Actually, it's a flat 20/30 rule. the flip side is you only get 1 class skill from your new spec. Not all of them.

Suggestion for running an all-FU campaign (or at least starting one):

For the F&D campaign I'm running for the FLGS I work at, I gave the group a choice of three "origins". Since how they discovered the Force and gained their training is an important part of their story, you can use that to unite them and give an overall theme/flavor for the campaign. Each one also corresponds to a group resource put forth by the F&D book.

-Imperial Escapees

Under the shadow of the Empire, no Force-sensitive is safe. When your powers were discovered, Imperial agents appeared soon after, and you were captured. Now, you have all been shackled aboard an Imperial prison transport, and those of you that aren't made tools of the Empire will be killed. But perhaps, if you all work together, you might be able to escape with your lives...

If the PCs are successful, they'll make off with a ship and likely go into hiding. From here, it becomes an "X-Men meets The Fugitive" story, as they learn their powers and evade the Imperial forces after them. Before the session starts, ask the PCs to tell you how they caught the attention of the Empire.

-Ruins of the Past

You all had your own reasons for being in the ruins that day, but all of you were compelled to go, as if you were called there by something. Maybe something here will shed light on your...gifts, even as it ties your destiny to others searching for the same thing...

By the end of the session, they'll have their holocron, which also serves a a treasure map, leading the group from ruin to ruin in search of ancient secrets. Ask each PC what they're doing in the ruins, and what they've been using their powers for until now.

-The Voice of the Master

Discovering powers you may not fully understand, let alone control, can spell disaster for those that possess them, and for those around them. Fortunately, there was someone there to help you. They told you of the Force, and how to use your newfound abilities. Some time has passed since this teacher left for parts unknown, but now you hear their voice calling to you, and you are not the only one...

The first session is a rescue mission, where the PCS will reunite with the Jedi-in-hiding that helped them. From there, a lot of options are open, but will be colored by the mentor character's background, with major story beats centered around either the mentor's sacrifice and the PCs taking up the fight, or the PCs helping their mentor toward redemption. Ask the PCs what they remember about their mentor and how he/she helped them.

A good point has been brought up though. Would Force and Destiny be a good stand alone game? I would say it is a very narrow setting and would better fit One or two players than a group. But then again, why couldn't one use this book to do a Jedi Academy campaign. Hopefully there will be enough content to do something like that.

A good point has been brought up though. Would Force and Destiny be a good stand alone game? I would say it is a very narrow setting and would better fit One or two players than a group. But then again, why couldn't one use this book to do a Jedi Academy campaign. Hopefully there will be enough content to do something like that.

The rub with F&D is that while parties from the previous two games felt very organic, F&D parties seem contrived because they are. You're playing statistical anomolies together on the run from the evil Empire. And while it's better to hang together than hang seperately, the truth is that a party of Jedi is like a party of Bounty Hunters: it would be much more natural for each of the PCs to develop their own crew for support. So good on FFG for providing such variation among the Force users to give the best chance possible for a viable party of Force users, but I don't expect F&D becomes the only book in play for the majority of games that use it.

Band of the Hand

Five Force-Sensitive youths living on the edge of the Empire are taken in by former Jedi Master Jobediah (or Joe) and taught the basics of using the Force while hiding off the beaten path on a little settled planet. Living off the land and learning to work together they are becoming a team. Then their master receives a message from a friend and leaves to help him only to not return. When the group decide to investigate they discover that he was discovered and hunted down by an inquisitor. Now all they have left are their memories and a holocron of their master. And the willingness to fight an evil Empire.

A good point has been brought up though. Would Force and Destiny be a good stand alone game? I would say it is a very narrow setting and would better fit One or two players than a group. But then again, why couldn't one use this book to do a Jedi Academy campaign. Hopefully there will be enough content to do something like that.

The rub with F&D is that while parties from the previous two games felt very organic, F&D parties seem contrived because they are. You're playing statistical anomolies together on the run from the evil Empire. And while it's better to hang together than hang seperately, the truth is that a party of Jedi is like a party of Bounty Hunters: it would be much more natural for each of the PCs to develop their own crew for support. So good on FFG for providing such variation among the Force users to give the best chance possible for a viable party of Force users, but I don't expect F&D becomes the only book in play for the majority of games that use it.

True, but I think they missed an opportunity here as a stand alone game especially with the release of SW Rebels, which will very likely bring in a new batch of younger players who are going to want to play what they've seen. It's true that you can make all the the characters you see in the show but not with F&D alone, you must get one or the other CRBs to do it (or you could jury rig the current Careers, but lets be honest in that that is a less than ideal solution). I'm not making the argument that it's a money grab thing, I don't care about that, but that it's a real deviation from what they described was going to be the development model of each CRB being a stand alone game that would allow you to play what you experience in the films.

I'm also fine with some duplication of Careers found in other CRBs, I thought they did a fine job with EotE and AoR's similar but different Careers and was looking forward to what they would come up with in F&D. Unfortunately thats not how it's panned out, it's not slit ones wrists time but it is a little disappointing.

True, but I think they missed an opportunity here as a stand alone game especially with the release of SW Rebels, which will very likely bring in a new batch of younger players who are going to want to play what they've seen. It's true that you can make all the the characters you see in the show but not with F&D alone, you must get one or the other CRBs to do it (or you could jury rig the current Careers, but lets be honest in that that is a less than ideal solution).

Given that Rebels was only announced last year, and how we've only had short glimpses of each character up until very recently, how exactly would FFG have fit Rebels into their release schedule??

I'm not making the argument that it's a money grab thing, I don't care about that, but that it's a real deviation from what they described was going to be the development model of each CRB being a stand alone game that would allow you to play what you experience in the films.

It's not any sort of deviation. It is exactly what they've said from the beginning :

To encapsulate the operatic grandeur of the Star Wars universe, the Star Wars Roleplaying Game will be presented in three epic installments. These take place during the height of the Rebel Alliance’s struggle against the Galactic Empire. Star Wars : Edge of the Empire is the first of these installments, focusing on the fringes of society, on the scum and villainy of the galaxy and the explorers and colonists of the Outer Rim. In this game, players take on the roles of hard-hearted bounty hunters, roguish scoundrels, charming smugglers, or fearless explorers trying to survive and thrive on the edges of civilization. Visit our description page to learn more.

In the second installment, Star Wars : Age of Rebellion, the players take the fight to the oppressive Galactic Empire as cunning spies, cocky pilots, and dedicated soldiers in the Rebel Alliance. Finally, in Star Wars : Force and Destiny, t he players become figures of legend; the last surviving Force users in the galaxy. Hunted by the Empire, they must stay alive, and more importantly, stay true to the ideals of their forebearers—the fabled Jedi. Each of these independent game lines stands alone as a unique gaming experience while fully integrating with the others to form a single unified system.

Given that Rebels was only announced last year, and how we've only had short glimpses of each character up until very recently, how exactly would FFG have fit Rebels into their release schedule??

I work in the TV animation industry and a show like Rebels was in development for quite a bit longer then a year and Disney likely, but not necessarily, let FFG know about it during the negotiations. Regardless it's still a missed opportunity

I missed that last part, thank you for copying it here. My opinion is still the same, I think it was a minor mistake to not have other non-FU Careers in F&D rather than make all FU Careers with a dozen Specializations, many of which feel like they are only separate because they needed to have the requisite number.

Again, I don't dislike what they have done I just don't think it was the better choice.

Given that Rebels was only announced last year, and how we've only had short glimpses of each character up until very recently, how exactly would FFG have fit Rebels into their release schedule??

I work in the TV animation industry and a show like Rebels was in development for quite a bit longer then a year and Disney likely, but not necessarily, let FFG know about it during the negotiations. Regardless it's still a missed opportunity.

Rebels wasn't actually being finalized for production until after Lucas sold the property to disney. prior to that they had scripts and characters and broad strokes of plot designed for Star Wars underworld. Seeing as how the deal wasn't finalized until early 2013, all of FFGs design work for Edge and their outline for their series was basically through it's paces. So no, I doubt when FFG acquired their license back in 2011-ish, that they had any real idea about Rebels other than "there may be a new show out close to 2014/2015."

I'm sure by the time that Rebels was firmly being developed as a full order of episodes, Edge of the Empire was already underway, seeing as finalizing the details for Rebels likely came about in Q2 of 2013, which was also the street date for Edge. So while it may have been a better decision to build the game around that model, the tracks were already laid out.

Also, the Rebel model, while standard, is difficult to replicate effectively for all the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. To produce a core to build a Rebels group out of the gate, you'd need a book more like the Saga core, which was great, but a touch generic, and had a couple glaring ... quirks in the rules. Quirks I love, but not the kind of game experience Sam et al had in mind. And the FFG crew have had a chance to tailor the force experience to exactly their perception of what they think it should be, not rushed (hopefully) to meet a deadline.

I think FaD is a lot of force material in a book (rivals JATM in terms of force options and in the final product I'm sure Lore). But rebellion was a lot of Soldiery in a single core. It's just what it is. YMMV of course.

Given that Rebels was only announced last year, and how we've only had short glimpses of each character up until very recently, how exactly would FFG have fit Rebels into their release schedule??

I work in the TV animation industry and a show like Rebels was in development for quite a bit longer then a year and Disney likely, but not necessarily, let FFG know about it during the negotiations. Regardless it's still a missed opportunity

It's not any sort of deviation. It is exactly what they've said from the beginning :

To encapsulate the operatic grandeur of the Star Wars universe, the Star Wars Roleplaying Game will be presented in three epic installments. These take place during the height of the Rebel Alliance’s struggle against the Galactic Empire. Star Wars : Edge of the Empire is the first of these installments, focusing on the fringes of society, on the scum and villainy of the galaxy and the explorers and colonists of the Outer Rim. In this game, players take on the roles of hard-hearted bounty hunters, roguish scoundrels, charming smugglers, or fearless explorers trying to survive and thrive on the edges of civilization. Visit our description page to learn more.

In the second installment, Star Wars : Age of Rebellion, the players take the fight to the oppressive Galactic Empire as cunning spies, cocky pilots, and dedicated soldiers in the Rebel Alliance. Finally, in Star Wars : Force and Destiny, t he players become figures of legend; the last surviving Force users in the galaxy. Hunted by the Empire, they must stay alive, and more importantly, stay true to the ideals of their forebearers—the fabled Jedi. Each of these independent game lines stands alone as a unique gaming experience while fully integrating with the others to form a single unified system.

I missed that last part, thank you for copying it here. My opinion is still the same, I think it was a minor mistake to not have other non-FU Careers in F&D rather than make all FU Careers with a dozen Specializations, many of which feel like they are only separate because they needed to have the requisite number.

Again, I don't dislike what they have done I just don't think it was the better choice.

I think you are missing the point of how they have developed the system. When they asked people what Star Wars was to them they basically got 3 answers. 1. It is the fringe trying to avoid them empire and make a buck. Basically Edge of the empire. 2. The battle between the rebels and the empire for freedom. 3. Jedi and their stuggles keeping from falling to the dark side.

Rather than dedicate 100 pages in a core book to each of those types of games they decided to dedicate a whole core rule book to each style of came. We are actually getting more game than if they went with 1 core rule book.

As to those wanting non force users in the Force and Destiny book. Exactly how many versions of the 6 core classes in the previous books do we need? We have the non military version. We have the military version. And we actually have the force user version. If you want a non force using class run a Age or edge character. They are fully compatible.

I think the statement that this isn't a stand alone game because it only includes Force Users is, frankly, pretty ridiculous. Sure, it could have been expanded to include other character types more readily but that isn't the intent of the system. This is Force and Destiny and it's focus is on Force Users and their place in the galaxy.

To turn around and say this isn't a stand alone book because of this focus is a bit like saying that Vampire: the Masquerade isn't a stand alone book because you can't play a werewolf character without getting another book. The whole series of World of Darkness books exist in one universe but focus on one particular group of supernaturals. In this case we are in the Star Wars Universe but this book is about Force Users in it.

The question is, can you play a game with only this book? Yes, you absolutely can. The game will consist of largely force users admittedly but it is absolutely playable. If you really want a non-force user that is even possible it just doesn't have careers focused towards doing this, but it can be done. Therefore, this is 100% a stand alone book.

Could they have done more with it, sure. Is it necessary to make the game playable, not at all. Any who feel this isn't a stand alone book are urged to read the game's description which starts with: "In the Star Wars®: Force and Destiny™ roleplaying game, you and your friends assume the roles of characters who possess the rare and dangerous ability to touch and use the Force, the energy field that binds and surrounds every living thing."

This clearly states the scope, focus and intent of the game and it delivers on that. If that is what people actually wanted or not is another question entirely but does not change the fact that the game is playable with this one book alone within the scope they intended for it.

I was also in the camp that thought there'd be non-Force-sensitive options in Force & Destiny. But honestly, I was glad to be proven wrong. I think this product is exceptional, and I get excited just thinking up campaign ideas and character builds, moreso than I did with EotE or AoR.

I wasn't what you'd call a fan of the Jedi in games before this. I really thought I'd only want to play in an "Edge of the Empire" type environment.

I decided to give it a shot with a full party of Force users and our first session was a LOT of fun. I'm really excited about how Morality and Conflict work, it was fun to see them wrestling with the temptation and sometimes the necessity of drawing on the dark side.

I wasn't what you'd call a fan of the Jedi in games before this. I really thought I'd only want to play in an "Edge of the Empire" type environment.

I decided to give it a shot with a full party of Force users and our first session was a LOT of fun. I'm really excited about how Morality and Conflict work, it was fun to see them wrestling with the temptation and sometimes the necessity of drawing on the dark side.

I agree with this, and although we have just barely scratched the surface with force users ... I think we have found that having force sensitives rather than full fledged Jedi's has given the players in our group the opportunity to try and find their place in the universe and has given them a lot of fun both in how they try to use [or in some cases, figure out how to use] their character as well as in the narrative.

I'm tempted to try something with character development so that the players can work up to stronger force users over the course of a longer campaign is to gift any of them who want to play a force user with the starting spec. of FS Exile, letting them dabble in it a bit before they purchase one of the specs from F&D (or possibly, have them purchase Emergent before the F&D specs). Not sure how it would fly, but I think this way, over quite a bit of time if they stick with it, could get upwards of 5-6 force dice.

FU only? Hey, watch your language. My kids could be reading this.

I'm glad to finally see that I'm not the only one that thinks non-Force users could have had a place in this game. Sure, I can just make a character in EoE and play that, but I've been gaming for a long time and I know GMs. The inexperienced, immature, or simply unwilling are going to block it. I've have played with so many GMs that outright blacklist any material from any book they don't own that man no longer has numbers to count them. I shouldn't have to fight with my GM or try and shoehorn a character in if I decide I don't want to play a Force user this time. It's not like I'm cheating, using unofficial material, or doing something else questionable.

Further, as a stand alone game, I don't see why this game couldn't have had non Force users, even if we knew the emphasis was on those space wizards. You could easily make a character with a destiny as important as any pretend Jedi. I don't see why that is any less valid of a choice.

As I said earlier I do like F&D and my disappointment with not having non-Force Users along side FUs as part of it is minor. My real disappointment is just how some of the Careers feel a bit contrived as a result of not having the other Careers available and shoehorning special Jedi versions of them instead. Is it really necessary to have a Guardian or Sentinel, or even a Seeker, be different than a Warrior? Consular and Mystic seem appropriate but I really don't see the necessity for four Combat Careers other than they needed to follow the formula that you need six Careers and three Specialisations each.

So even if I drop the need for non- Force Users, which I'm okay with, I still would rather they had broken from the formula and instead given us 3-4 Careers with more Specialisations under each than what they chose to do. I'd have especially liked to have seen the four Combat focused Careers a single Career path.

As I said earlier I do like F&D and my disappointment with not having non-Force Users along side FUs as part of it is minor. My real disappointment is just how some of the Careers feel a bit contrived as a result of not having the other Careers available and shoehorning special Jedi versions of them instead. Is it really necessary to have a Guardian or Sentinel, or even a Seeker, be different than a Warrior? Consular and Mystic seem appropriate but I really don't see the necessity for four Combat Careers other than they needed to follow the formula that you need six Careers and three Specialisations each.

So even if I drop the need for non- Force Users, which I'm okay with, I still would rather they had broken from the formula and instead given us 3-4 Careers with more Specialisations under each than what they chose to do. I'd have especially liked to have seen the four Combat focused Careers a single Career path.

The Sentinel, Guardian and Seeker all have VERY different flavors. And turn out VERY differently. I like having lots of choices.

I have to say i am disapointed with F&D

Mine and my players big complaint is the 2 mechanics for force users.

This has lead to us switch to a new game and no longer supporting this one.

exp.

Explorer-0,Fringer-0,emergent-20,Shii-Cho Knight-40 =60 xp

Warrior-0,Shii-Cho Knight-0,Fringer-30 =30

Now taking a same build look the characters would have the same traits and skill.

the emergent is only taken for the Force Rating.

what we get is to have the same PC the EOE/AOR player has to that 30 extra unused points to have the same character.

this to me and my players is a huge error in design.

the mechanic for the force was already there (Force specialties as universals) but to keep a book format that was not needed here they in my opinion broke the game.

there was no need for the careers that for the most part are just Forced-up versions of the EOE/AOR careers.

This book should be a supplement to the other 2 not a core book, so at this point it is a money grab by FFG to make me pay more by page count for info i already have.

and on top of that the

1.conflict if you know/not use it trait

2.breaking of the mechanics skill to fix build lightsaber

3.super lightsabers

4.and the paragon of light/dark at start-up

were just the nail in the coffin.

I know i could just play EOE/AOR but then its missing the Jedi (the thing that makes it different then any other setting. and to be fair there are better sci-fi game mechanics out there then this one.

sad ive been following this game since FFG announced that they got the licence

so farewell to all i will not be back endless i see some major improvements in this game

I have to say i am disapointed with F&D

Mine and my players big complaint is the 2 mechanics for force users.

This has lead to us switch to a new game and no longer supporting this one.

exp.

Explorer-0,Fringer-0,emergent-20,Shii-Cho Knight-40 =60 xp

Warrior-0,Shii-Cho Knight-0,Fringer-30 =30

Now taking a same build look the characters would have the same traits and skill.

the emergent is only taken for the Force Rating.

what we get is to have the same PC the EOE/AOR player has to that 30 extra unused points to have the same character.

this to me and my players is a huge error in design.

the mechanic for the force was already there (Force specialties as universals) but to keep a book format that was not needed here they in my opinion broke the game.

there was no need for the careers that for the most part are just Forced-up versions of the EOE/AOR careers.

This book should be a supplement to the other 2 not a core book, so at this point it is a money grab by FFG to make me pay more by page count for info i already have.

and on top of that the

1.conflict if you know/not use it trait

2.breaking of the mechanics skill to fix build lightsaber

3.super lightsabers

4.and the paragon of light/dark at start-up

were just the nail in the coffin.

I know i could just play EOE/AOR but then its missing the Jedi (the thing that makes it different then any other setting. and to be fair there are better sci-fi game mechanics out there then this one.

sad ive been following this game since FFG announced that they got the licence

so farewell to all i will not be back endless i see some major improvements in this game

I can't make sense of what you just said. But it sounds like you did not get how F&D works.

Apparently it's important enough that it needed to be posted twice, identically, in two different threads.

Apparently it's important enough that it needed to be posted twice, identically, in two different threads.

"I am really going now. I really mean it this time... really ...don't try to stop me...

...

I really mean it..."

I have to say i am disapointed with F&D

Mine and my players big complaint is the 2 mechanics for force users.

This has lead to us switch to a new game and no longer supporting this one.

exp.

Explorer-0,Fringer-0,emergent-20,Shii-Cho Knight-40 =60 xp

Warrior-0,Shii-Cho Knight-0,Fringer-30 =30

Now taking a same build look the characters would have the same traits and skill.

the emergent is only taken for the Force Rating.

what we get is to have the same PC the EOE/AOR player has to that 30 extra unused points to have the same character.

this to me and my players is a huge error in design.

the mechanic for the force was already there (Force specialties as universals) but to keep a book format that was not needed here they in my opinion broke the game.

there was no need for the careers that for the most part are just Forced-up versions of the EOE/AOR careers.

This book should be a supplement to the other 2 not a core book, so at this point it is a money grab by FFG to make me pay more by page count for info i already have.

and on top of that the

1.conflict if you know/not use it trait

2.breaking of the mechanics skill to fix build lightsaber

3.super lightsabers

4.and the paragon of light/dark at start-up

were just the nail in the coffin.

I know i could just play EOE/AOR but then its missing the Jedi (the thing that makes it different then any other setting. and to be fair there are better sci-fi game mechanics out there then this one.

sad ive been following this game since FFG announced that they got the licence

so farewell to all i will not be back endless i see some major improvements in this game

Can someone translate this for me?

Can someone translate this for me?

I think part of his concern is something I'm seeing more and more. Basically, F&D represents the dark side of the Force, and that upsets some of people. In F&D, you can start right away as a Force user, cutting a lot of the run around and BS we've had to put up with up until now. You have the quick and easy path where you can immediately get power. This is thematic for some, but for most gamers, this is strictly a power gaming decision.

To put this in context, I'm putting together an AoR game and two players have asked to play Force users. After giving the preamble, I handed the F&D book to one player without concern, knowing that he was only doing this out of curiosity rather than power. The second player concerns me greatly. I know that he wants to play an F&D character (as opposed to Spec'ing into FSE) for the quick grab, hoping that he will become more powerful by gaming the system.

So I think the primary concern, like one that I have, is that we already have rules for handling Force users, and that using careers and dropping this quick and easy path up front may have been a misstep.

He/she also seems to have some sort of concern regarding conflict (perhaps fear over GM abuse), the starting options re: Morality for characters (whereas EoE and AoR characters decreased their Ob/Duty, F&D character just get their package with no strings attached), and some unidentified concerns about lightsabers.

While I may share some of these concerns, I'm not interested in taking it to the same extreme.

It's hard to explain but currently F&D feels a little too pre-Rebellion Era to me and I think getting rid of the Force User Careers and instead just expanding on the Exile/Emergent style we see in EotE and AoR might be a better way to go. I'm not dumping on F&D, I like it and I think playing it as is will be plenty fun, though maybe in a different era, but having those Careers just doesn't feel old skool Star Wars-y to me.

I haven't decided yet and I'm too busy right now to play with it but I've been considering when the final CRB comes out to just not have any F&D Careers available (Unless one of the Players wants to play a Witch or some other obviously non-jedi type) then go through the Specializations and condense them down to 3 or 4. I'll then have all the PCs that want to be FU to choose a Career from EotE or AoR and Exile or Emergent. Once they do this they'll gain access to those 3-4 other Specialization trees.