@ ErikB: How about people who are less damaging to their own argument in their intended audience's eyes? For the new advocate for playing the setting straight with the Rebels as the good guys and the Imps as the bad guys... I nominate myself.

Mind you, some of what just got described underneath your post is "in their Imp days before defecting", i.e. all three of the PCs described in Shakespearian Soldier's campaigns... but if you really don't have a problem with that campaign premise, then why bother 'im over it? They're the very same sort of PCs that you called "Rebels who don't know it yet"!

@ Jon D: That's actually got a real-world parallel in one view of "the Somali pirate problem", albeit one which correspondingly really draws the "USA/UK/the West as the Galactic Empire" parallel... and there's probably quite a bit of obscure EU lore that also draws a similar parallel, however unintentionally or ahead-of-time.

@ copperbell: What you described is essentially what happened to Despayre, and "hidden systems" has no small precedent in EU lore, i.e. the censoring the existence of Honoghr and the Noghri from the wider galaxy, and if one considers the prequels canonical the similar censoring of Kamino revealed in Episode II!

For more superweapons for the Rebels to go sabotage...

Basically right after the destruction of the first Death Star, Emperor ordered both the Eclipse and Eclipse II , then both the second Death Star and what would become the Tarkin , this last item being both to hide the second Death Star and a prototype testbed for the ship-mounted superlasers on the Eclipse -class design.

Death Star prototype : Jedi Search and Champions of the Force (and thus the Jedi Academy Sourcebook ) had it as built first, but after George Lucas' off-hand remark on Episode III DVD commentary that Episode III actually showed the original Death Star, The New Essential Chronology treated his remark as canon and retconned the prototype to actually have been built concurrent with the first Death Star. In any case the prototype was just a testbed for the planet-destroying superlaser concept, and after the superlaser was successfully fired, thereby proving the concept, it was simply left alone in the Maw.

(Oddly enough, according to the Star Wars Technical Journal , " Actual effective work on the station took less than two years " regarding the first Death Star, meaning that the nineteen-year stretch between Episode III and Episode IV was essentially on account of a mix of design and supply problems, multiple sabotage attempts... and of all things, labor union disputes.)

Eclipse and Eclipse II : Based on Forces of Corruption , both had their superlasers installed and functional by 4 ABY, but the Emperor's death and the subsequent power corruption "significantly delayed" both ships; the Eclipse was built over Kuat and the Eclipse II over Byss.

Galaxy Gun : I couldn't find any development history predating the events of Empire's End , suggesting that it was very much a recent project relative to that comic (also 10 ABY) and thus well out of the scope of EotE/AoR.

Sun Crusher : Based on a comment in Qwi Xux's article about her having spent eight years designing it, its design or her participation therein dates back to 3 ABY.

Tarkin : Designed by Bevel Lemelisk and his team, who then moved on then moved on to designing the second Death Star, while actual construction was carried out at an orbital drydock over the planet Hockaleg in the Patriim system, with the crew living planetside in a spaceport. Note that in canon the Alliance only found out about its existence after the events of The Empire Strikes Back (Marvel's Star Wars # 51) but destroyed it soon afterward in the next issue.

World Devastators : Designed by Umak Leth, previously designer of the Universal Energy Cages for confining Force-sensitives. Note that prior lore such as the D6 Dark Empire Sourcebook seemed to imply-by-omission-of-other-details-and-the-New Republic's-surprise that it was a recent thing (relative to DE, set in 10 ABY), but the Death Star novel -- although of questionable veracity -- dates them as being in development before the first Death Star's completion , thus possibly retconning the reveal in Dark Empire to merely the first operational deployment that the New Republic knew of.

Nevertheless, that leaves noticeable leeway for a GM to do whatever they will with the status of the World Devastators, and the Dark Empire Sourcebook also had Umak Leth having become the new "Master of Imperial Projects" after Bevel Lemelisk was discredited by the loss of the first Death Star, so there's a "high value target" (HVT) for Rebels who become aware of him and his role!

Also, according to the Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader video game for Gamecube, the Alliance suspected the Maw as an Imperial site as early as 3 ABY, although the post-Battle of Hoth mission to the Maw was an attack on the Imperial prison (on a planetoid in the Maw) and not on the R&D installation.

When I have access to the full Age of Rebellion book, I do intend on running a side-campaign that's designed - from the sounds of it - to be similar to Maelora's: with Imperials as the protagonists. Some friends of mine on a site I frequent are in the process of playing through a campaign that's focused upon TIE fighter pilots (who also engage in ground-based missions), and it's going really well. They're using WEG system for it, but once Age of Rebellion comes out they might convert to that.

Mind you, some of what just got described underneath your post is "in their Imp days before defecting", i.e. all three of the PCs described in Shakespearian Soldier's campaigns... but if you really don't have a problem with that campaign premise, then why bother 'im over it? They're the very same sort of PCs that you called "Rebels who don't know it yet"!

I guess I have always thought that the decision to rebel was more about realising there was an alternative, coming to believe that you could make a difference and overcoming your fear than, yknow, figuring out where all your alien neighbours had disappeared to.

So the rebels struggle is to convince people that they don't have to live in fear and hate, not to expose hidden atrocities. Hell, I am pretty sure that I how I have played it. People know what the Empire is, they are just too afraid to do anything about it.

There's different reasons for rebelling, but a rebel is a rebel is a rebel. Provided they're against the Empire, its practises and beliefs, why the hell does it matter why they fight? One gives the finger to the Emperor because his home was destroyed to make way for the Intergalactic Highway, whilst another wants to b*tch-slap Vader because the Dark Lord kicked his puppy - the reason doesn't matter as much as where the characters end up, and what they do.

I would point out, that not all Stormtroopers are brainwashed. Some, most really, actually believe in what they are doing. Now some ate going to break away because of thngs like Aldarran, but STs going around chasing pirates may dismiss it as rebel propaganda.

I can see said STs hunting down pirates to find out the reason they became pirates is because their world got screwed over by the Empire. Might make for an interesting moral dilemma.

My idea was born out of a thought as to why some strormtroopers seemd to be less capable than others, where they are supposed to be the elite soldiers. I was thinking not so much about all stormtroopers being brain washed, more that a program exists to quickly replace lost troopers, cannon fodder instead of the properly trained crack troops.

E

For example, I plan on having them encounter an Imperial officer on occasion who proves to be a staunch patriot - but also a man of honour, who keeps his word and takes steps to ensure that those under his protectorate are kept from harm.

See, I hear this and I wonder what the guy thinks about all the aliens he has to round up and ship off for slave labour/medical experimentation/extermination.

You can do Schindler's List and have the guy working the system to divert his quota of undesirables to a safe area or maybe have the guy start drinking very heavily until the PCs show up and convince him that he can make a stand against the Empire (ideally he then dies in the resulting fight to avoid an awkward scene where he meets some of the people he shipped off to the camps), but, in my conception of the Empire, and I guess other peoples is different, it quickly becomes very hard to have a sympathetic character who enthusiastically pursues his duties for the Emperor.

See, I hear this and I wonder what the guy thinks about all the aliens he has to round up and ship off for slave labour/medical experimentation/extermination.

Except other than a few worlds (Kashyyyk, Yevetha, and Honoghr for instance), there never seemed to be an active attempt to round up whole populations of slaves. And in the latter two instances, they weren't worlds that were in contact with the Republic pre-Empire and were generally not open knowledge.

And the only abduction for medical experimentation I can remember from any of the canon was in the Rogue Squadron novels, and that was done mostly in secret. People just "disappeared" and it was in DIRECT control of a single General, not something ran through the entire local military.

To my knowledge there was never a systematic attempt to exterminate aliens by the Empire. They were second class citizens, but they didn't just round up aliens and kill them for being alien.

You are letting your opinion they are space nazis cloud your judgment. The Empire is evil at its core, but they weren't actively attempting to exterminate whole species.

To my knowledge there was never a systematic attempt to exterminate aliens by the Empire.

I guess I think blowing up planets is business as usual for the Empire and not out of character for them. As I see it, when people heard the Empire had built a superweapon that could destroy planets they were surprised it was powerful enough to destroy planets, not surprised that that they would want to.

I'll add that with Honoghr and the Noghri it wasn't the overt enslaving done with the Wookiees but rather lying to the Noghri with Vader pretending to be their benefactor (thereby the Noghri declaring allegiance to him) and with Noghri allegiance to the Empire being through Vader.

One interesting plot hook in an AoR game could be a Noghri coming across Leia Organa or Luke Skywalker well before canon (9 ABY), and thereby "smelling the blood of the savior" in them (as in, the beginning of how they came to be freed from the Empire -- by finally getting the opportunity to "find the crack in the wall of lies"), so to speak...

The funniest part is that even when you and others both work from the premise of an "evil at the core" Empire, the main difference seems to stem from very different conceptions of how that evil manifests. My answer on the "how": a lot of lies from the Emperor's end -- "galactic-scale" lying.

Having an overtly oppressive Empire everyone is too scared to do anything about means that when it goes away everyone breathes a sigh of relief, while if some people never got the memo about some bad things it was getting up to on the other side of the galaxy but everyone they knew who worked for the Empire was an okay guy makes things more complex.

I guess either way you get some unfortunate resentments about just who was most keen on the whole Empire thing in any kind of 'realistic' treatment, and you might think complex is better anyway, but I think I am more in to the lies we tell to children approach and that the take away is that you should have courage to stand up to oppression when you see it.

I think I am more in to the lies we tell to children approach

And I've found where we (and seemingly a bunch of who you mischaracterized as "empire fanboys") differ. See, I find the "lies we tell to children" approach to be very... Palpatine .

Then again, I favor the approach of "in the truth, the Empire is still evil, even with the details ... or because of the details" approach.

If you are not an empire fanboy say something nice about the rebel alliance.

--

Its a kid friendly franchise. They make lego. And you don't teach someone to swim by throwing them in the deep end. And like I say, anything FFG do has to make it past Disney.

First assume a spherical cow and all that.

If you are not an empire fanboy say something nice about the rebel alliance.

There's the old saying about a contest being decided by "who wants it more" when all other factors are equal, but the Rebels go one further: they need it, and that is what gives them the edge.

To say nothing of course of the benefits of strategic mobility (as opposed to tactical mobility)...

There's the old saying about a contest being decided by "who wants it more" when all other factors are equal, but the Rebels go one further: they need it, and that is what gives them the edge.

So we can say that imperials will break and run before rebels? :0)

To say nothing of course of the benefits of strategic mobility (as opposed to tactical mobility)...

While their rigid command structure and a lack of initiative in their officers makes them slower to react than the flexible and motivated rebels? :0) :0)

Has anyone else got any good concepts for Imperial NPCs? I need to scatter a few more throughout my game universe.

Has anyone else got any good concepts for Imperial NPCs? I need to scatter a few more throughout my game universe.

Two of which I would like to use is a former Republic Security and now an Imperial Moff who would basicaly be Baron Harkonnen on (more) drugs, unstable, decandent and twisted, but still rather quick-thinking and effectively vicious overlord. On other hand I plan to create his daughter, captain of Victory-Class Star Destroyer, who is duty bound yet humane officer and who was, as a child, almost killed and badly mutilated by Separatist biological weapon.

And then there is my EotE PC, thrill-junkie and dishonorably discharged TIE Interceptor Pilot (even Empire has standards for sanity) on the run from his former Wing-mates (on the both sides of Galactic Civil War )

Has anyone else got any good concepts for Imperial NPCs?

I guess I think blowing up planets is business as usual for the Empire and not out of character for them. As I see it, when people heard the Empire had built a superweapon that could destroy planets they were surprised it was powerful enough to destroy planets, not surprised that that they would want to.

Keep in mind that LOTS of people were surprised they did it. The REBELS weren't surprised, but really the Rebels were Rebels because they KNEW what the Empire was capable of. Not only that, but the Empire consisted of 1.75 MILLION full member worlds, and 10s of millions more inhabited worlds. With how much they controlled information, and with how the Imperial Intelligence is depicted in the EU, its quite possible that there are lots of areas of the Empire that have no real knowledge of what REALLY happened to Alderaan outside of what those "Rebel terrorists" are saying.

Another thing about the size: At 1.75 million full member worlds, is it really so unbelievable that one of those worlds would be ran by a decent person just trying to keep his system safe. The Emperor couldn't control every detail.

The Emperor couldn't control every detail.

As it turned out, this was apparently a part that the Emperor didn't like (you know, the part about actually "having to" run an Empire... you break the galaxy, you bought the galaxy!) and in time he wanted to do something about that...

Thanks Torog. Glad to hear from someone useful.

Hmm... okay

1) Imperial Agent and troubleshooter whose being hunted by both the Rebel Alliance and her handlers because she's doing too great a job resolving the problems the Empire is having out on the Rim because she believes in doing whats right for everyone and guiding the local Imperial bureaucracy so they've been gradually veering away from Tarkin's Doctrine and actually doing so much better that the Rebel Alliance is having a much harder time advancing their cause!

2) Failed Emperor's Hand: Raised by Imperial handlers since losing her remaining family at the end of the Clone Wars, she seemed set to become one of the Emperor's Hands unfortunately she discovered she wasn't the only one and made an enemy of the Emperor's Hand whose identity she had discovered.

Fleeing to the outer rim she seeks a new life but has to cope with not only being chased by a fully trained Emperor's Hand and the Imperial resources she can muster but also trying to deal with people outside of the Core worlds...

3) Imperial Scout: Was assigned to a garrison on Alderaan and along with a group of Stormtroopers took a trip to one of the outer planets as part of their leave only to witness the destruction of Alderaan.

Now considered outlaws and being hunted by their former fellows he split up from his surviving friends in an attempt to escape and finds himself with the dubious distinction of having been a former Imperial Loyalist framed for a charge of simply witnessing the actions of an insane Grand Moff!

Now he has to find a way to survive out on the Rim even as both the Empire and the Rebel Alliance are hunting him and he doubts either wants to take him alive!

Any of those any good?

Another one would be an Inquisitor based on my gameplay of Sith Inquisitor in Old Republic, think Black Adder (3rd Season) in Space. I remember following quotes but took them from tvtropes:

We captured and "chatted with" a chamberlain of House Organa.
Inquisitor:(sarcastic) How dare you torture someone without me?!

Doesn't it bother you that they got away?
Inquisitor: They were killed and quite possibly eaten... I hardly call that "getting away?!"

or the Balmorran scientists were insane?!
Sith Inquisitor: I personally prefer the term, "Differently rational".

1) Imperial Agent and troubleshooter whose being hunted by both the Rebel Alliance and her handlers because she's doing too great a job resolving the problems the Empire is having out on the Rim because she believes in doing whats right for everyone and guiding the local Imperial bureaucracy so they've been gradually veering away from Tarkin's Doctrine and actually doing so much better that the Rebel Alliance is having a much harder time advancing their cause!

Funny thing is, this sounds like several people's "fanon" interpretations of Mara Jade (as written by Timothy Zahn anyway), with some EU canon tidbits like her covering for the Hand of Judgment by pretending to Vader that they were her subordinates, but without her "protection" (both in anonymity/secrecy and in patronage) from being an Emperor's Hand...

This thread has been locked.

The purpose of these forums is to engender community and constructive collaboration. While disagreements and differences in opinion are to be expected, we ask that you take any heated personal conversations offline. Repeated attempts to derail a thread with political issues, personal attacks, or antagonism, will not be tolerated.

Please be civil. We're all here because we enjoy playing games. Try and remember that.

Thanks for understanding,

FFG Webmaster