* Dear Keeop, stop opening pdf threads. Love, Keeop

I thought that Disney shut down the part of Lucas that dealt with the electronic media so wouldn't all those restrictions on electronic documentation goes away then? Or would FFG have to redo their deal with Disney then to include pdf documents as part of this license?

The selling of Lucasfilm and Star Wars do Disney did make some of these things confusing, at least confusing to me.

I understand the license is causing the problem. But how do they get by with putting out the extra adventure and Character Folios for the Beginner box in pdf? Is it just that their free? I would think the license problem would have affected them as well.

It's because they're free - the same happened with free PDFs from WotC. It's because free PDFs are seen as supporting material, rather than retail products (which paid-for PDFs are).

I thought that Disney shut down the part of Lucas that dealt with the electronic media so wouldn't all those restrictions on electronic documentation goes away then? Or would FFG have to redo their deal with Disney then to include pdf documents as part of this license?

The selling of Lucasfilm and Star Wars do Disney did make some of these things confusing, at least confusing to me.

Nope - as the purchasing company, Disney would take over as party to any and all contracts to which the various Lucas companies and subsidiaries were party to, and the contract remains the same unless it is renegotiated. Given that EA have the licence for electronic gaming media, they have no reason to renegotiate it.

I thought that Disney shut down the part of Lucas that dealt with the electronic media so wouldn't all those restrictions on electronic documentation goes away then? Or would FFG have to redo their deal with Disney then to include pdf documents as part of this license?

The selling of Lucasfilm and Star Wars do Disney did make some of these things confusing, at least confusing to me.

Generally, once a contract agreement is signed, it's in place until the contract expires or both parties agree to renegotiate the terms.

Just because Lucasfilm is now part of the House of Mouse, all the stipulations, rights, and requirements of FFG's contract are still in play, even if LucasArts is pretty much an oversight branch of Lucasfilm rather than a production studio. Also, with EA having the contract for Star Wars video game rights, it's quite possible that also includes PDFs.

Then again, it could be that if the topic is broached in potential future negotiations, EA may very well say "we do we have PDF rights, they're not video games? FFG wants 'em, they can have 'em!" Probably an idealistic outlook, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility. Then again, EA could decide that Star Wars PDFs = profit that they don't have to work for, and leave FFG in the same boat that WotC was in with LucasArts and needing an entirely separate and expensive licensing contract to sell PDFs.

To put it bluntly, contract law is as confusing as it is intricate, particularly where big companies and large sums of money are concerned. And since Star Wars is almost a license to print money, it's no surprise that negotiating the licensing agreements is a messy and complicated business.

Well Disney and LFL just entered into a new deal with EA back in May. I have no idea if PDFs were addressed in that deal but it seems (fom this outsider anyway) that as part of these negotiations it should have been reletively easy to take exclusive PDF rights away from EA (assuming that is the case). As far as I know they aren't doing anything with those rights.

Well Disney and LFL just entered into a new deal with EA back in May. I have no idea if PDFs were addressed in that deal but it seems (fom this outsider anyway) that as part of these negotiations it should have been reletively easy to take exclusive PDF rights away from EA (assuming that is the case). As far as I know they aren't doing anything with those rights.

You seem to be implying that EA would be willing to give away rights they have, even if they aren't using them.

That's a fairly optimistic view of EA.

Well Disney and LFL just entered into a new deal with EA back in May. I have no idea if PDFs were addressed in that deal but it seems (fom this outsider anyway) that as part of these negotiations it should have been reletively easy to take exclusive PDF rights away from EA (assuming that is the case). As far as I know they aren't doing anything with those rights.

You seem to be implying that EA would be willing to give away rights they have, even if they aren't using them.

That's a fairly optimistic view of EA.

I am assuming that Disney/LFL had significant leverage in those recent negotiations.

Also, if EA has exclusive rights to SW electronic gaming content then why was this new deal struck? What did EA gain? Also people are saying that EA has had these exclusive rights since before d20 SW (13 years ago). How long was that deal good for?

The more I think about this the more this "EA has exclusive rights" doesn't add up. There has to be something else going on here.

Depends how much the deal changed, really. Yea, they just signed a new contract, but none of us know how much was changed. It might essentially be exactly the same.

Depends how much the deal changed, really. Yea, they just signed a new contract, but none of us know how much was changed. It might essentially be exactly the same.

What I am wondering is why the new contract was signed. Was the original exclusive deal expiring? Did EA not have an exclusive deal before? Did Disney want a more favorable deal from EA?

Also, did the PDF thing get resolved with EA and FFG is currently renegotiating its deal to get PDF rights?

Depends how much the deal changed, really. Yea, they just signed a new contract, but none of us know how much was changed. It might essentially be exactly the same.

What I am wondering is why the new contract was signed. Was the original exclusive deal expiring? Did EA not have an exclusive deal before? Did Disney want a more favorable deal from EA?

Also, did the PDF thing get resolved with EA and FFG is currently renegotiating its deal to get PDF rights?

You'll find out if FFG announce PDFs in the future. If not, we can assume they still aren't allowed (since their other games show they will if they can).

As for why the new contract was done:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/06/ea-acquires-star-wars-game-license

EA previously had to allow LucasArts to also release games, and now they own the exclusive rights for PC + consoles, and Disney own the rights to social media games and mobile gaming.

The problem isn't with FFG, but with the contract they signed with Lucasfilm, which stipulates that PDFs fall under "electronic media" and thus are the domain of LucasArts rather than Lucasfilm Licensing, and thus would require an entirely separate (and likely expensive) license on top of the license for the dead-tree format of the books.

This actually brings up a legitimate confusion for me. The concern is for "electronic media" - yet FFG is able to make a paid dice app.

I would be very happy with an iPhone app (and yea make a droid one too so my players can get it) version of the rulebook.

I don't really need a pdf if they can make an app that lets me read the rules from my laptop/phone/*tablet

Since I don't own a tablet yet, i'm mostly interested in a (read-friendly) mobile app- but I would be very happy with a mac one.

It very much seems to me this should be do-able, since as I mentioned, there is a dice app. What do you guys think of that as an option?

Apps I would imagine are harder to pirate, likely would be cheaper, and can easily be updated for errata purposes.

There just is the time involved in making a quality app, but from what I've heard the dice app is awesome. (I prefer the physical bits so i'll probably plopping down for another 2-3 dice sets rather than get the dice app)

Exciting Idea- they could make the app able to take submissions allowing us fans to submit free content (albiet lower quality than theirs) but it would make getting the app (which could include the core book and at a fair price tag) an even greater incentive.

I have no idea how FFG considers their apps as a venue for this, but I would buy it. What do you guys think? I'd especially like to hear Donovan Morningfire's thoughts about it. =)

App could fall under utility rather than game or mobile platforms are ring fenced. A lot of people think that PDFs are on some list In a contact and can be traded around. PDFs probably don't even show up on LFL's or now Disney's radar. PDF is a medium not a product category. It's like comparing an audiobook to an MP3.

What you likely see in a contract is a broader term such as "digital game for PC, Wii, Xbox and Playstation systems" (don't kill me paralegals I know that's not how it would get written :-)

Now you'll likely find that an rpg book on a digital medium falls on the border of two definitions. Either a) it's a digital game and interferes with EA's deal or b) It's an ebook which may require additional licenses/royalties. I would hazard a guess that either FFG know where they stand and can't produce it or there is a huge risk they'd breach their contact and would rather avoid the law suit with Disney/EA

It is not so much a "no pdf, no piracy" as the license that includes electronic media that lucasarts had, and is still in effect, was created long before ebooks and pdfs came about. It is oudated and made in a time before we have the media options we have now.

Its much like the laws here that make it technically illegal to copy music to an mp3 player. Outdated laws, or at least laws and lawmakers that can't keep up with technological progress.

It's basically this. EA (the video game company) holds an exclusive license over all digital gaming products, before that LucasArts held exclusivity on that front. I'd imagine FFG has an exclusive rights over printed gaming material hence books and minis.

So I think what a lot of these threads miss the point on, there is no "consumer demand" to be proven here, it's more the fact that the way LFL broke up their contracts makes PDFs impossible.

Not EA-Exclusive; the Lego games aren't EA.

The Lego games are based off the Lego star wars sets though. Another loophole as Lego Star Wars is a brand unto itself separate from star wars. Lego can do whatever they want with their Lego sets, there's even been multiple Lego star wars films.