I do have to admit I am a little disappointed that Force Users are Careers at all, especially considering the context of the setting and how Force Use is already established in EotE and AoR, but not enough to get upset about it (or not be excited to get it). I would rather have seen these new Force User Trees as an addition to already existing Careers, like Exile and Emergent are. I feel like they did it the way they have with individual Force User Careers because its supposed to be a stand alone game, but even as a stand alone game is it really going to be only Force Users and no other PC types? Because thats what we're going to get here with a stand alone F&D, all FU all the time. If you want a game with other Career types you are going to have to get one of the other books, and I'm not complaining about cost but that the game seems incomplete without them.

In short I'd like to see a section in F&D that gives official guidelines to using the new Talent Trees etc. with Careers found in the other books so Players can choose them without having to take a Force User Career.

Anyway, I think this deserves a little discussion and some ideas of how to use these new Force User Trees without having to choose a Force using Career. I don't think it'll be difficult and I'm curious as to what people think and how they plan on addressing this.

You can purchase any of the specializations in the FaD book like normal - just spend the XP.

However, you cannot use any of the Force talents (the ones with the starburst on the talent tree) without a Force Rating of 1 or more.

If you aren't starting with one of the FaD careers, all you need to do to get a Force Rating is buy into either Force-Sensitive Exile or Force-Sensitive Emergent first. It's an XP sink, for sure, but they're both useful, versatile specs, so the XP expenditure isn't wasted.

Did you read The Force chapter? Specifically Page 194 under the sections "Force Sensitive Characters" and "Becoming Force Sensitive?"

You can purchase any of the specializations in the FaD book like normal - just spend the XP.

However, you cannot use any of the Force talents (the ones with the starburst on the talent tree) without a Force Rating of 1 or more.

If you aren't starting with one of the FaD careers, all you need to do to get a Force Rating is buy into either Force-Sensitive Exile or Force-Sensitive Emergent first. It's an XP sink, for sure, but they're both useful, versatile specs, so the XP expenditure isn't wasted.

I figured it would be that simple I was thinking on the whole idea of these being stand alone game that it's pretty obviously missing other Careers. In any case what you've said was my initial take on it, it would be nice however not to have the extra out of Career EXP cost.

Did you read The Force chapter? Specifically Page 194 under the sections "Force Sensitive Characters" and "Becoming Force Sensitive?"

No I haven't read through the whole thing yet, thank you for pointing this page out.

You wouldn't even need to get one of the non career Forcer paths. Just buy a spec that will eventually get you a Force rating. Yeah it would be slower but those are the options available. Either start with a Forcer career, buy emergent or exile, or get a Forcer spec that will eventually get you a rating.

You wouldn't even need to get one of the non career Forcer paths. Just buy a spec that will eventually get you a Force rating. Yeah it would be slower but those are the options available. Either start with a Forcer career, buy emergent or exile, or get a Forcer spec that will eventually get you a rating.

That actually wouldn't work...you cannot benefit from any Force talents until you have a Force Rating, and the "Force Rating" talent is a Force talent. So...unless you start as a Force & Destiny Career, you would need FR 1 that comes from buying into Force Sensitive Exile/Emergent

It goes the other way, too. FSE's have a lot of value for F&D characters. Exile has great talents for combat monsters and an awesome bottom row. Emergent has a quick path to +1 FR. All with no XP surcharge.

Not to mention combinations like Shadow and Emergent for 4 sleight of minds...

You can purchase any of the specializations in the FaD book like normal - just spend the XP.

However, you cannot use any of the Force talents (the ones with the starburst on the talent tree) without a Force Rating of 1 or more.

If you aren't starting with one of the FaD careers, all you need to do to get a Force Rating is buy into either Force-Sensitive Exile or Force-Sensitive Emergent first. It's an XP sink, for sure, but they're both useful, versatile specs, so the XP expenditure isn't wasted.

I figured it would be that simple I was thinking on the whole idea of these being stand alone game that it's pretty obviously missing other Careers. In any case what you've said was my initial take on it, it would be nice however not to have the extra out of Career EXP cost.

Playing someone whith noforce powers in F&D is easy- dont buy powers. (or at least only buy the Enhance tree)

A Seeker/hunter plays as a nice boba-fett type character, Makashi Duelist does a Taipani Noble to a T, and Starfighter Ace can handle a freighter as well as a fighter.

I have yet to be able to play test this, lots of people in my group wanting to ref things, but my immediate thought is that I would probably end up running the force users more like EoE and AoR instead of having the force careers from FaD. One of my biggest issues are the Lightsaber specializations, given the era the game is being set in I find the concept of 3-5 people all of whom somehow manage to get the Jedi Lockpick. Hell, even just 3-5 Force users without the Jedi Lockpick is bad enough in the Rebellion era.

Don't get me wrong, I do like a fair amount of what I am reading, and if I was running a game either Rise of the Empire or New Rebublic era (or even Old Republic era) I would have no problem with using this book as is.

Given the Rebellion era setting that FFG have decided on I would have possibly preferred FaD as a splatbook for the other two core books.

E

Because thats what we're going to get here with a stand alone F&D, all FU all the time. If you want a game with other Career types you are going to have to get one of the other books, and I'm not complaining about cost but that the game seems incomplete without them.

With the game development model they chose, they did kind of paint themselves into a corner on this. But I'm not sure how else they could have done it, as the EotE and AoR mundane careers pretty much cover just about any archetype you'd want. There's no sense in repeating any of that in F&D or inventing a "new Scholar that's kind of like the old Scholar".

I don't view F&D as a standalone game, rather more as an extension of the previous two. In some ways, that's how I wish they'd have marketed it: as a sourcebook both for those who want to expand on their character's Force abilities, and for those who want to run an Old Republic-style game. That would make it more clear that you could approach Force users from either direction, and still make the earlier careers available. I don't think I'd run, or want to play in, a pure F&D-only campaign.

I think that a small party of Force users make sense. I think that these people will gravitate toward one another in a hostile setting, like the Imperial era. And if you don't want to run that game, FaD was also designed to integrate with the other games in the line.

Despite what FFG says, the three "systems" work best if you merge them. It's true that you can play them all solo, but they are so much better if you use all of the resources.

I don't begrudge them the way they're packaging their systems, but as far as my playing goes, it's all just the Star Wars RPG.

So care to suggest how to run such a game?

Off the top of my head I figure asking them to design two characters each the idea is that when done they select one of them to undergo the knight level process and then they select one of the other player's spare characters to be their padawan...

Then run the Order 66 scenario with them all involved and see who survive...

Years later they meet up after receiving a message from a surviving Master leading to the Beta adventure...

Would you like to play in that game?

Another possibility is that they were isolated so have no idea what happened at the end of the Clone Wars, their supply ship is late so one of their master's heads out to discover what's going on his padawan rushes back ahead of the approaching stormtroopers and your characters now have to find a way off this world before they hunted down or the Imperials just glass the world because they can't beat them with overwhelming numbers...

Any others you care to suggest for the start of an all FU game?

I liked GM Phil's setup and totally plan to steal it. Now that I've called him out, I'm sure he'll describe at length...

Because thats what we're going to get here with a stand alone F&D, all FU all the time. If you want a game with other Career types you are going to have to get one of the other books, and I'm not complaining about cost but that the game seems incomplete without them.

With the game development model they chose, they did kind of paint themselves into a corner on this. But I'm not sure how else they could have done it, as the EotE and AoR mundane careers pretty much cover just about any archetype you'd want. There's no sense in repeating any of that in F&D or inventing a "new Scholar that's kind of like the old Scholar".

I don't view F&D as a standalone game, rather more as an extension of the previous two. In some ways, that's how I wish they'd have marketed it: as a sourcebook both for those who want to expand on their character's Force abilities, and for those who want to run an Old Republic-style game. That would make it more clear that you could approach Force users from either direction, and still make the earlier careers available. I don't think I'd run, or want to play in, a pure F&D-only campaign.

I generally agree, but they didn't paint themselves into a corner, they just didn't solve the problem of wanting three stand alone books with the existing mix of careers. I think the other issue this career structure creates is the 2-3 extra careers that may be added in the F&D career books.

I would have prefered something that had the Careers somewhat generic. Career: Martial Artist, with skills and styles for 3 of the 6 different fighting styles. Thus allowing 3-4 more specialisations in the Career Book. Career: Fallen Jedi, this gut survived Order 66 and went into hiding, a range of survival skills. Career: Jedi in training, this guy has a master and will get trained in a much more structured environment. Career: Self Taught Force User.

Then you add the careers for the mundanes, perhaps a Colonist/Smuggler (Jedi Sympathsiser) blend, they guy that has a ship and hides the Force User and helps in keeping him hidden. Career: Jedi Supporter, these guys are the folks who are the brains behind the dude with the lightsaber. So you have the Politician, Mechanic and Pilot.

As it stands sourcebook is a good description, and if you aren't prepared to have a new scholar same as the old scholar, then why do you have the new combat rules the same as the old combat rules?

How do we as people who are excited to have this in our hands justify the critisism that FFG just wanted to ask us to pay a third time for a core rulebook if it doesn't meet the expectation that it is stand alone?

Because thats what we're going to get here with a stand alone F&D, all FU all the time. If you want a game with other Career types you are going to have to get one of the other books, and I'm not complaining about cost but that the game seems incomplete without them.

With the game development model they chose, they did kind of paint themselves into a corner on this. But I'm not sure how else they could have done it, as the EotE and AoR mundane careers pretty much cover just about any archetype you'd want. There's no sense in repeating any of that in F&D or inventing a "new Scholar that's kind of like the old Scholar".

I don't view F&D as a standalone game, rather more as an extension of the previous two. In some ways, that's how I wish they'd have marketed it: as a sourcebook both for those who want to expand on their character's Force abilities, and for those who want to run an Old Republic-style game. That would make it more clear that you could approach Force users from either direction, and still make the earlier careers available. I don't think I'd run, or want to play in, a pure F&D-only campaign.

I generally agree, but they didn't paint themselves into a corner, they just didn't solve the problem of wanting three stand alone books with the existing mix of careers. I think the other issue this career structure creates is the 2-3 extra careers that may be added in the F&D career books.

I would have prefered something that had the Careers somewhat generic. Career: Martial Artist, with skills and styles for 3 of the 6 different fighting styles. Thus allowing 3-4 more specialisations in the Career Book. Career: Fallen Jedi, this gut survived Order 66 and went into hiding, a range of survival skills. Career: Jedi in training, this guy has a master and will get trained in a much more structured environment. Career: Self Taught Force User.

Then you add the careers for the mundanes, perhaps a Colonist/Smuggler (Jedi Sympathsiser) blend, they guy that has a ship and hides the Force User and helps in keeping him hidden. Career: Jedi Supporter, these guys are the folks who are the brains behind the dude with the lightsaber. So you have the Politician, Mechanic and Pilot.

As it stands sourcebook is a good description, and if you aren't prepared to have a new scholar same as the old scholar, then why do you have the new combat rules the same as the old combat rules?

How do we as people who are excited to have this in our hands justify the critisism that FFG just wanted to ask us to pay a third time for a core rulebook if it doesn't meet the expectation that it is stand alone?

I thought this was kind of what they were going to do. The way they did it is actually better. this way you have much more variation in the type of force user you are going to be. If you want to be a mundane you have 12 options to choose from.

Daeglan, where are the 12 Specialisations that are not Force Users in F&D that you speak of?

Daeglan, where are the 12 Specialisations that are not Force Users in F&D that you speak of?

Daeglan, where are the 12 Specialisations that are not Force Users in F&D that you speak of?

He didn't mean in F&D. He meant 12 *careers* in the other 2 books. IE: If you want to play a non-FS, don't buy F&D. Honestly, there's not really anything in it for people who don't want FSs in their game.

If the books are supposed to be able to stand on their own how is this one doing that then? If I need this one and another one as a minimum how has this book succeeded as a core rulebook? The moment you say - get another book - means that it is failing on this.

Why have humans in it, if I have to buy either AoR or EotE? Why have combat rules?

I also think FFG are making it harder to come up with extra career specialisation after these, just how many more variations on Sage could there be?

If the books are supposed to be able to stand on their own how is this one doing that then? If I need this one and another one as a minimum how has this book succeeded as a core rulebook? The moment you say - get another book - means that it is failing on this.

I also would have liked to see some non-FS in the F&D book, but it seems the theme they had in mind is very different from the one I had imagined when all the information I had was the title. I also wonder how they're planning to expand the careers, given the amount of duplication that already exists between specializations, but I'm sure they didn't get this far without thinking about the potential splats.

If the books are supposed to be able to stand on their own how is this one doing that then? If I need this one and another one as a minimum how has this book succeeded as a core rulebook? The moment you say - get another book - means that it is failing on this.

"Stand-alone" doesn't mean "does everything you could possibly want it to". "Star Wars" is not, itself, a game concept.

However, it should also find a sensible balance between everything you may want and something that may reasonably be desired. By being as specialised as it is it does not achieve that, there is no Princess, Farmboy, Smuggler and his Wookie friend.

With no overlap in careers and specialisations, which AoR had. I think those "whiney threads" that complain about the need to buy multiple books have a certain valadity to them that AoR didn't.

EotE and AoR were about their respective areas, the fringe and the rebellion. With minimal Force in each. And people bitched and moaned about having no Jedi or other big Force-users. Now we have a book dedicated to Force use and people b!tch and moan about not having scoundrels and diplomats. As the saying goes, you can not please everyone.

I guess I'll have to wait until I can either participate, watch or listen to such a game before I can agree.

It feels off that the one book that deals with force use specifically and they can't create beginner character pre-gens... I'm hoping the beginner game version of this corrects that oversight.

As for whether it can be used with the other games, of course it can but that's for your gm to decide since I agree the Exile and the Emergent make a better starting point than using this.

That doesn't mean it can't be done, weird as it sounds I'm not that keen on Jedi but this doesn't seem to match what I expected some of which is good news the rest not so much.

Now I'll stop b****ing and moaning and get back to reading after all I'd like to know how Dm Phil dealt with this too!