I want to for two reasons.

1. WFRP dice have a horrible balance for opposed checks, for many cards and higher level characters.
2. SW dice have a perfect balance for opposed checks, and the system used in SW plays very well.

While I have everything released for WFRP 3rd (except some PODs)… I hope for a 4th edition using a new version of the SW rules. I don't feel like I needed the action cards and all that when playing SW and yet the narative dice worked well to create a great feeling of special successes, failures, special moves etc.

Has anyone else toyed with this idea?

The SW dice have the same number of different symbols and the dice would be fairly simply to just use instead of the WFRP dice.

It might require some alterations to be effective. Opposed checks done like in SW and defense altered so defense cards add red d12. Stats might have to be reworked slightly. I'd prefer a minimalistic solution, where you still use the cards and everything, but just streamline the dice rolling.

Also stance has to be changed. Of course the different sides of cards are used - but how to simulate the stances?

Fixing the opposed checks isn't that hard, but I'd say go for it if you want to try out the star wars dice. I find them to work out about the same.

There is a statistical calculator here if you want to try it out: http://game2.com/eote/?montecarlo=100000#proficiency=1&ability=1&boost=1&difficulty=1

Unsuprisingly, the statistics come out to be nearly exactly the same as WFRP, so it's not like they fixed the unbalancing. It just has fewer dice. Here's a WFRP statistical calculator if you're interested in comparison: http://file:///C:/Users/Jay/Documents/My%20Dropbox/Public/diceprob/diceprob.html

I ran the intro scenario with my 7 year old for star wars and it seemed to come out pretty good. The fewer dice were certainly nice for him and his 9 year old sister. I don't think I'd want to load them up with a 15 dice pool from WFRP We'll see what they do when the force is re-introduced

jh

In SW two Persons sit equal stats/skills have about 55% chance of success for the active party. This is much greater in WFRP.

Also SW has an extra negative die, that balances out the system better.

so when you say it's about the same, have you left out the red dice in the calculations?

You're right. I must have left that out.

What's the advantage of the increased failure rate?

jh

The advantage is that the balance is obvious with a slight advantage to the active party as opposed to a huge advantage to the active party in WFRP.

The dice are ordered in two sort of mirrored sets. Each positive die has a corresponding negative die. This gives a great obvious balance.

In WFRP there are 5 positive dice and 2 negative dice.

In SW there are three of each and then the force die.

On the plus side, the SW dice have the same number and types of symbols, so the results generated by SW dice can be used as is in WFRP.

You would have no stance dice however and would need to make rules for using the red D12

Gallows said:

Not shooting your idea, but couldnt you just add an extra purple die to your opposed checks in wfrp3 and come up with the same balance? Then you only have one die to balance out instead of several. Its what I do for my games to make them more balanced.

jh

Emirikol said:

Another possibility is to make opposed checks work like this (it has a good balance, similar to SW):

• Opposed checks rebalancing

  To find the difficulty of an opposed check you add the opponent’s relevant characteristic and skill, divide by two and round up.

  (Char + skill)/2 – round up. Add misfortune for skill as normal.

Defensive fighting is another option

• You can sacrifice dice from your attack dice pool to fight defensively. If you remove a characteristics die from your pool, you may add 1 misfortune die to all attacks until your next turn. Removing a expertise die lets you add a challenge die.

Finally you could resolve combat using the rules for opposed checks above.

Hey!

Well I was toying with the idea some time ago, but I got to the conclusion that it was not so easy to translate, may be I am wrong.

First, in SW EotE the characteristics of the PCs are not that high as those of Warhammer 3. Similarly, increasing characteristics one single point in SW EotE takes a lot of effort. This is because in SW EotE, contrary to Warhammer 3, the skills are meant ot dominate over the characteristics and they can be rised up to 5 contrary to the cap of 3 in Warhammer 3.

It is also important to notice that the Difficulty dice in SW are not that negative as compared to the Challenge Dice in Warhammer. The Challenge dice in Warhammer are more similar to the Challenge dice in SW EotE, which are less common in the dice pools than the Difficulty dice.

Then there is the thing of the probabilities. The outcome of the dice in SW EotE is a bit different than in Warhammer 3. The ratios of success/boons and failures/banes are different in the two games, and I have no idea which is the impact on the game (for example in the action card resolution). But probably the most important is that the ratio of Sigmar Hammers and specially Chaos stars out comes with the SW dice is much lower than in Warhammer 3. Which by the way I find is good, because at the end, in Warhammer 3 I was totally tired of interpreting the results of dice pools with comets, chaos stars, banes (or boons) every 10 minutes.

In brief, what holded my back of using the SW EotE dice with the Warhammer 3 game is that those dice are also ment for a different game system, and I think there is a bit of unbalance risk in directly translating the dice system of SW EotE to the Warhammer 3 game with out for example, bringing also the character creation and evolution system.

Cheers,

Yepes

I just went fully for the EotE system. I wrote a fantasy mod that replaces the careers, specializations, and Force powers. It took a lot of work, but it was worth it. I am not running Warhammer, but I am running a fantasy setting and my players love it. I still draw a lot of inspiration from what they did with WFRP, but the system is simply different. You can find some of our discussions on it over on the d20 radio forums.

JasonRR said:

Impressive! Well done!

I hope to see FFG releases a "Warhammer 4" based on the EotE system. Well, actually, based on an evolution of the EotE system. The system is good, far better than Warhammer 3, but there is still room for improvement

Cheers,

Yepes

Gallow's chaos Star variant stop them to help player succeed their check. It's great.

Gallow's opposed check variant is quite interesting. I'll check it out. My Variant, played for 60+ sessions, is to roll a number of challenge dice equal to the tested Attribute of the passive charater minus 2. Add a misfortune dice per trained skill. Statistically speaking it's quite fair.

Gallow's defensive dice is a neat and simple idea.

All of these help to increase failures

I think the more important question is whether you are going to ditch the cards and go with EotE's system of universal (or talent driven) uses for using the symbols.

I just went fully for the EotE system. I wrote a fantasy mod that replaces the careers, specializations, and Force powers. It took a lot of work, but it was worth it. I am not running Warhammer, but I am running a fantasy setting and my players love it. I still draw a lot of inspiration from what they did with WFRP, but the system is simply different. You can find some of our discussions on it over on the d20 radio forums.

Would you mind sharing them, please? Im started to play around with a conversion and all ideas are more than welcome.

I just went fully for the EotE system. I wrote a fantasy mod that replaces the careers, specializations, and Force powers. It took a lot of work, but it was worth it. I am not running Warhammer, but I am running a fantasy setting and my players love it. I still draw a lot of inspiration from what they did with WFRP, but the system is simply different. You can find some of our discussions on it over on the d20 radio forums.

Would you mind sharing them, please? Im started to play around with a conversion and all ideas are more than welcome.

I'd be interrested too :-)

I just went fully for the EotE system. I wrote a fantasy mod that replaces the careers, specializations, and Force powers. It took a lot of work, but it was worth it. I am not running Warhammer, but I am running a fantasy setting and my players love it. I still draw a lot of inspiration from what they did with WFRP, but the system is simply different. You can find some of our discussions on it over on the d20 radio forums.

Would you mind sharing them, please? Im started to play around with a conversion and all ideas are more than welcome.

I'd be interrested too :-)

Me too. I would very interested to see more of your work.

I will use the force dice to mages and priests. First i ll let them have something called power, meaning the amount of powerpoints equal their wp-rate. this power refresh after an encounter. Also i will let something called powerlevel be a talent in their respective talent-tree (havent decided if 1 or 2 of these per tree will be sufficient. These powerpoint can be used by the caster to cast spell or have them uphold sustainable magic.

After that the caster also will have something called power-rating (as in eote) meaning that when casting spells they will also roll an equal amount of power-dices when tossing spells. Every white dot represent a wind that is their schools wind and can be used to fuel the spell, further the black dot is representing other schools wind that they can use but if so they will get corruption in some way (havent decided how but will try out by giving them 1 corruption for every black dot they choose to use). Maybe give them double or more if any despair symbol is rolled

In this way i will cancel the double rolling for channeling/spellcraft check for mages (which i think is good) and they only roll 1 spellcraft check, if they do not have enough magic gathered the first round they can keep channeling until they gather the amount they need to throw the spell.

What do you guys think? Will the power-rank be to powerful, i recon they gather 1,5 "white" magic point/power dice, meaning a rank 3 wizard can muster around 4-5 magicpoint in 1 round

Further i will create a talent tree for each school of magic/ diety where respective spells will be present + a core wizard/priest talent-tree where "force" passives etc will be present. So 1 tree to learn higher lvl spells and 1 tree to increase thier manapool, their force rating and abilities that are adaptable to their class and enhance their spells. Well this is my idea at least, will se how it works out

I like the warhammer flavour so I wouldn't do that. But I also play EOTE and see what's really good in it which could be reintroduce in WFRP3.

First let's notice that SWEOTE doesn't either use opposed check to rule melee combat and there's no defense action, just a (nice) Defense talent mechanic not everyone can purchase.

1) Balanced opposed check difficulty = passive character's ability/2 (rounded up) + add 1 misfortune dice per rank of expertise.

2) I really like how you convert ability dice in expertise dice to manage lesser big pools in hands. I'll try that in warhammer.

3) many action cards are not what they are meant to be : individual super-trick. A lot of them are juste special rules for aiming, seducing, brawling, etc... I've taken those off the PC choice and put it in a "rulebinder of actions cards" free to use for anybody.

I want to try out the following system.

You convert dice as per SW rules.

You convert one characteristic die into an expertise die for each skill rank you have.

If you use an action card you add either one reckless die or one conservative die depending on what side you use. Stance is no longer used.

I don't use fortune dice for characteristics either. You can however purchase a fortune point in each characteristics giving you +1 fortune point per characteristic. You can only buy for your careers prime stats.

If you convert, the expertise dice must be enhanced because he replaces 2 dices. We tried it that way : boons and straight success count double, comet counts as both success and critical, the reroll success doesn't change.

Yeah I gave up on the idea and went with a simpler solution. I made an enhance card that can be used every round. Everyone gets this card at character creation and NPC's use it too. It will make it harder to hit and cut down dice pools when being defensive.

Am I reading that right that you're giving all characters a free heal every round?

Am I reading that right that you're giving all characters a free heal every round?

Yep. Damage is a bit high in washammer and this can help a bit. Besides NPC's use the card too.

I made the card to solve three issues.

1. Too many dice in the pools. This card when used will help with that.
2. Damage a bit too high.
3. Hit rate is too high.