormy forces. If you want a refrence I will send it to you in a PM. As it is though I dont enjoy watching these Squadrons, Wings, Battalions from these stories, more so because I / we know there more elite / ready IMP forces out their like, Alpha Squadron, 181st, 128th, Avenger Squadron, 501st, and everyone who is part of Death Squadron & DS2.

So if a member of isis walked up to a texas reservist who'd never seen combat and just tossed him a live grenade said reservist would just stand there with a dumb look on his face?

See i think he'd A) throw it as far away as possible 2) drop it and run like hell or throw it back at the terrorist.

You don't need to be a hardened veteran to avoid the stupid things these stormtroopers do.

Maybe they wanted to die...? I would prefer that explanation over them being so stupid that they froze up at the sight of a grenade. Well ether way I guess the Stormys can't be justified, except if we just say that unit was bad. The 37th was pretty bad to until Fel showed up.

Yeah pretty sure Vader had an actual target lock when he started firing on Luke in the trench. "I have you now" and all. And the graphics showing the target lock.

But you might have a case that Ben was interfering with Vader's shooting at least when he was targeting Luke.

At any rate being rammed by his own wingman does not make either Vader or his wingman look very good. Up to that point, sure they were badass as all get out, but one tramp freighter got the best of them. Sounds like 'a lack of vision' to focus only on the trench bombers.

It took a long time before he had a lock-on Luke, and it appears it was a false lock or the signal was interrupted. I wouldn't down play the Falcon, it was customized by a guy that was a IMP ace.

And Black Knight Leader is thrown into the Pit of Ignoringness.

I am pretty tired of reading your continuous Troll-droppings.

Cheers.

So if people don't enjoy all the SW products they are a troll? Gotcha

The reason Luke didn't die in the DS trench run was because his craft put out enough ecm signals to keep Vader from getting a true electronic lock-on with his cannons. The force was also on his side, with Ben very likely, through the force, interfering with Vaders targeting computer and possible force attunement. He "could" have tried and fire the cannon without computer assetaints but then he still has the issue with ECM countermeasures interfering with the Beam.

DS-61-2 wasn't a "Bone Head" he reacted to being attacked from behind, he was just in a bad situation since his enemy had him in his sights and was above him. He had very few places too go.

ECM? Hahahahahhaahhahahahah

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Ok smart guy, why wouldn't a ship named the "Ghost" not have those ECMs, not to mention containing two force users, one an actual trained Jedi. I'm also curious why so many other rebel pilots didn't bother using their ECMs, presumably they have actual experience flying x-wings. This is of course leaving aside that they never mention ECMs, are flying in essentially a straight line, and Vader is one of the best pilots in the galaxy. I'm sure he gets routinely stumped by ECMs in ships that aren't maneuvering.

Seriously. ECMs. So hilarious. The ghost clearly has tractor beams that can push enemy blasters off target then if we're just pulling nonsense out of our backsides.

And I'm sure an ace pilot while flying in formation would panic under fire and not just pull up. Like all of those rebel pilots that were in that EXACT situation and managed to not just not panic, but maneuvered around in the trench until they also got shot in the back with ease by Vader. Again, even with their magic ECMs preventing Vader from getting a lock presumably.

Dear crap, ECMs. Man I needed that laugh. Thanks

Really, I think what this illustrates so well is that when you want to love something you excuse it's flaws or make up reasons (magic ECMs) but when you want to hate something it's easy to rip it apart and give it zero leeway whatsoever.

Ok "perniciousducks" Whats your point about the Ghost having ECM as well? You are mistaking me for someone that complained about Vader missing the Ghost when I never mentioned that as a problem.

Who says none of the Rebel pilots used their ecm, they did in every movie! Every time you say the IMPs targeting computer going allover the place and not locking on to the Rebs fighters was because of the Rebs ECM, every time you saw the IMPs, or Rebs, miss their targets was because of ECM. If no one used ECM at all they would have perfect or near perfect accuracy in combat. Oh yeah check out the movie again, they don't all fly in a perfect straight line. Even IF they don't use the computer linked targeting system the ECM can mess with the beam.

The Rebel Pilots in the trench that fled were not in the same situation as the IMPs that were surprised attacked in the trench, for one the Rebels didn't have a ship behind and over them with a 360 firing arc, pulling up wouldn't have helped, frankly Vader is lucky to be alive after the battle of Yavin, if he hadnt bounded out he would be dead.

Actually what your post shows is that you haven't seen any of the SW tech books. Thank you for your false accusations though.

Any jamming in the trench would have been from the Death Star, not the snub fighters. Dunno if the empire is dumb enough to jam their own frequencies as well as the Rebels.

No Reb fighters have real powerful composite tactical jamers. They were good enough that not only did the IMPs miss a couple times because of false lock-ons or just desperate firing, but Vader and his pilots were constantly having to adjust their targeting computers. If you want a reference for ships with ECM I will send it to you in a pm.

I'm not going to bother quoting that whole block.

That's all post movie rationalization for Lucas wanting it to feel like WW2 aerial combat. Just like how many fans (and I'm including EU authors) that rationalize the under 12 parsec Kessel run with black holes. We all know Lucas meant that as time, even though parsecs is distance. He made a dumb mistake. It happens.

The tie pilot in no way knew the shot was from above or that the falcon had a turret, not that it matters in his predicament. There is no world where a turret vs a normal front arc shot makes crashing into your wingman a better option than escaping in what he knows is the only safe direction.

Finally, the rebels only knew those fighters were there after a y-wing got shot in the backside by surprise. They didn't freak out and others willingly made the run afterwards.

On second thought, why did they even run the trench? It doesn't make sense. They could enter much further along and pull the same shot. We know it's open the whole way and that they're too fast for turbolasers. It's a pretty dumb scenario.

I can do this all day. I love the movies, but holding them up like they're logically sound while all of these unrealistic things happen in rebels is dumb. Don't like the writing? Fine. Characters are boring or flat? Cool. This just wouldn't happen this way? No kidding, it's called Star Wars.

I'm not going to bother quoting that whole block.

That's all post movie rationalization for Lucas wanting it to feel like WW2 aerial combat. Just like how many fans (and I'm including EU authors) that rationalize the under 12 parsec Kessel run with black holes. We all know Lucas meant that as time, even though parsecs is distance. He made a dumb mistake. It happens.

The tie pilot in no way knew the shot was from above or that the falcon had a turret, not that it matters in his predicament. There is no world where a turret vs a normal front arc shot makes crashing into your wingman a better option than escaping in what he knows is the only safe direction.

Finally, the rebels only knew those fighters were there after a y-wing got shot in the backside by surprise. They didn't freak out and others willingly made the run afterwards.

On second thought, why did they even run the trench? It doesn't make sense. They could enter much further along and pull the same shot. We know it's open the whole way and that they're too fast for turbolasers. It's a pretty dumb scenario.

I can do this all day. I love the movies, but holding them up like they're logically sound while all of these unrealistic things happen in rebels is dumb. Don't like the writing? Fine. Characters are boring or flat? Cool. This just wouldn't happen this way? No kidding, it's called Star Wars.

Lucas used fotage spliced from many WW2 dog fighting movies to create how he wanted scenes in this movie to play out, that was as close too animatic as they had back then. This however doesn't suddlen mean that the fighters in the movie are only using methods used by WW2 era fighters for Dogfighting, they show a lot of the stuff I mentioned, that you labeled as EU written materiel, in the movie itself.

Actually the TIE Pilot would have known it was from above and behind since he looked up to see where the attack came from that killed DS-61-3. What DS-61-2 wasn't stupid, what happened more thank likely was that he panicked after seeing the enemy above him, his instincts had him juke in a narrow confined space. Flying upwards would not have saved him from the Falcon because of the weapon systems it has, besides turreted weapons it has missiles, his options for evasion were very poor since he couldn't really go into any direction without hitting anything.

The Gold squadron pilots knew the IMPs were behind them before anyone in their squadron that was doing the trench run was shot down. Gold Leader did freakout after Gold 2 was destroyed, after Gold Leader was killed the new Gold Leader abandoned the trench run but was killed by Vader. Oh an because of the ECM the Y-Wings were putting out it took Vader 5 seconds to get a true electronic lock-on on Gold 2 and around the same amount of time for the other Y-Wings.

The Rebels are not to fast for Turbo Lasers nor the SFS anti-fighter Laser batteries, a fair amount of them were taken down by those weapons.

What I don't appreciate is LFL / Disney making Vader incompetent, he wasn't like this in any older material, and the Empire wasn't this way ether, the only way to fix damage done by this series is too point out from the books that these guys have lost their edge, and its probably just the units involved in the stories since the elite units are not like what we have seen in the show. Derp Vader can't be fixed though. I wish Vader vs Batman was canon because that could fix the damage done here by this show but since its not canon to the primary SW universe it doesn't help.

Vader wasn't incompetent in any way. Stop looking for reasons to complain and Get out of my thread.

The falcon, never once, fired a single missile in the movies. Never mind that a tie fighter exploded and a moment later the other tried to escape and did it poorly. When, in that time, do you propose he had time to discover exactly what type of ship fired upon it, assessed it's weapon capabilities and then decided that escaping in the only actual direction it could go was not a viable option, but instead decided to crash into his squad leader instead?

You can love all of the EU stuff you want, but Lucas didn't imagine most of that. He wanted a WW2 dogfight in space and Ralph McQuarrie drew him awesome ships to replace those WW2 fighters. The reason you have cheesy digital targeting indicators with xwings bouncing around in them before getting lock was because that how WW2 did targeting through the sights. Especially in movies. Not because of some ECM system Lucas thought of. If you want actual space combat look at something like B5 or the new BSG. It's actually imagined as SciFi space combat And how it might actually work (they have issues as well, but much fewer), not fantasy with a SciFi veneer. What has happened since The release of those movies and explosion of fandom is a ton of very smart, creative people filled in the massive gaps in the Star Wars universe with plausible details.

The turbolasers killed one fat pilot. One. Do not quote EU at me either, Lucas showed plenty of other rebels murdered by ties, but only Porkins (seriously Lucas, you named the fat one Porkins?!) died to turbolasers.

Vader was incompetent in Empire. During the fight with Luke he did the classic look away during the trap thing with the carbonite that let Luke escape. Then after he cuts off his hand he just lets him fall to his death presumably. He's a force user who was just picking up and throwing much heavier objects all over the place, but he couldn't grab Luke? Seriously? How dumb. Then there is everything Lucas did to Anakin in the prequels personally. The new Disney LFL has done more to repair that image in the last year than anything Lucas has done in the last 2 decades.

Again, I love these movies, LOVE them, but I accept their flaws because I understand what he was going for and that was a fantasy serial with space wizards.

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

On second thought, why did they even run the trench? It doesn't make sense. They could enter much further along and pull the same shot. We know it's open the whole way and that they're too fast for turbolasers. It's a pretty dumb scenario.

That's always bugged me too. Why did they have to maneuver down the trench at all? Why not approach the exhaust port from above so that your proton torpedo doesn't have to make a 90 degree turn down the chute? The rational I have come up with is that the was so difficult, required such complex guidance instructions for the proton torpedo, that the targeting computers required significant time and reference points in order to program the torpedo's intended flight path. When the pilots were looking through their viewfinders, it wasn't just a countdown until they were supposed to pull the trigger, the computer was analyzing the fighter's flight path and comparing it to the technical data from the DS plans to get a hyper accurate fix on the fighters position and course so that it could program the torpedo to correctly fly down the exhaust port and not hit anything on the way down. If they had entered the trench close to the port, the computer would not have been able to collect enough data to program the torpedo's guidance system accurately enough.

That's my in universe rationale for why the whole sequence looks like a WW2 bombing run.

That's always bugged me too. Why did they have to maneuver down the trench at all? Why not approach the exhaust port from above so that your proton torpedo doesn't have to make a 90 degree turn down the chute?

I believe the explanation is that the port is protected by too many turrets, and the trench is the only way to avoid them.

That's always bugged me too. Why did they have to maneuver down the trench at all? Why not approach the exhaust port from above so that your proton torpedo doesn't have to make a 90 degree turn down the chute?

I believe the explanation is that the port is protected by too many turrets, and the trench is the only way to avoid them.

Why wouldn't they be killed when exiting then? Not saying it isn't the explanation, it's just not a very good one

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

If Han had used missiles on the TIEs in the trench in ANH they would have been alerted to his presence that much faster as they would have been alerted to the target lock. Not to mention, Han is playing to the Falcon's strengths, which is certainly not tailing a much smaller and more maneuverable adversary.

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

If Han had used missiles on the TIEs in the trench in ANH they would have been alerted to his presence that much faster as they would have been alerted to the target lock. Not to mention, Han is playing to the Falcon's strengths, which is certainly not tailing a much smaller and more maneuverable adversary.

Doesn't explain why he doesn't use them during the Death Star escape, the Hoth escape, the battle of Endor prior to the reactor you know, any time he ran into Ties

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

If Han had used missiles on the TIEs in the trench in ANH they would have been alerted to his presence that much faster as they would have been alerted to the target lock. Not to mention, Han is playing to the Falcon's strengths, which is certainly not tailing a much smaller and more maneuverable adversary.

Doesn't explain why he doesn't use them during the Death Star escape, the Hoth escape, the battle of Endor prior to the reactor you know, any time he ran into Ties

Effing troll, you got me. Han wasn't flying during the Death Star escape, he was RUNNING during the Hoth escape, and he wasn't flying at Endor. Go away.

The Falcon did fire missiles actually, at The Death Star's reactor.

Always thought those were just blaster fire. /shrug

Doesn't really matter, doesn't effect my point other than it brings up Hans incompetence for not using them on Ties before that point.

If Han had used missiles on the TIEs in the trench in ANH they would have been alerted to his presence that much faster as they would have been alerted to the target lock. Not to mention, Han is playing to the Falcon's strengths, which is certainly not tailing a much smaller and more maneuverable adversary.

Doesn't explain why he doesn't use them during the Death Star escape, the Hoth escape, the battle of Endor prior to the reactor you know, any time he ran into Ties

Missiles and torps are crazy-expensive? I mean, he has a pretty major bounty on his head until Endor.