Hmm, I think when it comes to UC and Steward, you have to remember that these were staples of the Core Set for a good reason. Think back to when you first had a Core Set, which had a mix of great cards, good cards, ok cards, and some terrible ones. Remember how difficult the Core Set can be with just Core Set cards (and without all the knowledge and experience you have now). Steward and UC were essential tools against that difficulty and made perfect sense at the time. So I don't think there was any "mistake" made with those cards (although we can argue about leaving enough design spaces for yourself later on). Of course, now with a bigger card pool, then all those issues arise that you guys are talking about.

Basically, the big split among players seems to be between those who have the philosophy that players should just limit themselves and those who want those limitations actually built into the cards through errata. I'm somewhere in the middle. I would be fine if they errata'd Unexpected Courage to "limit 1 per deck". That's how many copies are in the Core anyway, and that's my favorite change. Making it unique isn't thematic, and limit 1 per hero fixes the issue somewhat, but it's still better than other readying in Spirit. Limit 1 per deck means you can't rely on it and will have to deck build specifically to try to get it, which makes it more interesting, while making something like Steed of the Mark better, as that card will be way more consistent in comparison. I personally think Steward, on the other hand, is fine as it is. At the end of the day, though, perhaps less errata is better, and players can limit themselves. As I said, I'm still a bit undecided on the issue.

I don't think that Fast Hitch has anything to do with UC. Fast Hitch gives an extra action to the weakest type of heroes in the game, costing more would have simply killed it.

I don't think that Fast Hitch has anything to do with UC. Fast Hitch gives an extra action to the weakest type of heroes in the game, costing more would have simply killed it.

That could be the case, it might be that even if UC cost more Fast Hitch would still need to be only cost 1, because getting two actions out of hobbits is less valuable. I don't agree though, I think it could have been 2 (if UC wasn't just better).

2 would make it simply not worth it. Look at the most hobbit heroes.

A faq only purpose in a card game like this is for competition

not really. You need coherence among the community for a community to form. The rules is what binds us all together and creates discussion points and deck sharing. While yes, without competition the FAQ isn't as important.. but errats and tweaks to the game design are still needed for the life of the game and the ability for the community to work together. While many of us use custom rules and eve ncustom cards, if you look around the "community" is all about office rule chat and deck design. So I am thinking it is still pretty important.

2 would make it simply not worth it. Look at the most hobbit heroes.

Fast hitch is an example (because it's the same card with a restriction). However you're missing the bigger picture here.

Unexpected Courage costs 2, targets any hero.

Fast Hitch costs 1, targets any hobbit.

So what's the design space left for my targets any elf card? If it costs 1 it's just better than Fast hitch because as you rightly say, Elven heroes are better than hobbit heroes. If it costs 2, it's just worse than Unexpected Courage (without the restriction).

The design space for pitching cards between the two is non-existent, and it isn't because Fast Hitch should have been cost 0. It's because Unexpected Courage should have been more than cost 2.

Edit: I might even go so far as to say, Unexpected Courage should never have existed.

(snip)

Making it restricted also is a good fix, as the decision point of what to put it on becomes sharper, also it limits its use. You can not untap 4 times to block val.5.. .but you can block twice to block val.5. This is a pretty good limiter on it.

I think my fav is making it unique. Limit one per deck is not cool. I know we have Word of Command very easy to play now, but still. Drawing singletons is anti-deck design as you can not count on it. Unique dose the exact same thing (apart form multiplayer) and you can also play it as a singleton if you like without any loss of functionality. So Singleton and Unique is practically the same change.

2 would make it simply not worth it. Look at the most hobbit heroes.

Fast hitch is an example (because it's the same card with a restriction). However you're missing the bigger picture here.

Unexpected Courage costs 2, targets any hero.

Fast Hitch costs 1, targets any hobbit.

So what's the design space left for my targets any elf card? If it costs 1 it's just better than Fast hitch because as you rightly say, Elven heroes are better than hobbit heroes. If it costs 2, it's just worse than Unexpected Courage (without the restriction).

The design space for pitching cards between the two is non-existent, and it isn't because Fast Hitch should have been cost 0. It's because Unexpected Courage should have been more than cost 2.

Edit: I might even go so far as to say, Unexpected Courage should never have existed.

Design space is still a lot. Example: An elf attachment that readies them and costs 2. Would totally use. Wanna know why? Because its from leadershit.

Design space is still a lot. Example: An elf attachment that readies them and costs 2. Would totally use. Wanna know why? Because its from leadershit.

That's a really narrow design space you're talking about though. We don't just want Spheres to become interchangeable because we haven't got any room for anything else. If the spheres start to bleed into each other too much they become meaningless and design suffers.

We could make Unexpected Leadership (Cost 3 because of the leadership tax, otherwise identical to unexpected courage) or Unexpected Ready Elves (the 2 cost version, elf only, but it's paying the leadership tax...) but once you get to that point you're really scrapping the barrel.

I mean really we're looking for new designs, "ready two elves in play", or new triggers "if the staging area contains more enemies than you have allies then ready exhaust this card to ready the hero."

But it's difficult to do that in a very narrow space - all the effects start to blend together. Exactly like the counterexample you've given that I have expanded upon.

I agree that it limits the design posibiities, but I think Caleb and Matt still have plenty to work with and they are pretty good at this. Look at Lembas...

Another one of these unnecessary long-ass posts.

Design space is limitless even now, with existance of UC, all it needs is a clever mind and the desire to use it. I could give you 10 viable readying attachments, of any combination of spheres, that would compete with UC, if I'd wanted to. All UC limits, honestly, is mindless implementation of spirit readying attachments, like Steed of the Mark was, that's all. And to finish my post, a little funny fact for you: readying effects are actually leadershit's thingy, not spirit's.

Another one of these unnecessary long-ass posts.

Design space is limitless even now, with existance of UC, all it needs is a clever mind and the desire to use it. I could give you 10 viable readying attachments, of any combination of spheres, that would compete with UC, if I'd wanted to. All UC limits, honestly, is mindless implementation of spirit readying attachments, like Steed of the Mark was, that's all. And to finish my post, a little funny fact for you: readying effects are actually leadershit's thingy, not spirit's.

How about this?

The image will probably be broken, so:

Sacrificial Leader (unique)

1 Cost Leadership Attachment

Skill (trait)

Attach to a Leadership hero.

Action: Exhaust Sacrificial Leader and attached hero to ready 2 other characters.

See? If you put your mind to it you can come up with plenty of unique readying abilities. If I can come up with this, imagine what the guys who are getting paid can think of.

Fast hitch exist and it didn't mess with anything. The color pie is a lot more fluid in Lotr.

Readying stuff from Leadershit:

Aragorn

Elrohir

Sam Gamgee

Prince Imrahil

Forlong

Orthanc Guard

Cram

Heir of Mardil

Common Cause

Ever Vigilant

Grim Resolve

Lure of Moria

Strength of Arms

Swift and Silent

Total: 14

Now, readying stuff from Spirit:

Idraen

Eomund

Westfold Horse-breaker

Ever My Heart Rises

Miruvor

Spare Hood and Cloak

Steed of the Mark

Unexpected Courage

Renewed Friendship

Total: 9

Leadershit currently possesses almost as twice readying effects as Spirit does. So, I stand resolute - readying is definetely native Leadershit thingy.

I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm saying that both spheres are readying spheres. If you have 9 different readying effects in your sphere, it certainly isn't unknown territory. They each specialize in readying in different ways. Spirit has several semi-universal repeatable readying attachment, while Leadership specializes in characters having built in readying and having one-time readying effects, like Cram and events. Sadly, if we need to ready a hero without a built in readying effect, we tend to look to Spirit because they have more decent repeatable options. This gives Spirit the illusion of being the primary readying sphere.

How about this?

The image will probably be broken, so:

Sacrificial Leader (unique)

1 Cost Leadership Attachment

Skill (trait)

Attach to a Leadership hero.

Action: Exhaust Sacrificial Leader and attached hero to ready 2 other characters.

See? If you put your mind to it you can come up with plenty of unique readying abilities. If I can come up with this, imagine what the guys who are getting paid can think of.

I feel like you are getting hung up on specifics here. I didn't claim it was impossible to create new and interesting effects even given the constraints that we have. I claimed that the scope for the design is a lot narrower than it should be, because of mistakes made in the early card designs (in the core set).

This game is certainly not alone in having over and under-powered cards in the core design that are improved on over time.

Nor do I claim that we have reached the point, now, where we can't make any more good ready effects with what's available. We can.

But when we have double the card pool we have now (which realistically would only be beginning to fill out all the minor traits like Beorning). Will you still be able too come up with good ready effects then? Even Trololo claiming 10 designs would still not have enough to double the card pool. (We have more than 10 ready effects now).

My argument is that it's harder to fix the issue the more cards you make. FetaCheese rightly said that the encounter decks are designed with the player cards in mind. New player cards are also designed based on what already exists.

We should make the change sooner (and so have better cards designed from now) rather than when we have no choice - otherwise we'll end up with a second edition.

You pick on this poor UC too much. If anything is ought to be fixed - it's total mistakes of the core set like Power in Earth and Favor of the Lady.

Favor of the Lady? It's the same like Dúnedain Quest only that you can't change the owner of this attachment but thats negletable. The card was good in core set days and maybe through Mirkwood cycle but since then you can get willpower easier and cheaper. I don't mind this attachment it's ok but wouldn't use it anymore.

Power in the earth was **** from the get go but I don't know would you use it if it grants a location -2 or even -3 threat? I mean sure you can get location looked in 3-4 player games but normally that should tell you to redesign your decks to clear out locations more efficient. I doubt that I would use this card if it grants -2 threat and with -3 i'm sure people would say it's op.

Dunedain Quest is of the leadershit. Spirit cannot farm resources as easily as leadershit does.

And what if that location has some nasty travel/explore effect? What that tells you? There are less blunt ways of redesigning the card than just adding threat reduction.

The problem is, overall, is that core set is an abomination. Such high curve of cards ranging from utterly useless to auto-include to this day + not 3 copies of each player card.

Dunedain Quest is of the leadershit. Spirit cannot farm resources as easily as leadershit does.

And what if that location has some nasty travel/explore effect? What that tells you? There are less blunt ways of redesigning the card than just adding threat reduction.

The problem is, overall, is that core set is an abomination. Such high curve of cards ranging from utterly useless to auto-include to this day + not 3 copies of each player card.

I think abomination might be too strong a word, but I agree.

Overall the core set is all over the place, especially compared to the later designs. This another reason I hope to get a core set 2nd edition at some point (that's designed to work with the cards from the rest of the game).

I forget who mentioned it but I think the best way to deal with Unexpected Courage is to limit it to hero's with a threat of 9 or less. This will make it not quite as powerful while still having a smattering of good heroes who could use it.

Maybe is not bad idea but bring additional headech. I think limit one per hero is ok.

Of all the UC errata suggestions I like the once per hero option best.

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~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no nerf ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

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Haters gonna hate. UC for life.