It seems that they're giving you what powers are seen in Empire Strikes Back for AoR, while the powers given in Edge are what we see in Star Wars (or A New Hope , depending on your age ).

What does that leave for RotJ? Luke uses something like Force Injury on Jabba's guards, as well as Influence on Bib Fortuna; Enhance at various points on the sailbarge, as well as Deflection (or is that part of the Lightsabre skill?); Anakin, Yoda and Obi-wan show up as Force ghosts (new power for dead Force Sensitive Exiles and Emergents?); the Emperor uses Foresee ("I have foreseen it."); all of them seem to use Sense. Force Lightning is the only other one that comes up...

That's the OT only, obviously. But I think almost everything else is a variant of those, except perhaps the EU Force Heal. Sabre Throw, maybe, but is that just Move? Maybe a version of Enhance that deals with Mental skills like Discipline, Cool or Vigilance?

Thanks for your opinions in response to my prior question, folks. My EOTE PbP campaign is taking off, and my Exile is curious as to whether I'll be allowing him access to these other powers without necessitating the purchase of Force-Sensitive Emergent. I'm sorely tempted to allow it, on the condition that changes found in the errata and final edition are applied the moment they are discovered.

Would be interesting to see his kind-hearted, Force-Sensitive Doctor gain access to Foresee: he's already making excellent use of Sense (he, unlike most players I've encountered, is adamant that he'll be the LAST player to charge headlong into the combative skills/talents/powers, relying instead on his pursuit into Medicine).

I see no real problem with not allowing him to take them. There is nothing in the RAW to prohibit that.

Agreed. I'm going to give him the green light, and start making use of these powers.

That makes no sense whatsoever. It was stated from the beginning the games were to be 100% compatible. The force powers prereqs. in AoR don't say " force rating 1+ gained only thru FSE" it just says "force rating 1+"

If you go by your logic no character could ever buy into a spec tree that wasn't in the book their base career was in and no-one from EoTE could ever buy a spec from AoR or vice versa, and no-one from EoTE could buy into the FSE tree because it doesn't mention the book in it's description.

Nowhere in either book does it say that you can only buy specs from a specific book.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

That makes no sense whatsoever. It was stated from the beginning the games were to be 100% compatible. The force powers prereqs. in AoR don't say " force rating 1+ gained only thru FSE" it just says "force rating 1+"

If you go by your logic no character could ever buy into a spec tree that wasn't in the book their base career was in and no-one from EoTE could ever buy a spec from AoR or vice versa, and no-one from EoTE could buy into the FSE tree because it doesn't mention the book in it's description.

Nowhere in either book does it say that you can only buy specs from a specific book.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

I think your misunderstanding perhaps...noone is saying that if you buy into one tree you should have access to the talents in both. what we're saying is someone who buys into either spec can access / buy the FORCE POWERS in either book, which clearly states that the only prereq is force power 1+

T

That makes no sense whatsoever. It was stated from the beginning the games were to be 100% compatible. The force powers prereqs. in AoR don't say " force rating 1+ gained only thru FSE" it just says "force rating 1+"

If you go by your logic no character could ever buy into a spec tree that wasn't in the book their base career was in and no-one from EoTE could ever buy a spec from AoR or vice versa, and no-one from EoTE could buy into the FSE tree because it doesn't mention the book in it's description.

Nowhere in either book does it say that you can only buy specs from a specific book.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

We are talking about the FSEx having access to FSEm talents, but having access to the force powers in both books.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

I'll admit to not having read the entire thread in a while (only did a skim while I was at GenCon), but I don't think there was ever a case of someone saying that a F/S Exile should be able to buy the talents from the F/S Emergent or vice-verse. The question was only if the Exile could purchase the Enhance and Foresee powers or the Emergent could purchase the Sense and Influence powers, in which case the answer is "yes" as the Force Powers only require that the character have a Force Rating of 1 to select them. Right now, the only way to get Force Rating 1 is to purchase either the Exile or Emergent universal specializations, so whichever one you take, you get Force Rating 1 and thus meet the solitary requirement to purchase any and all of the available Force Powers.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

I'll admit to not having read the entire thread in a while (only did a skim while I was at GenCon), but I don't think there was ever a case of someone saying that a F/S Exile should be able to buy the talents from the F/S Emergent or vice-verse. The question was only if the Exile could purchase the Enhance and Foresee powers or the Emergent could purchase the Sense and Influence powers, in which case the answer is "yes" as the Force Powers only require that the character have a Force Rating of 1 to select them. Right now, the only way to get Force Rating 1 is to purchase either the Exile or Emergent universal specializations, so whichever one you take, you get Force Rating 1 and thus meet the solitary requirement to purchase any and all of the available Force Powers.

QFT

T

I do not yet have the AoR Beta,n but from a careful re-reading of the EotE rulebook I would play it as follows:

1) Any eligible character may buy the Force Sensitive Exile Specialization and/or Force Sensitive Emergent (presumably). Buying the specialization is the only way to get access to he Talent tree of that specialization. Exile and Emergent are distinct specializations, and do not have access to each others Talents.

2) Any Force Sensitive individual can buy any of the Force Powers provided they meet the prerequisites. In most cases the prerequisite is a Force Rating of 1 or higher.

3) I expect that not all Force Powers are included in each book for the same reasons that not all playable Species, Careers, Specializations, equipment, starships, etc are not printed in each book.

I do not yet have the AoR Beta,n but from a careful re-reading of the EotE rulebook I would play it as follows:

1) Any eligible character may buy the Force Sensitive Exile Specialization and/or Force Sensitive Emergent (presumably). Buying the specialization is the only way to get access to he Talent tree of that specialization. Exile and Emergent are distinct specializations, and do not have access to each others Talents.

2) Any Force Sensitive individual can buy any of the Force Powers provided they meet the prerequisites. In most cases the prerequisite is a Force Rating of 1 or higher.

3) I expect that not all Force Powers are included in each book for the same reasons that not all playable Species, Careers, Specializations, equipment, starships, etc are not printed in each book.

And in so doing you would be absolutely correct, because it's extremely obvious that's what was intended. I'm not sure how the confusion got started in the first place, because as far as i can remember no-one suggested that the specs should share each others talents....only that either spec should have access to all the powers.

Someone got confused and sidetracked the whole thread.

T

I do not yet have the AoR Beta,n but from a careful re-reading of the EotE rulebook I would play it as follows:

1) Any eligible character may buy the Force Sensitive Exile Specialization and/or Force Sensitive Emergent (presumably). Buying the specialization is the only way to get access to he Talent tree of that specialization. Exile and Emergent are distinct specializations, and do not have access to each others Talents.

2) Any Force Sensitive individual can buy any of the Force Powers provided they meet the prerequisites. In most cases the prerequisite is a Force Rating of 1 or higher.

3) I expect that not all Force Powers are included in each book for the same reasons that not all playable Species, Careers, Specializations, equipment, starships, etc are not printed in each book.

And in so doing you would be absolutely correct, because it's extremely obvious that's what was intended. I'm not sure how the confusion got started in the first place, because as far as i can remember no-one suggested that the specs should share each others talents....only that either spec should have access to all the powers.

Someone got confused and sidetracked the whole thread.

T

Given the book says nothing about how it works with EotE, and FFG have yet to reply to the e-mail I've sent to them asking them to confirm this one way or another, you can't really say with certainty what is intended.

No, technically you can't. But reasonable extrapolation can allow one to draw these obvious, common sense conclusions. I'm guessing starting arguments purely based on that fact that these completely reasonable extrapolations aren't 100% confirmed ordained fact, and instead just make perfect 100% logical sense and match up concisely with how FFG has set up their game, is completely counter productive.

Just saying. I haven't even read the book and I can already see exactly how EotE and AoR sync together... mostly because everything uses the exact same rules. The only reason I could see the rules between the two books not being allowed to cross together would be if a group doesn't have access to one or the other, or if the GM expressly restricts usage of a certain book. But that seems lame and I see no reason why any GM should do that to be honest.

I expect Force and Destiny will sync perfectly in the same exact fashion as these books appear to. And no, I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE. But, I have common sense, and it by piecing two and two together, I can get 4, even if I'm not using a calculator to make **** sure I'm right.

TL;DR version: Don't start arguments over semantics and everyone will have a better time for it?

No, technically you can't. But reasonable extrapolation can allow one to draw these obvious, common sense conclusions. I'm guessing starting arguments purely based on that fact that these completely reasonable extrapolations aren't 100% confirmed ordained fact, and instead just make perfect 100% logical sense and match up concisely with how FFG has set up their game, is completely counter productive.

Just saying. I haven't even read the book and I can already see exactly how EotE and AoR sync together... mostly because everything uses the exact same rules. The only reason I could see the rules between the two books not being allowed to cross together would be if a group doesn't have access to one or the other, or if the GM expressly restricts usage of a certain book. But that seems lame and I see no reason why any GM should do that to be honest.

I expect Force and Destiny will sync perfectly in the same exact fashion as these books appear to. And no, I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE. But, I have common sense, and it by piecing two and two together, I can get 4, even if I'm not using a calculator to make **** sure I'm right.

TL;DR version: Don't start arguments over semantics and everyone will have a better time for it?

+1.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

I'll admit to not having read the entire thread in a while (only did a skim while I was at GenCon), but I don't think there was ever a case of someone saying that a F/S Exile should be able to buy the talents from the F/S Emergent or vice-verse. The question was only if the Exile could purchase the Enhance and Foresee powers or the Emergent could purchase the Sense and Influence powers, in which case the answer is "yes" as the Force Powers only require that the character have a Force Rating of 1 to select them. Right now, the only way to get Force Rating 1 is to purchase either the Exile or Emergent universal specializations, so whichever one you take, you get Force Rating 1 and thus meet the solitary requirement to purchase any and all of the available Force Powers.

I meant power but typed talent. My bad. I view the powers, mechanically, as essentially talent trees for that specialization. I just am not comfortable with the thought of buying one specialization but getting access to pretty much 5 powers. (I think? One is a reprint if memory serves.)

In any case, I am sure FFG will, at some point, let people know more specifically about this stuff.

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread. I think that to have access to the FSem talents the player needs to buy the FSem spec. They can have both FSex and FSem with no problem but they don't get access to those talents for 'free'. To me it'd be like saying a smuggler could access the Ace's Gunnery tree without buying that spec. It makes no sense and makes force powers cheaper than they should be.

I'll admit to not having read the entire thread in a while (only did a skim while I was at GenCon), but I don't think there was ever a case of someone saying that a F/S Exile should be able to buy the talents from the F/S Emergent or vice-verse. The question was only if the Exile could purchase the Enhance and Foresee powers or the Emergent could purchase the Sense and Influence powers, in which case the answer is "yes" as the Force Powers only require that the character have a Force Rating of 1 to select them. Right now, the only way to get Force Rating 1 is to purchase either the Exile or Emergent universal specializations, so whichever one you take, you get Force Rating 1 and thus meet the solitary requirement to purchase any and all of the available Force Powers.

I meant power but typed talent. My bad. I view the powers, mechanically, as essentially talent trees for that specialization. I just am not comfortable with the thought of buying one specialization but getting access to pretty much 5 powers. (I think? One is a reprint if memory serves.)

In any case, I am sure FFG will, at some point, let people know more specifically about this stuff.

It's your right to be "uncomfortable" about it, but to be blunt it makes 0 sense. why would you force a player to pay nothing more then a "tax" of buying into a spec to gain the powers in the book that spec is in when they have no intention of buying any of the talents from that spec? the powers are already costly enough, and it's painfully obvious that all the powers are intended to used with either spec, and it even says in AoR book in the section on becoming force sensitive that players may take the FSEx as their way to become force sensitive ( and does NOT say that the FSEx cannot use the powers in AoR)

It doesn't take a genius here. It was stated from the very beginning of the whole project that the games were effectively one system in 3 parts and that all parts were 100% compatible. So unless it specifically states in a given power that a certain spec cannot take that power, and the only listed prereq is "force rating 1+" then it's pretty obvious that any spec can buy any power.

The force powers are under thier own heading, and have nothing to do with either spec, so jumping to the conclusion that they are to be considered talents of that spec is a huge leap, and clearly was not the the designers intent.

T

+1 to Endriks statement also

TL;DR version: Don't start arguments over semantics and everyone will have a better time for it?

QFT.

It's honestly baffling to me that people are crying out for a hand-holding of how to utilize characters and aspects of the previous game with this one. It really is. The reason Sense and Influence aren't in AoR is because they're not used in Empire. If you want an omnibus game, no reason you can't have the two working together.

For example: I'm running an EotE game. One of my players asked to play a Gand Findsman - one of those Force-Sensitive cultural traditions that refuses to admit they're using the Force. Given the nature of the Findsman, he'll be taking Exile with the Sense power...but I'm going to allow him access to Forsee, since it totally fits with the character.

I don't need a paragraph in the book telling me I can do that, but from these threads and the ones on RPG.net, apparently people need a nod.

La la la... looking to change the topic... (not because of anything RedBaron said... I just think it's time...)

So we know there are at least 3 new Force talents:

• Invigorate (which seems to be a weaker version of Balance)
• Force of Will (which let's you sub in Willpower for any attribute 1/session)
• an unnamed one that adds Boost to Stealth checks

My questions are:

1) Are these the only new Force talents? If not, will you please share a little?

2) Is the Stealth-related one ranked, or a set number of Boost dice?

3) I believe Invigorate and Force of Will are both 25XP, so with Dedication and Force Rating, that fills out the 5th tier. Is that correct?

3b) Does the FSEm have access to Sixth Sense and Superior Reflexes (to boost Defense)? If so, how easy are they to get? (Is that part of why people are saying that the FSEm is more combat-oriented than the FSEx?)

TL;DR version: Don't start arguments over semantics and everyone will have a better time for it?

QFT.

It's honestly baffling to me that people are crying out for a hand-holding of how to utilize characters and aspects of the previous game with this one. It really is. The reason Sense and Influence aren't in AoR is because they're not used in Empire. If you want an omnibus game, no reason you can't have the two working together.

For example: I'm running an EotE game. One of my players asked to play a Gand Findsman - one of those Force-Sensitive cultural traditions that refuses to admit they're using the Force. Given the nature of the Findsman, he'll be taking Exile with the Sense power...but I'm going to allow him access to Forsee, since it totally fits with the character.

I don't need a paragraph in the book telling me I can do that, but from these threads and the ones on RPG.net, apparently people need a nod.

I'm doing the exact same thing for a Findman in my campaign! However, he got exiled for researching too many dark secrets in Findsman mythos (since every religious order, especially those involving the force, has a secret darkside) and was exiled for it. Now he's on the run from some OTHER Findsmen trying to take him down for his heresy, all the while trying to delve deeper and deeper into the secrets of the Dark Side.

La la la... looking to change the topic... (not because of anything RedBaron said... I just think it's time...)

So we know there are at least 3 new Force talents:

• Invigorate (which seems to be a weaker version of Balance)
• Force of Will (which let's you sub in Willpower for any attribute 1/session)
• an unnamed one that adds Boost to Stealth checks

My questions are:

1) Are these the only new Force talents? If not, will you please share a little?

2) Is the Stealth-related one ranked, or a set number of Boost dice?

3) I believe Invigorate and Force of Will are both 25XP, so with Dedication and Force Rating, that fills out the 5th tier. Is that correct?

3b) Does the FSEm have access to Sixth Sense and Superior Reflexes (to boost Defense)? If so, how easy are they to get? (Is that part of why people are saying that the FSEm is more combat-oriented than the FSEx?)

1) Those are the only 3 i see (it's called sleight of mind)

2) It's not listed as ranked, however it's in the tree twice (both on the 10pt line) so i think it's supposed to be

3) true dat

3b) no

A note on invigorate

Balance says" when making a check at the end of the encounter....."

Invigorate says "when making a cool or discipline check to recover strain...."

I would suggest that this is "worse" because it's actually forward compatible to tie in with a talent or game mechanic (to be introduced later) that would allow you to roll to recover strain in the middle of a combat....just a thought.

T

Edit on the tree it's not listed as ranked, but it is in the talent chapter description.

Edit 2 i lied ..in the talent chapter description of invigorate it specifically states at the end of the encounter. so not only is this talent more expensive, it's actually weaker and next to useless.

People are already concerned about mixing and matching characters from one book to another as it is. And now people want to impose limitations to actively make it more difficult? Seems kind of silly to me. Powers are meant to he taken by anyone that meets the prerequisite. The only prerequisite I've yet seen is FR 1. Show me otherwise. Don't actively make it more difficult. There is absolutely no reason, balance or otherwise, to think that there is more to it than that.

People are already concerned about mixing and matching characters from one book to another as it is. And now people want to impose limitations to actively make it more difficult? Seems kind of silly to me. Powers are meant to he taken by anyone that meets the prerequisite. The only prerequisite I've yet seen is FR 1. Show me otherwise. Don't actively make it more difficult. There is absolutely no reason, balance or otherwise, to think that there is more to it than that.

^Someone that gets it^

La la la... looking to change the topic... (not because of anything RedBaron said... I just think it's time...)

So we know there are at least 3 new Force talents:

• Invigorate (which seems to be a weaker version of Balance)
• Force of Will (which let's you sub in Willpower for any attribute 1/session)
• an unnamed one that adds Boost to Stealth checks

My questions are:

1) Are these the only new Force talents? If not, will you please share a little?

2) Is the Stealth-related one ranked, or a set number of Boost dice?

3) I believe Invigorate and Force of Will are both 25XP, so with Dedication and Force Rating, that fills out the 5th tier. Is that correct?

3b) Does the FSEm have access to Sixth Sense and Superior Reflexes (to boost Defense)? If so, how easy are they to get? (Is that part of why people are saying that the FSEm is more combat-oriented than the FSEx?)

1) Yep, just those three, with the other Force-based talents being ones from EotE, such as Uncanny Senses, Uncanny Reactions, Balance, and Touch of Fate.

2) Sleight of Mind, and it's Ranked according to the listing in the talents chapter. However, it doesn't work if the other person that you're trying to hide from isn't able to be affected by the Force.

3a) Yep, that's the 5th Row set-up, though none of them are linked to each other. You've got to pass through 4th row talents to get to them, but the Emergent has a direct line from Row 1 to Force Rating on Row 5, making it a lot cheaper to bump up your Force Rating than I would have otherwise thought.

3b) No on both of those, and instead can get Toughened and Grit, and get them quite easily. Given all three books are being worked on roughly in tandem, it's probably intentional that Superior Reflexes and Sixth Sense don't show up in the Emergent, as PCs are quite likely to take both Exile and Emergent to get a Force Rating of 3.

There's a thread discussing the issues with Invigorate, which as written isn't worth the 25 XP. Maybe if it were on the 2nd or even 3rd Row, it might be worth picking up, but as a 5th Row talent it's not that great, given the chance of earning Threat if you roll a Dark Side points.

La la la... looking to change the topic... (not because of anything RedBaron said... I just think it's time...)

So we know there are at least 3 new Force talents:

• Invigorate (which seems to be a weaker version of Balance)
• Force of Will (which let's you sub in Willpower for any attribute 1/session)
• an unnamed one that adds Boost to Stealth checks

My questions are:

1) Are these the only new Force talents? If not, will you please share a little?

2) Is the Stealth-related one ranked, or a set number of Boost dice?

3) I believe Invigorate and Force of Will are both 25XP, so with Dedication and Force Rating, that fills out the 5th tier. Is that correct?

3b) Does the FSEm have access to Sixth Sense and Superior Reflexes (to boost Defense)? If so, how easy are they to get? (Is that part of why people are saying that the FSEm is more combat-oriented than the FSEx?)

1) Yep, just those three, with the other Force-based talents being ones from EotE, such as Uncanny Senses, Uncanny Reactions, Balance, and Touch of Fate.

2) Sleight of Mind, and it's Ranked according to the listing in the talents chapter. However, it doesn't work if the other person that you're trying to hide from isn't able to be affected by the Force.

3a) Yep, that's the 5th Row set-up, though none of them are linked to each other. You've got to pass through 4th row talents to get to them, but the Emergent has a direct line from Row 1 to Force Rating on Row 5, making it a lot cheaper to bump up your Force Rating than I would have otherwise thought.

3b) No on both of those, and instead can get Toughened and Grit, and get them quite easily. Given all three books are being worked on roughly in tandem, it's probably intentional that Superior Reflexes and Sixth Sense don't show up in the Emergent, as PCs are quite likely to take both Exile and Emergent to get a Force Rating of 3.

There's a thread discussing the issues with Invigorate, which as written isn't worth the 25 XP. Maybe if it were on the 2nd or even 3rd Row, it might be worth picking up, but as a 5th Row talent it's not that great, given the chance of earning Threat if you roll a Dark Side points.

i just answered all these questions 3 posts ago, is there a reason you repeated everything?

T

i just answered all these questions 3 posts ago, is there a reason you repeated everything?

T

Didn't see your post before I replied to his. It's a forum, it happens.