Oh, that's a lovely image. Perfect for a Pilot card.

I'm going to have to get my photoshop on later on.

I love Google, there's a ton of talented artists out there. Good luck with some more pilot cards

Re: playable Gunboat though, I mean, we've dissected the stats to death, but I want it to handle like an X-Wing, hit like a BTL-A4, and have some unique way to make its offense potent or action-independent. I'm still a fan of XG—1-only Mods that impact its attack profile (fire-linked cannons, reroute power, that sort of thing).

Re: playable Gunboat though, I mean, we've dissected the stats to death, but I want it to handle like an X-Wing, hit like a BTL-A4, and have some unique way to make its offense potent or action-independent. I'm still a fan of XG—1-only Mods that impact its attack profile (fire-linked cannons, reroute power, that sort of thing).

Yep, the more I think of it, the more I'm inclined to think the unique Systems Upgrade would be the best bet:

...or something close to it. 2 dice primary hits, you get to fire a missile (if you still have the requisite Target Lock/Focus token). My only worry is limiting this to working with an Ion Cannon (do not want HLC's/Manglers on these ships).

I'd expect the basic Gunboat pilot card to come in at around the 22 point mark WITH an Ion Cannon - so 18-19 naked.

Why the "that hits" restriction? You massively reduce the viability of support secondary weapons in the fire link (Ion Cannon, Ion Pulse Missile, Flechette Torpedo, Flechette Cannon) by making them even less likely to hit by reducing their chance to fire in the first place.

Why the "that hits" restriction? You massively reduce the viability of support secondary weapons in the fire link (Ion Cannon, Ion Pulse Missile, Flechette Torpedo, Flechette Cannon) by making them even less likely to hit by reducing their chance to fire in the first place.

Glad it wasn't just me thinking it.

How about giving it turret rather than a cannon slot but making it so it fires like an A4.

Why the "that hits" restriction? You massively reduce the viability of support secondary weapons in the fire link (Ion Cannon, Ion Pulse Missile, Flechette Torpedo, Flechette Cannon) by making them even less likely to hit by reducing their chance to fire in the first place.

Because it's not intended to be a carbon copy of the BTL-A4 upgrade. Instead, this is essentially a risk/reward mechanic. You can still fire missiles and cannons on their own if you want to - OR you can attempt to double up and fire BOTH your primary and secondary weapons in the same turn, but you need to hit with your primary first in order to do so.

If you just want to Ion a target, fine, just fire your Ion Cannon. If you just want to fire your Concussion Missiles, fine, just fire your Concussion Missiles.

But if you want to potentially do shed loads of damage, fire your primary weapon instead... and then, IF it hits, you get to perform a free second attack (again, provided you still have the required target lock/focus token when it comes to missiles).

Notice this also makes the Gunboats much more effective against slower, low agility targets than it does against fast, high agility targets - which is both thematic and helps balance the upgrade.

FFG will never give you the Gunboat that flies like an x-wing with the same agility and more hull/shields and the ability to BTL-A4 with cannons. Especially for any cost less than 28 or so, before upgrades. Besides since A4 already exists any upgrade that's too close to that won't be allowed.

And FFG also seems to think Imperial fighters are all TIEs.

What's wrong with this gunboat?:

Att 2

Agi 1

Hull 4

Shield 4

Focus, TL, BR

System, cannon. Missile x2

Dial like Y-wing with red turns as white and a bit more green (1 banks).

20 points at PS2.

This seems much more realistic given what we've seen in previous waves.

Maybe a title (0 pts) that reduces cannon upgrade cost by 2. With the system slot you can add AC, FCS or whatever to make a cheap cannon worth it or make the primary more viable.

And FFG also seems to think Imperial fighters are all TIEs.

Yes. It's a VERY ANNOYING HABIT.

What's wrong with this gunboat?:

Well, Agility 1 and the ability to equip Manglers/HLC's for a start. Also it's a bit too tough with 4/4 stats. The inclusion of Barrel Roll is nice, but probably unnecessary as well - the Gunboat handles much more like an X-Wing than a TIE (or a Y-Wing for that matter).

But apart from that, you're good.

I respect the "if it hits" fire-link upgrade, I can see how it would work (and sometimes be difficult with a two-dice primary attack).

However I really would prefer a copy of the Y-Wing title, and I personally think it should come with Ions standard (no choice in the matter, because frankly adding damage on top of something that can equip a Heavy Laser Cannon slides towards unbalanced). I'd stick it right in that 20-23 point PS2 area since it should be comparable to an X-Wing or Kihraxz but with very different role and capacity (like the 23-point PS2 BTL-A4 Y-Wing with Ion Cannon Turret).

I respect the "if it hits" fire-link upgrade, I can see how it would work (and sometimes be difficult with a two-dice primary attack).

However I really would prefer a copy of the Y-Wing title, and I personally think it should come with Ions standard (no choice in the matter, because frankly adding damage on top of something that can equip a Heavy Laser Cannon slides towards unbalanced). I'd stick it right in that 20-23 point PS2 area since it should be comparable to an X-Wing or Kihraxz but with very different role and capacity (like the 23-point PS2 BTL-A4 Y-Wing with Ion Cannon Turret).

I agree entirely - the need to give it a cannon slot is the single biggest issue I have with all the proposals for the XG-1 so far. The Ions are a vital element of it's role, but it simply should not be taking a HLC or Mangler Cannon.

Agree entirely with the role & costs you've outlined as well - it should be the Imperial's cheap, small based Ion option.

And FFG also seems to think Imperial fighters are all TIEs.

Because all the good ones are.

It's not his fault FFGs ridiculously made cannons interchangeable. The Gunboat has Ion Cannons, so it needs to have a Cannon slot.

Because all the good ones are.

...in your erroneous opinion.

It's not his fault FFGs ridiculously made cannons interchangeable. The Gunboat has Ion Cannons, so it needs to have a Cannon slot.

That dogmatic approach shows not only an utter lack of imagination, but a lack of understanding of how this game actually works as well. Boost didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. Cloak didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. Bombs didn't exist in the game until FFG added them. The Segnor's Loop didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. The BTL-A4 title didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. The TIE/X1 title didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. Autothrusters didn't exist in the game until FFG added them.

FFG continues to innovate and evolve the game with every passing wave of releases. The posters on this thread (those who are actually interested and invested in the subject, at least) have managed to come up a number of potential suggestins and solutions for this particular problem, I'm sure FFG can as well, if they choose to do so.

Simple.

Title Card: Fire Linked Weapons

Cost: 2 (or something. Maybe 0? )

Gain a (cannon) slot. You may only equip Cannon Upgrade Cards that cost 5 points or less.

The rest of the text is the same as BTL Y-Wings, only without the turret locking part

XG-1 Assault Gunboat only.

Simple.

Title Card: Fire Linked Weapons

Cost: 2 (or something. Maybe 0? )

Gain a (cannon) slot. You may only equip Cannon Upgrade Cards that cost 5 points or less.

The rest of the text is the same as BTL Y-Wings, only without the turret locking part

XG-1 Assault Gunboat only.

Edit: haha although, before I seem too open-minded, I would really rather a Gunboat that can only have the Primary Lasers + Ions configuration. My own solution was a Primary Ion attack capacity that interacted with attack and defense dice like the proper Primary attacks.

I can't imagine the XG-1 having either boost or barrel roll.

THAT ALONE MAKES IT UNIQUE AMONG IMPERIAL FIGHTERS. Package it with some gunboat only modification that makes it do something gunshippy (like the above fire linking) to make it so people don't often choose the engine upgrade.

Fire linking, 1 point. After your ship fires a primary weapon, it may fire either a missile or an ION cannon if equipped.

The beauty here is that you aren't removing the ability to take other modifications, you just know they'll pick that - if they use an ion cannon. Still flexible, but bonus for default loadout.

I've been playing a lot of elite dangerous recently, because.... oh it has space ships, who needs any other reason?

And gimballed cannons are a.thing. Given it's a gunboat, maybe an apache/hind like approach of having a 180 degree fire arc at the front for gun or turret, and give it a y-wing like dial?

mobile and agile this thing ain't. tough this thing is, and i've got nothing against possible re-imaginations.

Now, it's guns should probably be fixed rather than gimballed, but it's a point to remember there are lots of possibilities. This ship is truly awesome, and not every imperial fighter was a TIE. In fact, we've seen some truly terrible TIE Variants, some even make the interpunisheggcarton look like works of art.

....and done.

....and done.

I personally think that LFA should be a mod so that FCS can be equipped. Also, what about unique pilots?

....and done.

I personally think that LFA should be a mod so that FCS can be equipped. Also, what about unique pilots?

Eh, I don't generally like titles except for the notable individual craft we care about (Falcon, Slave I, Outrider) from the movies or EU. I like the use of titles as diversifying design space, à la the BTL-A4 option for the Y-Wing. I dislike the use of titles to fix mistakes that perhaps shouldn't have occurred in the first place (TIE/ad X1 unfortunately, even though it's a brilliant fix). I want titles to be reserved for something special ("I'm flying THE Outrider!") or a specific gameplay/tactical choice (Y-Wing as turret platform or dogfighter!). I'd rather Mods or other slots be occupied for things like the Gunboat Laser/Ion Fire-Linked attack, where you are specifically choosing to gain an ability or play style.

I'm sure if they DO release the Gunboat, we will be pleasantly surprised by how they handle it; everything since Wave II has been that way for me. I enjoy all the speculation, and have done quite a bit of it myself, but in the end we still have to wait and see if it's even coming out. I can't wait for the Wave VIII announcement.

That dogmatic approach shows not only an utter lack of imagination, but a lack of understanding of how this game actually works as well. Boost didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. Cloak didn't exist in the game until FFG added it. Bombs didn't exist in the game until FFG added them.

Yes, but Ion Cannons DO exist in this game, and they operate a specific way, that you have some problem with. So you want to make up some kind of completely new rule system instead of just using the Ion Cannons as they are already implemented, because of what other cannons people might put on the Gunboat, even though it's not a problem for any other ship with a cannon slot.

Let's deal with the important stuff first:

Put both cards together as a title. Why complicate things.

Because how many upgrade cards in the game can you name which perform two completely different functions at the same time like that would? How many upgrade cards allow you to both equip an upgrade that's not on the ship card and modify an attack at the same time?

The vast majority of upgrade cards in the game have one, specific function. Hence, two cards for two different functions. One to allow a particular upgrade, one to (potentially) modify an attack.

Plus, having them together as one card is potentially overpowered - especially when you consider combining the mechanic with an Accuracy Corrector or Fire Control System (neither of which can be taken alongside the Linked Firing Array in it's current form).

Now, what else... oh... right .

*snip* Except that using the cannon slot for cannons isn't a problem for anyone except you... *snip*

Just to highlight the hypocrisy of the above statement...

I think the idea of Cannon slots and Turret slots was a bad idea in the first place. Those things are a fundamental part of a ship model and it's identity. The fact that you can just mix and match them is stupid.

Taking the two ion cannons off the wings of a TIE Defender and replacing it with a big ol' laser bazooka is just dumb.

Ships with Ion Cannons should have looked something like this:

And other guns with other strange properties would have other symbols next to their attack numbers.

Hostility aside, the cards look great. Are you using some kind of program to make them, or is it just, like, photoshop?

Hostility aside, Strange Eons. There's a thread in the main forum, look it up.

^Hostility aside, you have to understand that the Imperial Navy fields nothing but TIEs and TIE accessories, and any other ships they claim to field are nothing but Rebel propaganda.

also Strange Eons is goat

^Hostility aside, you have to understand that the Imperial Navy fields nothing but TIEs and TIE accessories, and any other ships they claim to field are nothing but Rebel propaganda.

Indeed. I hear they're even putting Interceptor wings on Star Destroyers these days! Where will the madness end?

I don't know. I would have never thought on the Lambda shuttle carrying ion or flechette cannons either, but there it is. The Gunboat had a clear role in the videogames, and here it can also have it if you equip the ion cannon on it.

But that doesn't mean that it should be the only one role for the ship in this game. One of the finest traits of this game is that the customization and combination of upgrades by the players can take a ship to unsuspected new grounds. I believe there is not really a good reason why the Gunboat shouldn't carry any kind of cannon.

• In 1993, when the first X-Wing game was made, Larry Holland and Peter Lincroft made both energy weapon type and ordnance type fix traits of every craft.
• One year later, in TIE Fighter, ships had replaceable ordnance, and also optional tractor or decoy beam weapons, and optional shield systems.
• In 1997, in X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, all craft had customizable ordnance load, beam weapons, and the new countermeasures systems.

What I try to say with this is:

• Most of the descriptions for the different ships that were gathered during the years in encyclopedias and guides, and eventually became pseudo-canon, came from this series of sims.
• As any software series, the later versions added more features for the simple fact that the developers had not thought on them before. The possible customization of the ships increased almost in a linear fashion as time went by. If X-Wing Alliance had not been the last in the series, they would have likely come with selectable energy weapons, engine upgrades, etc.

That is precisely what FFG with the cannon upgrade. Rather than choosing a fix set of energy weapons, they gave the choice to the players, about what to do with the non-standard energy weapons that every craft carried. That led to a bigger design space, and also a broader set of choices for the players, that in a squad building game can only be positive.

If a TIE Defender can change its ordnance launchers, equip a beam weapon, and even replace its engine with the Mark II, why cannot it replace the ion cannons with something else? Why cannot the Gunboat do the same?

What's wrong with this gunboat?:

Att 2

Agi 1

Hull 4

Shield 4

Focus, TL, BR

System, cannon. Missile x2

Dial like Y-wing with red turns as white and a bit more green (1 banks).

20 points at PS2.

HLC glue.

Just to highlight the hypocrisy of the above statement...

Yes, I think that making cannons and turrets upgrade slots was stupid.

But I also accept that that's the way they made the game, and there's nothing I can do about it.

I'm not trying to break apart the game's mechanics to implement things that are already implemented in the game.