I would love if they released a PDF version of the beta rules! Anyone else with me?

Yep. I'm with you. Save a tonne on shipping to Australia, for sure.

Not going to happen. Due to licensing FFG can not release a pdf of any of the books.

I know (well, as much as possible), but one can dream.

I would love if they released a PDF version of the beta rules! Anyone else with me?

Would we like it? Of course!

Is it going to happen? Not in a million years.

I know (well, as much as possible), but one can dream.

Don't bet on it. Disney is well versed on dreams coming true, and their legal department has failsafes in place. You don't want any of that.

And here we go again with "Why no PDF?" threads/posts... *roll eyes*

Point blank, if FFG had the ability to sell their Star Wars books as PDFs, they'd certainly be doing so. The fact that you can buy the Dark Heresy 2nd edition Beta online is proof that FFG isn't shy about PDF sales.

The problem isn't with FFG, but with the contract they signed with Lucasfilm, which stipulates that PDFs fall under "electronic media" and thus are the domain of LucasArts rather than Lucasfilm Licensing, and thus would require an entirely separate (and likely expensive) license on top of the license for the dead-tree format of the books.

And here we go again with "Why no PDF?" threads/posts... *roll eyes*

Yes, here we go again. And we will keep going again and again because consumers want PDF, and part of the point of these forums is for consumers to express their desires. Conveniently, though, these threads often have "PDF" right in the subject line, so they are easily avoided by folks who don't want to read them.

And here we go again with "Why no PDF?" threads/posts... *roll eyes*

I'm not too interested in more "Why no PDF?" threads, but I am interested in getting my SW RPG books in an electronic format, so I can't complain about the continuous visibility of PDF threads. Digital distribution of books and other printed material has become a big part of publishing today, and is something Lucasfilms needs to strongly consider for more than just fiction.

Pretty sure FFG already knows that pdfs sell. Nothing new to these threads. More aren't going to tell what they already know. They'll release pdfs if or when they can. Otherwise these threads stop being useful once the unknowing person gets their question answered.

But Lucasarts is out of the picture, at least technically. Room for renegotiation? I doubt it, honestly, but it would be nice.

My Edge Beta book is looking pretty sorry for wear, but I still cherish it.

Otherwise these threads stop being useful once the unknowing person gets their question answered.

Not really. If I am the one talking with Lucasfilm at FFG then I want theses threads to stay active so I can tell the Lucasfilm people that the customers keep asking for PDFs and we need to make this happen.

Otherwise these threads stop being useful once the unknowing person gets their question answered.

Not really. If I am the one talking with Lucasfilm at FFG then I want theses threads to stay active so I can tell the Lucasfilm people that the customers keep asking for PDFs and we need to make this happen.

No they are useless beyond informing people that pdfs are unavailable at this time unless you think FFG is run by idiots. DIsney/LucasArts could care less about these threads and FFG already knows that they can sell pdfs. You're dreaming if you think someone from FFG is going to use any of this to promote the idea of pdfs.

Otherwise these threads stop being useful once the unknowing person gets their question answered.

Not really. If I am the one talking with Lucasfilm at FFG then I want theses threads to stay active so I can tell the Lucasfilm people that the customers keep asking for PDFs and we need to make this happen.

No they are useless beyond informing people that pdfs are unavailable at this time unless you think FFG is run by idiots. DIsney/LucasArts could care less about these threads and FFG already knows that they can sell pdfs. You're dreaming if you think someone from FFG is going to use any of this to promote the idea of pdfs.

Well since neither of us is in those negotiations then neither of us can say what they will or won't use. The occasional PDF thread is a small price to pay for the possibility that they could be useful.

PDF thread... every freakin' time!

And the bottom line is the anti-PDF people are being very rude by coming into threads clearly marked PDF and telling people they shouldn't discuss the PDF issue. If you don't want to discuss it then don't. It is as simple as that.

However, I thank you for helping keep these threads going.

And the bottom line is the anti-PDF people are being very rude by coming into threads clearly marked PDF and telling people they shouldn't discuss the PDF issue. If you don't want to discuss it then don't. It is as simple as that.

I don't think anyone here is "anti-PDF." They are, however, weary of hearing the same question, when the answer is not going to change due to limitations of licensing. There really is nothing new to this discussion that hasn't been discussed before.

FFG (and, by extension, Disney) should totally remain aware that the electronic format is desired by more and more people every year. But, we don't need brand new threads to do that until such time as the license agreement comes up for renegotiation.

Honestly, if the often-used argument that "A PDF is considered an electronic (video) game" is actually true, then Disney's licensing department needs to hopefully have hired some people who are actually knowledgeable in the technology before they start to shop around the license again. It reeks of being thought up by some 19th-Century business tycoon who doesn't quite understand that computational device, pip pip! Paper that isn't paper? Remarkable! This is just like those "video games" I've heard about! By George, we already have a license for those, don't we? Then we can't very well let someone else supply them, can we, Johnson?

Honestly, FFG needs to put a stickied PDF discussion thread in the forums and point people to it to discuss that issue, merging and deleting any new threads that pop up. Then, when it comes time to renew the license, they can point to the thread and say, "We've got thousands of unique accounts here that are in support of electronic format for our products. We, and by extension you, are missing out on a large number of sales by our not being able to support the format."

Until that time comes, though, there's no need to make new threads about the issue. It's known, and there's absolutely nothing FFG can do about it.

Sorry that should have been "anti-PDF thread people." Sorry about the typo.

Completely agree that the question deserves to be asked again and again. In this day and age, Digital Publishing is the rule not the exception. If FFG does not have the ability, through it's current license, to publish this content digitally they should be actively pursuing the ability to do so. The Star Wars RPG is an amazing product and deserves to be sold.

All of that aside, the reality of carrying around over physical 700 pages of core rulebook alone is a health hazard. Come on Disney & FFG: Get it together. Think of the children!

I understand the license is causing the problem. But how do they get by with putting out the extra adventure and Character Folios for the Beginner box in pdf? Is it just that their free? I would think the license problem would have affected them as well.

I understand the license is causing the problem. But how do they get by with putting out the extra adventure and Character Folios for the Beginner box in pdf? Is it just that their free? I would think the license problem would have affected them as well.

It's a legal loophole in the contract, with the free PDF material being "supplemental support for the RPG line." It's only when there's money changing hands that it becomes an issue.

As for those folks saying "we need this threads to keep reminding FFG that we want PDFs," to be honest I doubt the FFG staff really even read these forums. There's been a couple full-blown flame wars with personal attacks being hurled left and right that was allowed to continue for several days before the threads got shut down.

They know full well that folks would love to buy PDFs of their books. It's just that right now, the license forbids it (said license being signed when LucasArts was still an active part of the Lucasfilm company and well before the Disney acquisition was finalized), and FFG may simply feel that their bargaining posture in regards to getting the license modified isn't strong enough to warrant the effort. The overall product line is still in it's relative infancy, and getting the okay to have PDFs for sale will probably require an increase in the already expensive licensing fees that FFG has to pay, to say nothing of legal fees (lawyers don't come cheap after all). Sales may be strong now, but FFG also has to consider that it could just be the surge for "new Star Wars RPG!" and not lead to continued sales if enough folks decide that they really don't care for the narrative dice mechanic or would rather stick to a Star Wars system that they've already shelled out a bunch of money for.

Short Version: Getting a modification to their license to allow the sale of PDFs isn't as simple as most people think, and FFG is painfully aware of the revenue they're not making from PDF sales, but have to weigh costs vs. potential revenue.

I understand the license is causing the problem. But how do they get by with putting out the extra adventure and Character Folios for the Beginner box in pdf? Is it just that their free? I would think the license problem would have affected them as well.

Moreover, although I have no problem in paying for Beta rules, I think that if FFG followed Wotc's example and made their betas free and in PDF, they would attract many gamers who I'm sure would buy the final product with enthusiasm.

A lot of people lost the Eote Beta - me, for instance - and had to pay huge amounts on Ebay for the booklet - me again (:. .A PDF release of the rules could be a great thing. The printed book could go on as a paid limited product, if they wished to profit. I am sure people would still buy it.

Also, I think the whole "no PDFs, no piracy" argument is invalid if that is what Lucasfilm would use to justify these restrictions (although it seems to be more of a format problem) because copies of the Beta and the Core Rules have surffaced. People like myself and maybe all of you would still pay for it. In fact, we may be participating and discussing here because we all love the SW RPG and want to pay for it!

Sorry for the bad english... non native speaker and sorry for going all over these arguments again, but that's my two cents!

I understand the license is causing the problem. But how do they get by with putting out the extra adventure and Character Folios for the Beginner box in pdf? Is it just that their free? I would think the license problem would have affected them as well.

The same way WotC was able to do it. Putting them out as free online supplements to the game.

It is not so much a "no pdf, no piracy" as the license that includes electronic media that lucasarts had, and is still in effect, was created long before ebooks and pdfs came about. It is oudated and made in a time before we have the media options we have now.

Its much like the laws here that make it technically illegal to copy music to an mp3 player. Outdated laws, or at least laws and lawmakers that can't keep up with technological progress.

It is not so much a "no pdf, no piracy" as the license that includes electronic media that lucasarts had, and is still in effect, was created long before ebooks and pdfs came about. It is oudated and made in a time before we have the media options we have now.

Its much like the laws here that make it technically illegal to copy music to an mp3 player. Outdated laws, or at least laws and lawmakers that can't keep up with technological progress.

It's basically this. EA (the video game company) holds an exclusive license over all digital gaming products, before that LucasArts held exclusivity on that front. I'd imagine FFG has an exclusive rights over printed gaming material hence books and minis.

So I think what a lot of these threads miss the point on, there is no "consumer demand" to be proven here, it's more the fact that the way LFL broke up their contracts makes PDFs impossible.