Really? I think you could at least have a debate about it but dear holy god almighty is that not what I want Star Wars to be about and I don't think FFG and Disney will either.

This word debate - I do not think it means what you think it means.

Also relevant:

Also for the billionth time no one here thinks that!!!

Really? I think you could at least have a debate about it but dear holy god almighty is that not what I want Star Wars to be about and I don't think FFG and Disney will either.

Frankly, I am simply tired of your continual hijacking of threads to have this "debate".

Why not simply limit it to a single thread? Is it perhaps they keep getting locked by FFG? We all know your position. How many threads with just this nickname have you regaled upon just this one belief? Now please let other people calmly and rationally discuss topics that are similar and related but not the same tired diatribe.

Thank you.

Well, has anyone else listened to the podcast in the OP?

Mr. Filoni suggests Obi Wan is blowing smoke up Lukes backside when he says only stormtroopers are so precise as there is no other evidence in the movies for them being any good.

Part of the problem is that people keep replying. I'm guilty of this myself. It's no coincidence that three of the top four threads on this board are started by the same person. This type of inflammatory baiting is very much intentional. You'll never "win" any of these discussions, because the instigator isn't approaching the discussion in good faith.

So rather than giving a troll the attention it so craves, simply refrain. Don't reply, report . Especially when threats and profanities start getting tossed around. Our community need not be a caustic place.

Well, has anyone else listened to the podcast in the OP?

Mr. Filoni suggests Obi Wan is blowing smoke up Lukes backside when he says only stormtroopers are so precise as there is no other evidence in the movies for them being any good.

I actually like Desslok's listing of how the movies showed their skill and training. That said, it could be lies that Ben told Luke. After all, its not like he forgot to tell him about his daddy.

Edit - That may seem contradictory. I like how Desslok showed how they are skilled professionals. The whole concept of Stormtrooper though almost gains an unbeatable mystique and warriors rarely do anything other than talk up their opponents after the fight. Ben could be doing just that.

My personal opinion is that they are highly trained special forces used by the Empire. Just as described in the book and most media that I have seen. Admittedly I avoid a lot of EU. The whole incompetent stormtrooper motif really only came around because it would be bad to have the main characters slaughtered by the villains.

Part of the problem is that people keep replying. I'm guilty of this myself. It's no coincidence that three of the top four threads on this board are started by the same person. This type of inflammatory baiting is very much intentional. You'll never "win" any of these discussions, because the instigator isn't approaching the discussion in good faith.

So rather than giving a troll the attention it so craves, simply refrain. Don't reply, report . Especially when threats and profanities start getting tossed around. Our community need not be a caustic place.

I agree, but I also want a real discussion on the topic.

Well, has anyone else listened to the podcast in the OP?

Mr. Filoni suggests Obi Wan is blowing smoke up Lukes backside when he says only stormtroopers are so precise as there is no other evidence in the movies for them being any good.

I take it then that this Mister Filoni has not actually SEEN Star Wars at all?

I take it then that this Mister Filoni has not actually SEEN Star Wars at all?

He is the guy behind the Clone Wars show and is one of the guys making the Rebels show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Filoni

I take it then that this Mister Filoni has not actually SEEN Star Wars at all?

He is the guy behind the Clone Wars show and is one of the guys making the Rebels show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Filoni

I wasn't a fan of the Clone Wars show. I am hoping that Rebels is better. Just something about the writing and voice acting. It just really grated on my nerves.

I take it then that this Mister Filoni has not actually SEEN Star Wars at all?

He is the guy behind the Clone Wars show and is one of the guys making the Rebels show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Filoni

What an odd choice for show runner, giving the job to someone who's never actually seen the movies his show is based on.

Wasn't that how we got the Karen Traviss books after Hard Contact? Supposedly she didn't even watch the prequels when writing that either...

I take it then that this Mister Filoni has not actually SEEN Star Wars at all?

He is the guy behind the Clone Wars show and is one of the guys making the Rebels show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Filoni

What an odd choice for show runner, giving the job to someone who's never actually seen the movies his show is based on.

Okay, now you are just poking at him.

Well, they are clearly disentangling the Clone Troopers (who are Awesome and Fan Favourites) from Stormtroopers.

Incidentally, this does open up Disaffected Clone fighting for the Alliance as a character type for AoR.

The whole incompetent stormtrooper motif really only came around because it would be bad to have the main characters slaughtered by the villains.

Are there any shows ever where the bad guys mooks end up looking good?

That is a tough question. I can think of a few off the top of my head, but we would have to only include live action series that revolve more around combat.

Early Stargate SG-1 episodes. SGU episodes. The rebooted BSG series. Early Buffy episodes.

Cartoons would be a horrible example simply because of how dumbed down they tend to be.

Edit - Early seasons of most series aren't usually too bad because the main characters haven't been overpowered yet. Babylon 5, DS9, and others leap to mind to add to the list.

Well, they are clearly disentangling the Clone Troopers (who are Awesome and Fan Favourites) from Stormtroopers.

Incidentally, this does open up Disaffected Clone fighting for the Alliance as a character type for AoR.

I can completely understand disentangling Clones from Stormtroopers to a degree but I would have still assumed a fair number survived up until A New Hope.

As for your second part, I get the feeling that after fighting such a brutal war where many of their "brothers" were killed in large numbers, many would simply abandon fighting for anyone and try to live peaceful lives.

@FangGrip - If you have read any of the EU I hope you did read the Thrawn Trilogy. At one point 4 Stormtroopers (I think it was 4 anyway) were killed in a badly planned ambush along with a number of regular Imperial troopers. Thrawn went ape **** over just 4 Stormtroopers being killed and Pellaeon remarked how the Empire had to husband them since they were the elite soldiers of the Empire.

And I find that Desslok's interpretation is actually quite popular with many who have read and followed the EU.

Farscape, Firefly, Alphas, Arrow, Defiance, Continuum...

Well, they are clearly disentangling the Clone Troopers (who are Awesome and Fan Favourites) from Stormtroopers.

Incidentally, this does open up Disaffected Clone fighting for the Alliance as a character type for AoR.

I can completely understand disentangling Clones from Stormtroopers to a degree but I would have still assumed a fair number survived up until A New Hope.

As for your second part, I get the feeling that after fighting such a brutal war where many of their "brothers" were killed in large numbers, many would simply abandon fighting for anyone and try to live peaceful lives.

@FangGrip - If you have read any of the EU I hope you did read the Thrawn Trilogy. At one point 4 Stormtroopers (I think it was 4 anyway) were killed in a badly planned ambush along with a number of regular Imperial troopers. Thrawn went ape **** over just 4 Stormtroopers being killed and Pellaeon remarked how the Empire had to husband them since they were the elite soldiers of the Empire.

And I find that Desslok's interpretation is actually quite popular with many who have read and followed the EU.

I read it back in the 90ies, but wasn't a huge fan. I was happy that there was more Star Wars, but I didn't really care much for it. I really am not big on a lot of the EU, but I won't hold it against anyone who enjoys it.

As for your second part, I get the feeling that after fighting such a brutal war where many of their "brothers" were killed in large numbers, many would simply abandon fighting for anyone and try to live peaceful lives.

I suspect it will turn out that many Clones took their vows to protect the ideals of the Republic remarkably seriously, and will not at all appreciate Palpatine's perversion of them. Doubly so since he used the Clones themselves to do it.

Farscape, Firefly, Alphas, Arrow, Defiance, Continuum...

Dammit, I was going to mention 2 of those! I'd also throw in Avatar the Last Airbender, One Piece, Naruto, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, and other countless animes and western cartoons.

As for your second part, I get the feeling that after fighting such a brutal war where many of their "brothers" were killed in large numbers, many would simply abandon fighting for anyone and try to live peaceful lives.

I suspect it will turn out that many Clones took their vows to protect the ideals of the Republic remarkably seriously, and will not at all appreciate Palpatine's perversion of them. Doubly so since he used the Clones themselves to do it.

Good points! But, sadly I still am reading up on that era as well as what happened after the Original Trilogy. Any suggestions that might be worth checking out?

Space: Above and Beyond....

@Glorious Chief - Good ones, Avatar tLA, Korra, and Cowboy Bebop are good examples too. Robotech too, except for when "kissing" comes into play. That was lame. Lots of good examples in anime, but I was trying to avoid cartoons all together.

As for your second part, I get the feeling that after fighting such a brutal war where many of their "brothers" were killed in large numbers, many would simply abandon fighting for anyone and try to live peaceful lives.

I suspect it will turn out that many Clones took their vows to protect the ideals of the Republic remarkably seriously, and will not at all appreciate Palpatine's perversion of them. Doubly so since he used the Clones themselves to do it.

Good points! But, sadly I still am reading up on that era as well as what happened after the Original Trilogy. Any suggestions that might be worth checking out?

Actually, if you follow the EU, the vast majority of the clones are dead or geriatrics by the time of the Battle of Yavin. Accelerated aging will do that to you. (They are the unfortunate implications of a throw-away line in Episode II)

Space: Above and Beyond....

@Glorious Chief - Good ones, Avatar tLA, Korra, and Cowboy Bebop are good examples too. Robotech too, except for when "kissing" comes into play. That was lame. Lots of good examples in anime, but I was trying to avoid cartoons all together.

I figured you were but since Rebels is an animated show it could get lumped into the kid's show category and I wanted to point out that a large number of cartoons/anime included these events (while also having some very adult/mature themes in them, Batman The Animated series being a great example).

As for your second part, I get the feeling that after fighting such a brutal war where many of their "brothers" were killed in large numbers, many would simply abandon fighting for anyone and try to live peaceful lives.

I suspect it will turn out that many Clones took their vows to protect the ideals of the Republic remarkably seriously, and will not at all appreciate Palpatine's perversion of them. Doubly so since he used the Clones themselves to do it.

Good points! But, sadly I still am reading up on that era as well as what happened after the Original Trilogy. Any suggestions that might be worth checking out?

Actually, if you follow the EU, the vast majority of the clones are dead or geriatrics by the time of the Battle of Yavin. Accelerated aging will do that to you. (They are the unfortunate implications of a throw-away line in Episode II)

I'm not that far into it and I'm only starting to pick up on that aspect of it.

I think Old Snake is our model for a clone fighting for the alliance in AoR:-

One last mission. To make it right.