Or not ... at all.

Really? Can't see Captain Rex done up like this?

Nope. Wrong franchise.

I do think Clones atoning for their role in Order 66 is a good angle though.

It's an angle...

It's an angle...

Dear god, don't anger it!

Incidentally, this does open up Disaffected Clone fighting for the Alliance as a character type for AoR.

It was never NOT available as a character type for either EotE or AoR. Clone desertions and post-Clone Wars clone retirees are both canonical occurrences in the EU. The EU even includes a McGuffin to get rid of the advanced aging. As are clones who were either doubtful of Order 66 at the time or after, or outright refused to execute it (mostly clone commandoes and ARC troopers with their enhanced independence).

Wasn't Rex one of the ones who shot at his Jedi commanders? Wasn't he one of the ones created with the inherent programming/training/brainwashing to be loyal to Palpatine?

Pretty much all Fett clones were altered by the Kaminoans (at the order of Jedi Master Syfo-Dyas, who started the whole "cloning an army" thing in like 31 BBY) to be more obedient than the base stock DNA used to make the clones (Jango Fett).

Even the commanders were instilled with loyalty to the Republic and as the program progressed, a number of special codes were trained into the clones that they would accept unconditionally if the terms were met (including Order 66 - and a number of these scenarios were written for the GAR to have an easy, automatic response to a huge crisis in the chain of command, i.e. the Supreme Chancellor was killed or captured, the Jedi turned on the Senate, etc).

Some special forces units (Null- and Alpha-class ARCs and clone commandoes, in order from most- to least-independent of the "more independent" types) were allowed to be bred with more independence in order to better fulfill the types of missions they'd have to handle.

Yeah, if you weren't watching, canon is that a non-rogue Jedi Master set up the breeding of a secret organic army, trained from combat while children and with a lifespan cut short by accelerated aging, forced and indeed driven to fight without being given a choice to do so. He did this foreseeing a lot of trouble for the Republic with its lack of a standing military. Sometime the ends justify the means, even for Jedi.

Wasn't Rex one of the ones who shot at his Jedi commanders? Wasn't he one of the ones created with the inherent programming/training/brainwashing to be loyal to Palpatine?

So imagine how guilty he will feel once it wears off and he sees what he has done to his beloved Republic.

I wasn't aware it did wear off. Ever. In fact, I'm pretty sure that, if it did, the clones in the 501st would have turned on Lord Vader. Odd that none of them did, isn't it?

Rex hasn't appeared in anything that featured Order 66 or later, so we don't know if he carried it out or not. Considering his character development in late Clone Wars, he seemed way more independant minded than other clones, so I could see him having defected rather than carry it out.

Keep in mind that the Clone Wars cartoon showed that some clones, even ones that were bred for a low willpower, could overcome it and change, it just wasn't often.

Part of the new fluff is that the Empire replaced the clones with human stormtroopers because the Humans turned out to be more easily controlled. And the clones have become disaffected, with only a few left training Stormtroopers. Make of that what you will.

Well, to each their own. In some people's games, they might be prone to fits of guilt or a need for redemption; in other people's they'll probably remain as easily dominated and controlled as they were (by and large) bred to be.

Wasn't Rex one of the ones who shot at his Jedi commanders? Wasn't he one of the ones created with the inherent programming/training/brainwashing to be loyal to Palpatine?

So imagine how guilty he will feel once it wears off and he sees what he has done to his beloved Republic.

I don't think you understand the effects of real-world concepts like jingoism, the need for order and command obeisance in military command hierarchy, or leaders with strong, state-backed personality cults. Let alone sci-fi stuff like a predilection for obedience being hard-coded on a genetic level.

Put another way, Order 66 was legal within the Old Republic's military command framework, thus most clones executed it unhesitatingly. Some felt betrayed by the Jedi; they had been told, after all, that the Jedi attempted to kill the (lawfully-elected) Supreme Chancellor (who was lawfully given emergency powers by the Galactic Senate) - which was in fact true, minus the omission that the Supreme Chancellor was a Dark Lord of the Sith...not that they would really understand what that meant anyway.

Many would never question that order. Some did, and certainly a PC can, but by canon, clones like Commander Cody and most of the commandoes and ARCs executed Order 66, continued service as stormtroopers, and never felt a qualm about it.

Keep in mind also that the only Republic the clones ever knew was the one ruled by Palpatine possessing emergency powers. In lieu of the "Jedi coup" it would make sense for national security to be tightened and the military built up to avoid another military crisis like the Clone Wars from igniting if the Separatists found their footing again, especially with the possible "remnants of the Jedi" and their sympathizers lurking to fulfill their "coup" when the galaxy least expects it.

I failed my sanity check by trying to read this stupid thread.

I don't think you understand the effects of real-world concepts like jingoism, the need for order and command obeisance in military command hierarchy, or leaders with strong, state-backed personality cults. Let alone sci-fi stuff like a predilection for obedience being hard-coded on a genetic level.

Put another way, Order 66 was legal within the Old Republic's military command framework, thus most clones executed it unhesitatingly. Some felt betrayed by the Jedi; they had been told, after all, that the Jedi attempted to kill the (lawfully-elected) Supreme Chancellor (who was lawfully given emergency powers by the Galactic Senate) - which was in fact true, minus the omission that the Supreme Chancellor was a Dark Lord of the Sith...not that they would really understand what that meant anyway.

Many would never question that order. Some did, and certainly a PC can, but by canon, clones like Commander Cody and most of the commandoes and ARCs executed Order 66, continued service as stormtroopers, and never felt a qualm about it.

Keep in mind also that the only Republic the clones ever knew was the one ruled by Palpatine possessing emergency powers. In lieu of the "Jedi coup" it would make sense for national security to be tightened and the military built up to avoid another military crisis like the Clone Wars from igniting if the Separatists found their footing again, especially with the possible "remnants of the Jedi" and their sympathizers lurking to fulfill their "coup" when the galaxy least expects it.

This.

I don't think you understand the effects of real-world concepts like jingoism, the need for order and command obeisance in military command hierarchy, or leaders with strong, state-backed personality cults. Let alone sci-fi stuff like a predilection for obedience being hard-coded on a genetic level.

Put another way, Order 66 was legal within the Old Republic's military command framework, thus most clones executed it unhesitatingly. Some felt betrayed by the Jedi; they had been told, after all, that the Jedi attempted to kill the (lawfully-elected) Supreme Chancellor (who was lawfully given emergency powers by the Galactic Senate) - which was in fact true, minus the omission that the Supreme Chancellor was a Dark Lord of the Sith...not that they would really understand what that meant anyway.

Many would never question that order. Some did, and certainly a PC can, but by canon, clones like Commander Cody and most of the commandoes and ARCs executed Order 66, continued service as stormtroopers, and never felt a qualm about it.

Keep in mind also that the only Republic the clones ever knew was the one ruled by Palpatine possessing emergency powers. In lieu of the "Jedi coup" it would make sense for national security to be tightened and the military built up to avoid another military crisis like the Clone Wars from igniting if the Separatists found their footing again, especially with the possible "remnants of the Jedi" and their sympathizers lurking to fulfill their "coup" when the galaxy least expects it.

This.

x2

Heh heh. I like how Erik is asking for stormtroopers to be toned down like the Rebels cartoon is the new G-canon for Star Wars. The Clone Wars is only T-canon and Rebels will also fall in that level at best. Only the new movies will have G-canon relevance. Cherry pick away now.

Just came to mind didn't there were 2 types of clones in the end of Clone Wars if you read your EU.

Kaminoan clones - accelerated growth, live training.

Spaarti Clones - full grown, flash memory stamped.

Memory serving corretcly Spaarti grown where s***t comperad to Kaminoan clones and only loyal to the Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine.

Just came to mind didn't there were 2 types of clones in the end of Clone Wars if you read your EU.

Kaminoan clones - accelerated growth, live training.

Spaarti Clones - full grown, flash memory stamped.

Memory serving corretcly Spaarti grown where s***t comperad to Kaminoan clones and only loyal to the Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine.

That's correct. These are all Fett clones. Other genotypes of clones (i.e. using non-Fett DNA) were added and bred with Spaarti cylinders post-Clone Wars.

Also their combat strategy was in the line of lemmings just running towards enemy and getting gunned down by hundreds. Also they started to get little bit cuckoo in their heads.

Those were, remembering, few of the reasons why Empire stopped using Clone troopers and started to recruit people to Imperial Army

I read it back in the 90ies, but wasn't a huge fan. I was happy that there was more Star Wars, but I didn't really care much for it. I really am not big on a lot of the EU, but I won't hold it against anyone who enjoys it.

This for me too. I did like the WEG RPG, and I enjoyed the Thrawn books, though (as someone else said) it never really felt like the movies, more like 'LotR in space'.

I find the EU bloated and contradictory, so I mostly ignore it, and hate the prequels with a passion. That said, Chortles has been cherry-picking some of the best bits of the EU for me, and pointing me in the direction of some good stuff I can modify for my game!

Also... much of what makes the movies fun and watchable is really bad for an RPG... This is the same problem with any game set in an established universe with a ton of 'canon'.

Heh heh. I like how Erik is asking for stormtroopers to be toned down like the Rebels cartoon is the new G-canon for Star Wars. The Clone Wars is only T-canon and Rebels will also fall in that level at best. Only the new movies will have G-canon relevance. Cherry pick away now.

That presumes Disney does't just do away with the distinction.

That is l

Heh heh. I like how Erik is asking for stormtroopers to be toned down like the Rebels cartoon is the new G-canon for Star Wars. The Clone Wars is only T-canon and Rebels will also fall in that level at best. Only the new movies will have G-canon relevance. Cherry pick away now.

That presumes Disney does't just do away with the distinction.

That is like saying Disney would do away with the color blue.

It is not Disney that makes the distinction.