Again I suggest adding a couple points to the base static damage bonus. I'll be testing this soon as my DW game is going up against some CSMs for the first time since we implemented errata rules.

And as always if the players feel likely to encounter such enemies on-mission, requisitioning appropriate ammo to better deal with them.

The biggest issue with DW is and has been the first couple books coming out before BC/OW, the later books coming out subsequently and trying to adopt some of BC/OW game design without implementing effective errata to bring the prior books and mechanical concepts properly in line. Also FFG being bound to the terrible issues in DH 1e for all its subsequent lines.

Again I suggest adding a couple points to the base static damage bonus. I'll be testing this soon as my DW game is going up against some CSMs for the first time since we implemented errata rules.

And as always if the players feel likely to encounter such enemies on-mission, requisitioning appropriate ammo to better deal with them.

The biggest issue with DW is and has been the first couple books coming out before BC/OW, the later books coming out subsequently and trying to adopt some of BC/OW game design without implementing effective errata to bring the prior books and mechanical concepts properly in line. Also FFG being bound to the terrible issues in DH 1e for all its subsequent lines.

What I had some success with doing was keeping the pre-errata stats while incorporating the BC/OW combat rules. This worked pretty well, because the weapons are still churning out lots of damage but the full auto issue (which was what really made things over the top) is gone.

However then there was the enormous pain in the ass of figuring out how to adjust the talents and so forth and it just wasn't worth it.

I tried that, the heavy bolter was still a powerhouse for my Devastator. I admit that with OW rules and errata stats, I worry that he now feels kinda underpowered.

Math time!

Average damage per attack using pre- and post-errata heavy bolters, using Deathwatch rules and BC/OW rules.

I am assuming Short Range. The attacker has a BS of 50. In the case of BC/OW rules, he makes a Half-Action Aim. The target is a Trygon from Mark of the Xenos (TB12 AP10), which is Massive.

First, pre-errata heavy bolter using Deathwatch rules.

Chance to hit is BS50 + 10 for range + 20 for full auto + 30 for size = 110%. Average damage per attack is 13 (I think) + 10 = 23 – TB12 – AP4 = 7.

Mr. Math says that average damage per attack is 44.8.

Second, pre-errata heavy bolter using BC/OW rules.

Chance to hit is BS50 + 10 for range + 10 for aim + 30 for size = 100 – 20 for full auto = 80%. Average damage per attack is the same.

Mr. Math says that average damage per attack is 25.2.

Third, post-errata heavy bolter using Deathwatch rules.

Chance to hit is BS50 + 10 for range + 20 for full auto + 30 for size = 110%. Average damage per attack is 7.5 + 12 = 19.5 – TB12 – AP5 = 2.5.

Mr. Math says that average damage per attack is 12.5.

Fourth, post-errata heavy bolter using BC/OW rules.

Chance to hit is BS50 + 10 for range + 10 for aim + 30 for size = 100 – 20 for full auto = 80%. Average damage per attack is, again, 2.5.

Mr. Math says that average damage per attack is 8.25.

For purposes of comparison, whether using DW or BC/OW rules, the average damage per attack of a krak missile is 10.8 (and it has a 100% chance to hit). (Using the stats for a BC krak missile, since I don't remember the Deathwatch stats offhand.)

NOTE: I have NOT calculated the effect of the minimum 1 damage on 1 dice per DoS, or the effect of Righteous Fury, or the possibilty of Jamming.

In any case, as you can see, the difference between a pre-errata HB using Deathwatch rules and a post-errata HB using Black Crusade rules is immense -- it goes from almost 45 Wounds to about 8!

And how many Wounds does the Trygon have? I don't want to have to field 2-3 Trygons for the KT to have a challenge with that heavy bolter around, with there being 3-4 other players trying to act and shine too.

And how many Wounds does the Trygon have? I don't want to have to field 2-3 Trygons for the KT to have a challenge with that heavy bolter around, with there being 3-4 other players trying to act and shine too.

I made a slight math error up above, which I fixed.

A Trygon has 160 Wounds. So using the pre-errata bolter with DW rules, it will go down in an average of 5 rounds. Using the post-errata bolter with BC/OW rules, it will go down in an average of just over 19 rounds. (Using almost half of its backpack ammo supply?)

However, none of this factors in Righteous Fury. (Or Jamming.)

(BTW, it will go down to a pre-errata lascannon in about 7 rounds and to a post-errata one in about 6. It takes 15 rounds from a krak missile to kill it! Well to get it into Crits.)

What bothers me is Eldar adversaries having 30+ Wounds. Wha? Obviously all those Talents and Traits aren't good enough. Ever wonder why?

What bothers me is Eldar adversaries having 30+ Wounds.

Because Wounds are converted pretty directly over from TT, more or less.

Personally I feel that taking anything more from the TT than the unit's general role and fluff is a big mistake. The mechanics systems don't relate well and are built off of entirely different premises. An IG unit in the TT is supposed to be able to take out a Hive Tyrant in the end. No such chance in the RPG.

Personally I feel that taking anything more from the TT than the unit's general role and fluff is a big mistake. The mechanics systems don't relate well and are built off of entirely different premises. An IG unit in the TT is supposed to be able to take out a Hive Tyrant in the end. No such chance in the RPG.

An IG unit is presumably a horde, so it can -- as it can if you use the BC/OW Righteous Fury rules without it being a Horde, or let NPCs in Deathwatch use RF.

I just did some back of the envelope calculations, and a 10-man squad of Guardmen pumping shots into a MotX Carnifex that is nice enough to just sit there and let them do it will kill it in about 40 rounds (= a little over 3 minutes) via Righteous Fury. Assuming it somehow has lost Regeneration.

They'll have to reload their guns though!

Are you talking Horde of Magnitude 10? Because I don't think they can scratch it unless they get bonus d10s from being Magnitude 20-30+.

A Horde of whatever size you feel like. Personally I would set 1 Guardsman = 2 Magnitude, so 10 would be 20 Magnitude.

But my rough math was for 10 individual Guardsmen, assuming the BC/OW rules.

(10 Guardsmen will hit something that size an average of something 25 times a turn, 2.5 of those will RF, which will cause the Carnie to lose a Wound each time, causing it to hit Crits in something like 40 turns.

100 Guardsmen will, correspondingly, kill it in about 4 turns.)

Oh, that RF rule, right.

Yeah there's no point in discussing individually rolling for 100 guardsmen under the RPG rules because in practice that just isn't going to happen. I mention Hordes with the linear increased number of attacks per turn and potential +2d10 damage added to each volley.

Well yeah of course.

I'm just saying that you do actually have the same general effect as in TT -- massed infantry (emphasis on "mass") will kill giant critters.

100 Guardsmen is 2 full TT infantry platoons -- two Troops choices.

3d10 will do it too though (max damage 33, damage soak 28). Although again it will take a long time.

I swear to f@!king god I see this argument every single time someone mentions pre-errata vs. post-errata.

"They make things Bolter proof!"

"Some things are supposed to be Bolter proof!"

Circle jerkkkkkkkk.

It's the opposite of a circle jerk, which is when people all agree with each other.

If you could strain reality perhaps and infer one step further, the circle jerk is people frothing at the mouth over their particular view point and others getting behind one side or the other.

So un, any other tips for a new GM?

Or was that pretty much it?

That was pretty solid advice.

Did you have a particular question that you were looking to have answered? Throw us a bone and we will throw you one back.

Read the CRB back to front. Then do it again. There are a ton of spot-rules and tables and charts that are in a stupid place (ie not following the rule that mentions said chart or table) and just knowing that information will be a huge help. Also, get the Gamemaster's kit and screen. That screen, although it is pre-errata, really helps speed things a long.

So un, any other tips for a new GM?

Or was that pretty much it?

One other thing that I am not sure was mentioned.

The way Righteous Fury works in the rulebook is generally believed to be a grave grave mistake and has been errated. You only get +1d10, not an extra roll of the whole damage.

So un, any other tips for a new GM?

Or was that pretty much it?

One other thing that I am not sure was mentioned.

The way Righteous Fury works in the rulebook is generally believed to be a grave grave mistake and has been errated. You only get +1d10, not an extra roll of the whole damage.

Oh, i already thought it worked that way :-)

One piece of advice I would give to a new GM of Deathwatch and to pass on to PCs is to remember that there are only 1 million marines in the entire Galaxy (more or less). Given the countless trillions that exist in the Imperium this makes every individual marine pretty unique. There is no such thing as generic tacical marine #7. Each PC should realise that he represents 1/1000th of the honour of his Chapter. His choices matter far more profoundly than any of the other WH40K lines.

There are two sides to this:

• A Marine Chapter generally will not write off any marine as disposable. If he is betrayed, killed or whatever then his Chapter will seek toavenge him as best they can.
• When he fails his Chapter fails. A marine is indoctrinated that to fail is to sin. There isn't a process of discussing career progression or training opportunities with your manager, If you fail then you need to atone.

All this leads up to my ultimate point that Marines are important people.

This has upsides.

When Assault Marine Calixtus arrives at Imperial World Blahblah IX and requests access to the governors personal astropath to send a message to the Inquisition it will likely happen pretty **** quickly.

It has downsides

When Assault Marine Calixtus finds himself outmatched by a Hive Tyrant and realises he needs to fall back it may be a perfectly sensible decision and not dishonourable (you can't succeed if your dead). However any witnesses will see the Angel of the Imperium unable to meet the xenos menace head on. What do you think that would do to the faith of an indoctrinated citizen who has been told that the Adeptus Astartes can defeat anything and defend humanity agains the xenos threat? Now imagine that it isn't a single Imperial Citizen but a preacher, or a backwater governor or the incident has somehow been broadcasted across a Hive City. A faith shattered can turn to insurrection.

An extreme example but I guess what I was trying to get at is when GMing deathwatch my advice would be to avoid it becoming 'Delta Force in Power Armour'. In the Imperium War is politics and War is religion. The Adeptus Astartes are exemplars of both. They should act accordingly.

Since the errata'd weapon stats are more or less loosely inspired by my considerations here http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/37819-adjusting-dw-weapon-stats-more-to-the-40k-tabletop-stats/ I feel I have to point one thing out in defense of the errata:

Some of you are comparing the weapons to certain critters and conclude that the weapons are not modeled right. However, it's not the weapon stats that are the problem - those critters that have been modeled incorrectly are. In particular, Unnatural Toughness (x3) poses a problem. I recommend to start by changing "Unnatural Toughness (x3)" to "Toughness +10 and Unnatural Toughness (x2)".

The weapon stats work very well with the Core Rulebook. Later supplements might introduce occasional hiccups (chapter or xeno rules).

Alex