It's funny that ErikB thinks Lucas derived the Emperor/Empire from Hitler/Nazis

I would be mildly interested in knowing if you felt the bad guys in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark or Red Tails were in some way derived from Nazis.

Honestly, if you that incensed/offended by ErikB's posts, then report them to the moderators.

Eh, I'm actually enjoying the conversation. I may think that he is very very wrong, but at the same time, Its an interesting conversation to have.

I may think that he is very very wrong

About what?

That the Empire are supposed to be the bad guys?

That Lucas grew up watching Flash Gordon and War Movies?

That Disney won't want to be seen making something that sparks this kind of debate?

You do realize that no one has actually argued that the Empire as an organization wasn't bad, right?

You do realize that no one has actually argued that the Empire as an organization wasn't bad, right?

I am pretty sure this guy was:-

Unless of course they refuse to support a terrorist organization that was bent upon the removal of the lawfully elected head of state and the destruction of the rightful government as a whole and believe that the Jedi was nothing more than a dysfunctional order of baby snatching monks engaged in a several millenium long ideological war that threatened to tear the galaxy apart.

Although like I say you can certainly have characters who believe that, so long as it turns out they are wrong to believe it.

Most of that quote is true, from a certain point of view. About the only part that isn't is calling the Rebellion terrorists. Terrorism is the systematic use of violence to create fear, and I don't think the Rebellion ever met that definition. They targeted military installations and targets, not civilians.

Most of that quote is true, from a certain point of view.

I don't think Disney are going to want to get in to debates about how from a certain point of view the US acts like Nazis, but that is okay because from a certain point of view Nazis were okay dudes, and by the way Luke Skywalker is a terrorist. I just don't see that as being part of their corporate strategy.

Most of that quote is true, from a certain point of view. About the only part that isn't is calling the Rebellion terrorists. Terrorism is the systematic use of violence to create fear, and I don't think the Rebellion ever met that definition. They targeted military installations and targets, not civilians.

Depending on your point of view, targeting the military of the legally elected government in order to overthrow the regime would cause fear to those who support the regime, making them terrorists, especially since one definition of terrorist is a person who carries out acts of illegal violence and/or war, which the Rebel Alliance is doing.

The only real difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is if you agree with them or not.

The only real difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is if you agree with them or not.

I'd kinda suggest that this is why Disney are going to do everything possible to make sure you agree with the Rebels.

I don't think Disney are going to want to see stories about 'Does the new Disney Star Wars movie support terrorism?' showing up on Fox News.

Maybe 'Walt Disney was anti-semitic - now the new Disney Star Wars movie promotes facism!'

Just report it as the inappropriate content it is people. The more you post, the more important Erik feels, and the more acceptable his behaviour appears to be.

Oh, I certainly did, right when I first posted. Going by this and other threads though, I think I'm gonna have to take DM's advice and block him... first time I've ever had to do that!

I think George Lucas drew upon the Smurf's for inspiration of Star Wars. I mean obviously the evil, "wizard" Gargamel is the Emperor and his evil cat/familiar Azrael must have inspired Darth Vader. Then you have the somewhat backwards Smurfs (aka Rebels) constantly thwarting the more powerful Gargamel/Emperor and his minion Azrael/Vader. The venerable Papa Smurf with his power over good magic easily inspired Yoda. Then, when the single female Smurf joined the group of heroes, she caused contention such as that between Luke and Han over Leia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely mistaken and can't accept the obvious truth. It was so obvious that a change had to be made to the original designation of Luke's X-wing squadron during filming. Originally it was Blue Squadron that attacked the Death Star, but was later changed to Red Squadron since George's staff thought the reference was way too obvious.

Early Yoda artwork:

Early action figure prototypes:

Most of that quote is true, from a certain point of view. About the only part that isn't is calling the Rebellion terrorists. Terrorism is the systematic use of violence to create fear, and I don't think the Rebellion ever met that definition. They targeted military installations and targets, not civilians.

Depending on your point of view, targeting the military of the legally elected government in order to overthrow the regime would cause fear to those who support the regime, making them terrorists, especially since one definition of terrorist is a person who carries out acts of illegal violence and/or war, which the Rebel Alliance is doing.

The only real difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is if you agree with them or not.

It's also a matter of target.

Going after the planetary governor who is actually trying to do right by the populace he governs, and has instituted several reforms to make the populace's life better while still allowing some sense of freedom, simply because he wears an Imperial uniform? That's not gonna go over well.

Going after a planetary governor that's a cruel tyrant more interested in his own well-being and crushing the populace under the heel of Imperial might while that same populace suffers horribly? The Rebels are going to look like Robin Hood-esque heroes to anyone that takes the time/effort to look past the Imperial propaganda/spin.

This is something that Mon Mothma and the other senior Alliance leaders knew and understood. They had to pick their targets very carefully, as one of the big things they needed was public support if they were going to have any sort of chance. I'm sure there were many viable targets that would have benefited the Rebellion from a military perspective that got passed up simply because the public backlash made the military gains not worth it. Taking out a Grand Admiral as he was commanding a Star Destroyer engaged in an oppressive military action? So worth it. Taking out that same Grand Admiral while he's on holiday with his extended family? A lot less risk from a military standpoint, but the public backlash would be devastating to the Alliance, especially if members of the extended family got caught in the crossfire.

This is something that Mon Mothma and the other senior Alliance leaders knew and understood.

Not to mention the guys at Disney.

Just report it as the inappropriate content it is people. The more you post, the more important Erik feels, and the more acceptable his behaviour appears to be.

Oh, I certainly did, right when I first posted. Going by this and other threads though, I think I'm gonna have to take DM's advice and block him... first time I've ever had to do that!

How do you block on this forum? Not seeing the normal button for it....

Just report it as the inappropriate content it is people. The more you post, the more important Erik feels, and the more acceptable his behaviour appears to be.

Oh, I certainly did, right when I first posted. Going by this and other threads though, I think I'm gonna have to take DM's advice and block him... first time I've ever had to do that!

How do you block on this forum? Not seeing the normal button for it....

Not to mention the guys at Disney.

You have an odd obsession with Disney. But sure, I'll bite:

Disney currently owns a property that has an ambiguous hero that risked the lives of every human being on Earth on the belief that HIS people would be better for it. Who killed his own mentor that was attempting to do nothing but good. Who attacked his own girlfriend in anger. Who is teamed up with a remorseless race supremicist. And through all of this is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNREPENTANT and says he would do it all over again.

The idea that Disney only allows cartoon good and evil just isn't true.

Enough people complain about his posts, and he'll get booted just as he did when he was posting under AluminumWolf back during the EotE Beta.

Dare I ask for public elaboration about AluminumWolf?

Enough people complain about his posts, and he'll get booted just as he did when he was posting under AluminumWolf back during the EotE Beta.

Dare I ask for public elaboration about AluminumWolf?

But this 'Mine is the only opinion that matters' is classic him.

A whiny basement dweller from rpgnet that whined over and over that Space Marines were ruined because they couldn't mushroom stamp their way to victory. And thus the Deathwatch line was ruined forever.

But this 'Mine is the only opinion that matters' is classic him.

Interesting, I wonder why this was?

The bit about " couldn't mushroom stamp their way to victory" (I guess meaning "declare victory just because they're Space Marines"?) pretty much reminds me of what ErikB was saying about X-wings even before the recent thread, though back in the "how many?" thread for Shell Game he proceed to call me "being difficult" for daring to treat the X-wing like the upgraded Z-95 that it is.

Hopefully someone will find this entertaining, since I chose to answer here rather than further muck up the X-wing thread like ErikB did:

... yes. Yes. Yes . YES. YES! YES! YES!

Also, pro wrestling is better fable-telling than Star Wars , and Daniel Bryan is a better protagonist than Luke Skywalker.

... yes. Yes. Yes . YES. YES! YES! YES! Also, pro wrestling is better fable-telling than Star Wars , and Daniel Bryan is a better protagonist than Luke Skywalker.

TEAM HELL NO!

... yes. Yes. Yes . YES. YES! YES! YES! Also, pro wrestling is better fable-telling than Star Wars , and Daniel Bryan is a better protagonist than Luke Skywalker.

TEAM HELL NO!

I second this viewpoint. Star Wars has a rich background and a lot of depth to tell your own stories.

... yes. Yes. Yes . YES. YES! YES! YES!

Could you possibly expand on why? (I am thinking of tuning in to Star Wars Rebels every week and the Empire is being awesome only to be robbed at the last minute by an unlikely deux ex machina.)

Also, pro wrestling is better fable-telling than Star Wars

I haven't watched wrestling since, well, I think I remember the Ultimate Warrior being locked in an airtight coffin, but I think you could do worse than thinking of the Empire as the 'heel' and the Rebels as the 'face'.

Okay what did I miss?

The Metro this morning had an article on the same subject as the opening comment on this thread, which wasn't as thoroughly explained!

Anyway back to the subject as far as I understand it, this was about being able to run Imperial characters in a Star Wars game but with emphasis that it isn't necessarily an evil PC game only correct?

The guy who was afraid i was going to mess up his character had planned a stormtrooper game and as I understood it we were to start off as part of the Empire and then later end up leaving due to objecting to an order we were expected to carry out without question.

It didn't get far since one of the others had problems with that idea, although it looked workable especially as we wasn't into playing an all evil campaign although were we to talk about running a superhero campaign he's already demonstrated a preference for characters who can kill but enough about that!

Anyway have any of you entertained the idea to start off as Imperials even if only to have explained in the opening sequence how they ended up going rogue due to some series of events that occurred between the Revenge of the Sith and just after the the Battle of Yavin?

Anyway have any of you entertained the idea to start off as Imperials even if only to have explained in the opening sequence how they ended up going rogue due to some series of events that occurred between the Revenge of the Sith and just after the the Battle of Yavin?

Years ago I ran a WEG campaign with two players that started like this. One was a Stormtrooper the other was an Imperial Lamda shuttle pilot and con-artist who smuggled goods on the side as part of his day job. They were at the Battle of Endor. The pilot's shuttle had docked upon the landing pad on Endor after dropping off supplies. The Stormtrooper, not known to the Pilot, was on guard duty on the landing pad. There was a brief cameo appearance of Darth Vader and a captured Luke walking by and flying off in a different shuttle to the Death Star. After being told to keep the shuttle on the pad due to a raging space battle starting above, explosions starting ripping through the complex. The pilot, the Stormtrooper, and a couple others leaped into the shuttle, got clear, but crashed into the jungle on take off. There was a brief firefight when Rebels came to investigate, leaving only the single Pilot and Stormtrooper still standing. After minor repairs, they took off to see the Death Star II in pieces. The more intelligent Pilot saw the Empire's days were obviously numbered, took it as an opportunity to leave service and make a profit selling the stolen Lambda. They ended up with a battered, used transport and the Pilot turned Smuggler, which was apparently in his heart anyway. The Stormtrooper eventually came around to his side, though he still had some latent Imperial allegiances. He kept his Stormtrooper armor, but painted it in a camoflauged pattern (both of my players were active military). They did end up working odd jobs for BOTH the fledgling New Republic and remnants of the Empire.

Sounds fun and distinctly non-Nazi to me, Sturn. Obviously we're doing it wrong.