What baffles me is that people would had thought less of his opponent if he didn't allow him (like you said, "you have to be a wanker").

Because why wouldn't he have cloaked? If you want the win so bad you would refuse to let me say, "oh she's cloaked btw" I would just concede right then and there. "There you go mate, here's your win, well done."

The question is not why he wouldn't, but if he did.

And he didn't.

Oh, good grief, Dread - for what possible reason would someone not use Whisper's ability to drop a focus token? Not re-cloaking if able I can maybe - maybe see - it's pretty dang unlikely, but if you are in a sticky spot on the board where you aren't sure you'll be able to position yourself to de-cloak the next turn and you definitely want to...MAYBE...

But not dropping the focus? There's absolutely no reason for that, ergo it's in the same grouping to my mind as maintaining the EXACT number of stress tokens on Tycho once you've got to the point you could never burn them off...it's unneeded bookkeeping, and not a "mistake". Better to follow procedure, and put them down? Sure - but just because they aren't there, doesn't mean you should assume the enemy just decided to give you a free shot.

That's the very antithesis of the 'fly casual' campaign.

You didn't do anything wrong. The decision was up to your opponent and he allowed it. I know the stakes are different but I always give my opponent the first forgotten ACD cloak for free because it is easy to forget.

If your opponent had said no this discussion would still have happened and been just the opposite. Why didn't he just "fly causal".

Congratulations to both of you and your opponent for outstanding performances both on and off the table.

That trip sounds like an ordeal!

But other than that one brainfart moment (or rather the agonizing over it later), it sounds like you had fun which is really all that matters, it is a game!

Its not a big deal, some people can just get really riled up about things and don't know how to temper their passion.

The best part about your story, is it sounds like you have an amazing wife and family! Go home and be a great husband and dad! I only have experience in the former. :-)

DreadStar, my name's Glen Lamb, if we ever get drawn against each other in a tourney just let me know it's you and i'll concede for you ok princess? x

It is quite ironic that you try to insult me appealing to my virility, while you are the one conceding because you don't like people who doesn't allow you to make mistakes. Good riddance i guess.

@Xanderf

Because you didn't. If i forget about making an action, i don't get an action. Cloaking is an action. If i forget about doing the cloaking action it was my mistake and i don't get to cloak.

You have the tournament rules where this comes explained. Yes you can forget about stuff even if you are suppossed to be doing it all the time, but it comes to your opponent to allow it for you. His opponent allowed him so there is no problem. But WHY would you try to put blame on his opponent for saying no, that's what i find mind baffling.

It stops being sportsmanship and becomes forced behaviour.

I truly believe you deserve your championship. According to the rules your opponent has a chance to allow missed opportunities. I honestly have a bigger problem with the guy talking to your opponent during a match then him allowing the missed opportunity. The only time I get hung up on the "fly casual" concept is when it's expected of you to allow your opponents to fix mistakes and you become some sort of villain when you don't.

Great post, man. It's all about you and your opponent, and he allowed it. Therefore, you have no reason to doubt your win. You both have to be great players to get that far, and it's obvious that you are both skilled and also courteous. I have to say that, also at the Duluth, Georgia regional (first of all I think it's cool I was in a tournament with the new national champion) I didn't allow the other player to place out his tokens moments after the appropriate time. I won the match, but then, in the next round, I had the game won with minutes to go but made a fatal maneuver mistake, landing a ship on an asteroid, taking a damage and then losing the game to a modified win when he killed it with an ion turret. Karma? Possibly. I'm not the best player, but I didn't let an opponent correct a mistake when I probably should have. I went 4-2 for the day, 17th overall. Much better than I expected, but one of those wins was because I was not as gracious as your opponent. You have no reason to feel anything but celebration.

Fly Casual, Mr. National Champion. I hope we get to fly together again!

DreadStar, my name's Glen Lamb, if we ever get drawn against each other in a tourney just let me know it's you and i'll concede for you ok princess? x

Uncalled for.

No issue here. The controversy would just be "by not letting him cloak did he deserve to be champion?" You're taking the heat instead of him. No issue in my eyes D4rkT... Congrats... Shuttle on man. Shuttle on.

You seem to have a problem understand wanting to win by the book, and wanting to win at all cost.

I will let you sort it out by yourself.

Noting a mistake when it happens in a game is one thing.

Criticizing a game because of a mistake, especially one that has the full acknowledgement of both players, is another. Arm chair quarterbacks in these type of games is annoying.

First off congrats on the win. I just wanted to say I played against you at Atlanta regionals and you are a great dude. It was my second ever competitive game, I hadn't even played in a store tourney before and you set the tone for the rest of my day. You were upfront about the whole fly casual thing and I really appreciated that and carried it over to the rest of my matches.

Atlanta regionals set the tone for me to go back and try out the store tournies. I figured if people at a big regional event are laid back and friendly then a small store match has to be cool as well. And they were. I played in those first two settings with my buddy's ships. Because people like you have been cool and treated this thing for what it is, a game, I recently decided to buy my own set and keep going back to the store tournaments.

F the haters man, this is just a silly board game, ain't no real galaxy at stake. As long as enough people can keep that in perspective xwing should remain a great game to fly casually.

Noting a mistake when it happens in a game is one thing.

Criticizing a game because of a mistake, especially one that has the full acknowledgement of both players, is another. Arm chair quarterbacks in these type of games is annoying.

Except that's not what i am doing and i had posted saying so... like 3 times already in this thread alone?

I am not criticizing the game (that's to him and his opponent ... fourth time already), but how the community reacts to this kind of stuff, specially about what would happen if his opponent said no.

You checked with your opponent and the TO so it's not an issue. But think about it the other way, if your opponent was someone like you they would have had no issue whatsoever with correcting such a tiny slip and wouldn't have wanted to win because of a mistake like that either. And from what I've seen, unlike a lot of other communities, the people that play X-wing are terrific people like you. Probably nothing anyone can say will make a difference, but it sounds like you did an amazing job and you should enjoy it!

I was merely clarifying my stance.

I was merely clarifying my stance.

Apologies then.

Noting a mistake when it happens in a game is one thing.

Criticizing a game because of a mistake, especially one that has the full acknowledgement of both players, is another. Arm chair quarterbacks in these type of games is annoying.

Except that's not what i am doing and i had posted saying so... like 3 times already in this thread alone?

I am not criticizing the game (that's to him and his opponent ... fourth time already), but how the community reacts to this kind of stuff, specially about what would happen if his opponent said no.

If his opponent would have said 'no', I think most would generally have acknowledged that he would be within his rights to do so, but as a result have come off as a bit of a 'douchey rules lawyer'.

It's obvious what the intended state of the ship was when it was getting shot at, and from the read of the game it is equally clear both sides were skipping through dice modifier steps to expedite play. Which is perfectly normal.

Noting a mistake when it happens in a game is one thing.

Criticizing a game because of a mistake, especially one that has the full acknowledgement of both players, is another. Arm chair quarterbacks in these type of games is annoying.

Except that's not what i am doing and i had posted saying so... like 3 times already in this thread alone?

I am not criticizing the game (that's to him and his opponent ... fourth time already), but how the community reacts to this kind of stuff, specially about what would happen if his opponent said no.

If his opponent would have said 'no', I think most would generally have acknowledged that he would be within his rights to do so, but as a result have come off as a bit of a 'douchey rules lawyer'.

It's obvious what the intended state of the ship was when it was getting shot at, and from the read of the game it is equally clear both sides were skipping through dice modifier steps to expedite play. Which is perfectly normal.

So most would had called him a ****** rules lawyer for doing what was his right. I guess it is just me that i am not able to understand how doing things right can lead to such negative responses.

I will just stop posting, i think my opinion has been already covered enough.

Except take one thing into account. If you told me to re-do a mistake that i did, i wouldn't. Maybe that can give you some information of how i like to play.

Playing trying to use the game rules 100% =/= being a ******.

We can enjoy it on a different manner, but you don't need to try to put a negative adjective to something that's not neccesarily is ill intended.

@Rick. Clearly fatigue played into the situation and mistakes were made. Your opponent obviously recognised this and didn't let it get in the way of having an enjoyable game. Don't beat yourself up over it. You enjoyed the game - that's the main thing. At our gaming club we only have a couple of hard and fast rules, and one of them is: you are not allowed to comment or point out any missed opportunities on someone else's game. This works remarkably well. That idiot in the crowd had absolutely no place in talking to your opponent during your game. It wasn't his game, after all.

Don't let his poor etiquette nag at you. FFG and your opponent didn't have a problem with it, and neither should you.

Your attitude towards gaming is both refreshing and welcome. Don't ever let it go.

Sounds like you both did the best you could at the time and under the circumstances. And there is no doubt in my mind that we'd be having this same conversation even if the opposite decision was made. There was no ideal way to solve it once it happened, and I think we need to respect the decisions players make either way (people should not feel pressure one way or the other as long as they are following the rules).

I feel that this match should be respected as an example of sportsmanship at the highest level between two players of great conscience. Neither Rick or Jeff should should feel diminished in any way for the way things turned out. They played an amazing game and the rest of us are mere voyeurs.

So was this loudmouth a regular on here or TC or BGG? Was he lacking in social skills? Did he have a neckbeard?!

Rick, don't let that idiot in the crowd get to you. I happen to know that guy really well, he comes from a competitive martial arts background and this is his first minis game and first time at gen con. He definitely was out of line and didn't even think about your feelings and his poor etiquete during your guys' match. He had 3 days of x wing and was super pumped to see his friend fellow ohioan/store player make it to the finals! He did come up and ask why he was allowing you to recloak which was incredibly rude and unprofessional of him. He then went back and talked to Jeff's brother about how he should have vaped that phantom. But Jeff is a class act and knows about the pressure of the cameras and the crowd and this unempathetic idiot clearly wasn't thinking about it. I know for a fact that guy has definitely moved on and after reading your topic feels like an ass and is truly sorry. He definitely respects you as a player and person and hopes you can forgive him. He was just super excited for his friend and behaving like a football fan and being a jerk.

In case you guys haven't figured it out I'm the guy Rick is referring to and I feel absolutely terrible for my behavior. I didn't think about etiquette and had no business being visibly upset. Please don't take it personal as it had nothing to do with you! You and Jeff and better players than I and in that scenario a better person. I am humbled and feel ashamed of my actions and I hope you can forgive me as I was just an excited fan who didn't realize the consequences of his actions. I hope you can forgive me and we meet across the table as friends and have an amazing game!

My sincerest apologies

Ben.

So was this loudmouth a regular on here or TC or BGG? Was he lacking in social skills? Did he have a neckbeard?!

lol I post somewhat frequently and try to keep a nice goatee.

The best part about your story, is it sounds like you have an amazing wife and family! Go home and be a great husband and dad! I only have experience in the former. :-)

I think the best part is the part about having 6 boxes of new x-wing ships

And Rick, if you can't bring yourself to open those boxes of goodness, PM me, and I will provide my address to which you can send them as I promise to love them and take good care of them !!!

Rick i congratulate on your win and you should not feel ashamed about it. The game ran it's course according to you and your opponent. And everything that transpired was between the 2 of you and no one else.Again congrates.