Thankfully my new Librarian became quite active in trying to understand the rules, so here I am again with the next force weapon question.

So, in Core Rulebook, you can hand out additional psychic damage after a successful hit by doing an Opposed Focus Power test, adding d10 damage after every DoS. Errata rules that to make the additional psychic energy damage after scoring a hit, one has to choose the power level. How does that modify the possible damage?

The way I understand it, the extra damage is still d10 per DoS on the opposed test, this was not cancelled explicitly in Errata. Psy Rating bonus (PRx5) to Focus Power Test is constant and flat, so setting the power level normally only modifies PR when counting the effects (and perils) of a Psychic Power Action. I really don't see how does it affect the actual number of dice thrown, which still depends only on DoS. Any ideas?

Edit: This thread touched upon the subject, and cleared up that PR adds a constant PRx5 bonus to FPT, but never explicitly answered my dilemma: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/36429-force-weapon-question/page-3

All Focus Power Tests are Willpower rolls where your Target Number is [Willpower + (PR x5)]. The PR multiplier depends on the level the power is manifest at.

Triggering the Force weapon effect "requires a Focus Power Test using Opposed Willpower." It's still a Focus Power test and thus still depends on choosing a power level to figure out your ultimate PR and thus your TN. The damage bonus is determined by number of DoS, so the higher your TN is, the more likely you are to get multiple DoS on a roll.

Example. Willpower 50, PR 4 Librarian.

Fettered = TN 60 [50 + (2x5)]

Unfettered = TN 70 [50 + [4x5]]

Push = TN 85 [50+ (7x5)]

Make sense?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you can also use psy rating bonuses and pushes to stupidly broken levels.

Assume a Psyker has a WP of 60 and he has Psy Rating 10.

I don't think there's anything in the core book which explicitly caps modifiers for tests, the chary just says that +60 is trivial but doesn't say "THIS CANNOT GO HIGHER" unless it was errata'ed in only the general rule that you still have to roll less than your skill value and that the 95-00 is always a failure. If I'm wrong, page reference me. As far as I'm also aware, stats above 100 count for degrees of success achieved.

So Psyker has WP of 60, he uses a power at Psy Rating 10 which means effectively his WP for the opposed test is 10*5 (+50) so it's 110 on a D100. Add +3 to the Psy Rating for pushing, jumps it to 125. Add another point because theres a talent the name I forget which adds +1PR when you push to make 130.

So you would be rolling less than 130 WP on a D100...Lots of success degrees.

It's generally accepted that +60 is the maximum, albeit this is nowhere explicitly stated.

The Librarian will automatically trigger Perils on that roll BTW.

Risk of nasty peril of the warp

-vs-

Silly high number of damage dice and sparky death for an enemy.

Sparky death all the way.

Risk of nasty peril of the warp

-vs-

Silly high number of damage dice and sparky death for an enemy.

Sparky death all the way.

In fairness, the DW psychic "threat" rules are super weaksauce. Ain't no real threat there when proccing phenomena is unlikely unless you Push and even if you proc Phenom but not Perils, there's a…what…Rank 1 or 2 Talent that lets you automatically set Phenom results (unless the Phenom roll goes to Perils) into something fluffy and innocuous.

All Focus Power Tests are Willpower rolls where your Target Number is [Willpower + (PR x5)]. The PR multiplier depends on the level the power is manifest at.

Triggering the Force weapon effect "requires a Focus Power Test using Opposed Willpower." It's still a Focus Power test and thus still depends on choosing a power level to figure out your ultimate PR and thus your TN. The damage bonus is determined by number of DoS, so the higher your TN is, the more likely you are to get multiple DoS on a roll.

Example. Willpower 50, PR 4 Librarian.

Fettered = TN 60 [50 + (2x5)]

Unfettered = TN 70 [50 + [4x5]]

Push = TN 85 [50+ (7x5)]

Make sense?

This is all spot on.

Yes it does mean it can get difficult to pose a challenge to a munchkined (or just high ranked) librarian. Just one effect of the psyker rules in DW. They do need a re-address, haven't come up with anything I'm to thrilled about myself so...

I don't think there's anything in the core book which explicitly caps modifiers for tests, the chary just says that +60 is trivial but doesn't say "THIS CANNOT GO HIGHER" unless it was errata'ed in only the general rule that you still have to roll less than your skill value and that the 95-00 is always a failure. If I'm wrong, page reference me. As far as I'm also aware, stats above 100 count for degrees of success achieved.

Well, I think this part in Core Rulebook, p. 185 is relevant: You may add a bonus to your Focus Power Test equal to 5 times the Psy Rating used for the power. A Focus Power roll of 91-00 always fails.

While the rule doesn't put a cap on the modifier itself (thus it cannot prevent stupidly high DoS), at least it gives some room for failure.

All Focus Power Tests are Willpower rolls where your Target Number is [Willpower + (PR x5)]. The PR multiplier depends on the level the power is manifest at.

Triggering the Force weapon effect "requires a Focus Power Test using Opposed Willpower." It's still a Focus Power test and thus still depends on choosing a power level to figure out your ultimate PR and thus your TN. The damage bonus is determined by number of DoS, so the higher your TN is, the more likely you are to get multiple DoS on a roll.

...

Make sense?

It does now, thanks - the PR multiplier being dependent on the power level was the missing piece. I'm really grateful for the help I continue to get here, guys.

Page 244, Core:

"The maximum total bonus that can be applied to a test is +60. Conversely, the maximum total penalty that can be applied to a test is -60."

Technically though this is only in the context of an actual attack roll explaining the total +/- bonuses to actually hitting someone. Outside of combat there doesn't appear to be any caps. For example going across the books to Black Crusade, they have +70 and -70 modifiers for infamy tests for stupidly common and stupidly rare gear.

Different FFG lines being inconsistent? Perish the though!

Shh! The writers will hear you and make everything balanced and logical!

The rule does not state "attack rolls have a cap," it states "a test has a cap."

Keep that in mind as you also apply the common sense rule.

Technically though this is only in the context of an actual attack roll explaining the total +/- bonuses to actually hitting someone. Outside of combat there doesn't appear to be any caps. For example going across the books to Black Crusade, they have +70 and -70 modifiers for infamy tests for stupidly common and stupidly rare gear.

This is true, but the BC Availability list is the ONLY place this happens in the entire line of 5 games.

Either way then you can argue it as a non clarified point or a house rule which makes for some nice silly high damage numbers. Always good to give a player a chuckle!

Away from +60 to -60:

Can i use the Psychic extra Damage for Force weapons more often than once per turn?(Counterattack, Swiftattack etc)

That would be something i am very interessted in!

If I can recall it correctly (and I don't have the books ready at the moment, mind you), you can use the extra damage every time the weapon normally makes a hit and you roll for damage. If it touches flesh, you can channel the baleful energies of the Warp at will

Away from +60 to -60:

Can i use the Psychic extra Damage for Force weapons more often than once per turn?(Counterattack, Swiftattack etc)

That would be something i am very interessted in!

Arguably no. First, you can only channel it every time you hit and do damage as it suggests on P155 of core. So if you aren't harming them then no dice.

In addition to normal Damage, whenever a psyker damages an opponent, he may, as a Free Action, channel psychic force and killing will into the blade.

Then added in the 1.1 Errata:

Power Format (page 189): Add the following sentence to the Action entry: “If the power targets an opponent or does damage to an opponent, the power gains the Attack Subtype (see page 237), and thus cannot be combined with other Attack Subtype actions (such as Full-Auto Burst or Semi-Auto Burst, and so on).

Since force weapons power does do damage to a target and it is confirmed as a focus power test (with varying power levels), it technically gains Attack sub type so you cant use it twice or more on the same turn. To be fair even if you could our lot play on a flat "no" rule, because two or even three uses of this can do obscene amounts of damage in one turn. As a reaction to a counter attack...up to you.

Grim got it on the nose. Can't use 2 attack subtype powers in a turn.

Rules aside as well it's more the balance aspect. Consider how nasty a full power librarian could be with this if it could be used multiple times per turn. Lets imagine a rough average of say five degrees of success on opposed willpower (plucking number out the air) and if you could use it for every hit of lightning attack.

Three lots of five D10's. Anywhere between 5 and 50 damage ignoring armour and toughness with potentials on any of those 15 dice to Righteous Fury with an extra 1D10 damage if so. Probably again an average maybe say 90-100 damage (assuming an odd righteous) on ONE action.

Yes, i would see it also this way, but:

Power Format (page 189):

Add the following sentence to

the Action entry:

“If the power targets an opponent or does damage

to an opponent, the power gains the Attack Subtype (see page 237),

and thus cannot be combined with other Attack Subtype actions (such

as Full-Auto Burst or Semi-Auto Burst, and so on)

would also mean, that it cannot be combined with Lightning attack? Or am i wrong there?

Can i use the Psychic extra Damage for Force weapons more often than once per turn?(Counterattack, Swiftattack etc)

That would be something i am very interessted in!

Yes you can.

Then added in the 1.1 Errata:

Power Format (page 189): Add the following sentence to the Action entry: “If the power targets an opponent or does damage to an opponent, the power gains the Attack Subtype (see page 237), and thus cannot be combined with other Attack Subtype actions (such as Full-Auto Burst or Semi-Auto Burst, and so on).

Since force weapons power does do damage to a target and it is confirmed as a focus power test (with varying power levels), it technically gains Attack sub type so you cant use it twice or more on the same turn. To be fair even if you could our lot play on a flat "no" rule, because two or even three uses of this can do obscene amounts of damage in one turn. As a reaction to a counter attack...up to you.

Sorry but I think you misinterpreted that rule because you can't use a Psychic Power and a melee attack in the same round, yet you can use a power sword's psychic pulse the same time as you make an attack; thus it is not counted as an Attack Subtype.

The psychic pulse is a "Free Action" and not bound by the action subtype rule because if it were you would not be able to make an Attack and then use the psychic pulse in the same round making it useless. And the rules for Free Actions are on PG 236:

Fair point Theofonias. The point though was more to state that it is an offensive psychic power and you cant use two offensive powers at the same time. The bit about it negating an actual attack was me not cutting that part out!

However I would still disagree with multiple uses purely on a balance reason, Tabletop rules IIRC (at least in 5th ed) only said that no matter how many attacks in CC you get you can only make one of them a force weapon strike.