Sadly, I have to agree with the pessimistic side here. The only reason I'd truly field a Defender is to use the cannon slot with a small base ship. A naked defender (even a named one) doesn't justify its cost. IMO, FFG vastly overrated the White 4K, and made the ship pay too much for it (dial, actions, cost).

Other pilots in the game also have the ability to take actions before or after a K-turn, or directly ignore/shed the stress from it and they don't pay such high prices for that ability.

When you put it that way Keyan Farlander with AS is 32 points and can K turn all game long without losing an action.

It's not a bad ship, it's just not as efficient for equivalent points in Phantoms.

So, what you are saying is that it's not that the Tie Defender is over-costed, but the Tie Phantom is under costed. With that I can agree.

Just because the two ships came out at the same time and they are about the same points means that they need to be compared constantly. Just because the Phantom might be "meta changing" doesn't mean the Tie Defender is a bad ship. I disagree that the ship is over-costed or the only reason to take one is due to HLC.

I disagree that the ship is over-costed or the only reason to take one is due to HLC.

There have been many many many forum posts on this subject in the past. Lets not get into if the Tie Defender in general is overcosted or not.

I have to say that I feel inspired by Jobu. I have never dared bring a Tie Defender to a local tournament let alone win with it!

I disagree that the ship is over-costed or the only reason to take one is due to HLC.

There have been many many many forum posts on this subject in the past. Lets not get into if the Tie Defender in general is overcosted or not.

I have to disagree with you Darth.

1. I won a tourney with Rexler in a list with no Phantoms in the list. (anecdotal and not great evidence, but still)

...

I have to say that I feel inspired by Jobu. I have never dared bring a Tie Defender to a local tournament let alone win with it!

Darth Ruin brought a Defender to the Regionals and got into top 4 with it

o.O ?

He did!? I must have missed that! Which one was it? Did it have an HLC?

Do you know what list he had at Regionals? I'm a huge defender fan, and always looking at new ways to package it.

I won our recent local event with Brath. TIE Defender is good...some people are just stuck on Phantoms as the be all and end all. I knocked down the one I faced, one-shotted it with Brath and good tactics. Haven't tried it with the HLC, don't see the need to, but may try that soon.

Sadly, I have to agree with the pessimistic side here. The only reason I'd truly field a Defender is to use the cannon slot with a small base ship. A naked defender (even a named one) doesn't justify its cost. IMO, FFG vastly overrated the White 4K, and made the ship pay too much for it (dial, actions, cost).

Other pilots in the game also have the ability to take actions before or after a K-turn, or directly ignore/shed the stress from it and they don't pay such high prices for that ability.

When you put it that way Keyan Farlander with AS is 32 points and can K turn all game long without losing an action.

Only if he has a shot.

Next tourney I'm bringing a defender. Not just because its cool, but its the best list I've seen. =)

Woohooo. Time to find out if I'm a scrub or not.

Next tourney I'm bringing a defender. Not just because its cool, but its the best list I've seen. =)

Woohooo. Time to find out if I'm a scrub or not.

I have a tourney coming up and really want to bring a defender, so I'd be keen to know what your list is.

Or if anyone has some good ideas??????

I wish there were events close to me I could easily attend I'd love to try a few defender lists.

My 'theory' list so far is

Rex w/HLC & VI 45

Fet w/Nav & VI 43

AP 12

Thoughts?

Suggestions?

I'm almost tempted to run two Delta's and Rex....

Just coz I love me Defenders...

That and I want to run something a bit different from what I'm expecting to see

Lots of Falcon's, B-wings and Phantoms

This thread has been hijacked, it is now:

Run a Defender (with or without HLC) at a local tourney, and tell us about it!

Including stuff like:

List you played

Lists you played against

How you did, etc.

Anything you did or didn't like

Whether you did or didnt need HLC

Whether or not a Phantom woulda been better

Just some more thoughts on the Defender:

I LOVE the HLC on Vessery. I prefer the Ion Cannon on the other Defenders, though. Makes it easier to set up kill shots. I don't like HLC on Rexler, 'cause HLC without a target lock is kind of a waste. With Vessery, he'll be consistently throwing 3-4 hits every shot.

I'll probably use the HLC on Vessery forever unless the Mangler Cannon does what I think it does.

But for most uses of Defenders I prefer the Ion Cannon 'cause it makes it so easy to set up a K-Turn and then unload into a ship's rear.

As for Defender vs Phantom, Phantoms get all the love right now but Phantoms can only get worse. As people learn how to fly against Phantoms, their performance will suffer. (If you haven't read any of Doug Kinney's anti-Phantom posts over on TC you really should) But at the end of the day, the Defender is STILL the toughest small-based ship in the game whether you're used to flying against it or not.

I do think they'll get a lot more play eventually and not just the named pilots. (Deltas are actually really, really good)

Really? I think the HLC is made for Rex. There's no better feeling than rolling a hit and 3 crits, flipping the crits to hits then spending a focus to drop 4 crits on your opponent. Every time I've fielded Rex it works wonderfully for me. I don't tend to fly Defenders too often because of the cost. If they were 3 points less I'd fly one every game if I could.

Really? I think the HLC is made for Rex. There's no better feeling than rolling a hit and 3 crits, flipping the crits to hits then spending a focus to drop 4 crits on your opponent. Every time I've fielded Rex it works wonderfully for me. I don't tend to fly Defenders too often because of the cost. If they were 3 points less I'd fly one every game if I could.

The problem is that the chances of that happening is really, really small. Sure if it happens it's game-changing, but that doesn't happen that often.

Rexler can crit with an ION cannon. He's the only one who can do that. Also, there's a higher chance of not needing a focus with an ION cannon. You don't need to max hits as much with it, you just need to get more hits than your opponent can possibly get defense. Also, an IONed ship is easier for Rexler to get around and helps to mitigate Rexler's one big problem.

You see, Rexler has a relatively high PS so will be shooting before a lot of ships. If he uses his ability, he'll be spending his focus - which is the only defense he really has. That leaves him very vulnerable to return fire. If he IONS a ship and gets behind him he doesn't need to worry about spending that focus for defense.

As an aside, my preferred Rexler build is Outmaneuver and ION cannon. Makes those follow-up shots on IONed ships REALLY hurt. Also, it's WAY cheaper than HLC & Predator.

just to clarify...right now you can only get HLC from slave 1 and the shuttle?

I tried Rex twice last night, and I couldn't get a good window for his ability at all. Sure, that is a small sample size, but I think I'm back to the generics with HLCs, personally. It is a small sample size, and my dice were colder then a snubbed cat, but the games were against Falcon and two blues, and 4 Xs, so even with that I ought to have found a window.

I don't think he is horrifically over priced, but I haven't found a list with him and an HLC I like, and I just don't feel he works well without one.

I will say this, the pilot skill was rather nice when it came to K-Turning. Sure, getting block out of one hurts a lot less on a Defender anyway, but man, it was nice having that insight.

I really wish the Defender had a sensor slot. Brath would giggle gleefully with an Autocorrector, and it'd be nice to barrel roll before moves sometimes.

Sunday i am going to be in a local event and unless something drasticly changes this is the current build im running

I use rex with HLC often and take a mini swarm with him, the swarm is there to block and provide tempting targets, after all if you have a tie at range one and a defender at three it's tempting to go for the fighter.

Rex often does not kill but he gets three hits a turn usually thanks to predator even if his ability does not kick in he'll strip shields and a few hull making them easy prey for the ties, by the time rex is close enough to lose the bonus agility I'll of killed the big gun and have messed up the rest.

I've had rex and vess with VI take on four undamaged rebel named pilots with lower ps xxbz, vess lost one shield, xxb died over three turns and we called it when the z-95 was on one hull with both defenders behind it, without the HLC I doubt I'd of pulled it off.

Okay, fine, I'll give Rex another try. I'll toss together a couple of lists with him and an HLC and see if I can get any traction.

just to clarify...right now you can only get HLC from slave 1 and the shuttle?

Yup. It will also come with the YT-2400.

Rexler, i think if properly supported, is going to be a great Counter to Decimators.

Give him a HLC, FCS and say a Shuttle with Fleet Officer nearby and watch those big fella's cry.

Rexler, i think if properly supported, is going to be a great Counter to Decimators.

Give him a HLC, FCS and say a Shuttle with Fleet Officer nearby and watch those big fella's cry.

As he has been brilliant in Epic, I imagine this will be true.