diaper said:

Not doubting the above - but still the point of the matter is that NO one of an FFG employee has even bother telling us anything. That is the point I'm making. And I have been told via email to "Shut the BLEEP" up...well sorry, you don't do that to customers - dont' care who you are or how big your company is. Namely since one can easily publish the email on the Internet. I don't intent to, but if the person doesn't apologize, I will forward the email to appropriate parties inside FFG (and I know a few).

And with it being 9 months now..come on, there should be something to say. Not like the initial months of trying to figure out what to do and working with Richard. Richard knows what he wants to do and has stated so (I believe that was the first post in this message..if not, there is one here..can't see the message while I post this). But Richard has been relegated to answering questions.

So come on FFG - show us why you bought this or did you just have $$ to burn and hired the same marketing folks from DoW and give no info?!?!

Cab

I was told via email to watch for a big announcement coming soon. This was well over a month ago now (I posted about it at the time).

...

Well, we've all been watching... and zilch, nothing, nada.

... its just dissapointing.

I can't believe that they are still fine tuning the expansion. Was it that far off the mark when Richard handed it over to you guys? Seriously?

You don't want to talk about it until it is ready for release? Middle Earth Quest and Warhammer Chaos are the most recent additions that came out of nowhere but won't be released until fall... but you're still talking about them - hyping them up (as you should). Why not hype up Battlelore?

Sorry for the nastiness, but Battlelore just seems to be the red headed step child that no one wants to talk about - and its such a shame as it has the potential to knock the other two C&C games out of the water (and that's saying alot because they're **** good games!)

Ben.

Boromir_and_kermit said:

I totally agree Ben - seems all hype, no substance and telling the designer to basically answer questions and doesn't cut it. Sure Richard has some big plans and all but come on...9 months now and big ZIPPO in saying anything. And I'm still awaiting that apology from that one FFG employee as well....

I doubt Heroes needed that much polishing up. I doubt Richard would have given them that bad of an expansion. But of course FFG might have some other ideas for what to do with it. I guess maybe saying nothing will win new customers?? LOL - fat chance. And they hype all those CCG and other board games so much WAY before they are released. I SERIOUSLY doubt that Heroes expansion was that badly sent to them...

And remember I was a demoer for Battlelore for DoW so I know BL has a lot of potential but saying nothing after so long basically will NOT win any customers but certainly will lose them.

So come on - let's hear something from you folks at FFG....And something with SUBSTANCE..none of the "we got something planned" BS hype. We have heard that before already...even a few times from you folks at FFG!!

Cab

I happen to like the "we got something planned" hype. Especially the Richard Borg hype!

As long as the next expansions are top-notch, I'm still willing to give FFG another year if more time is what they need.

As long as the next expansions are top-notch, I'm still willing to give FFG another year if more time is what they need ...

FFG: "Hey one thinks that we can pospone this for one more year !!!"

FFG#2: " Cool now we need to learn the rules ... they are soooo complex ....

FFG: "I think I could learn them but damit. We have the heroes rules all sorted too.. so we would have to give those away."

FFG#2: "Heroes ??? This game has infantry, missile and cavalry... one more type of units and ill pop...."

PS some irony will not kill you, but IF it hits and the boat sinks... its usually the truth.

Germ said:

If it´s going to be another year before anything is released i will definitely try to find another game to follow instead.

For me a large part of the exitement about battlelore was the promise of seeing the game system and the game world grow. Waiting and anticipating whats to come next is a fun part of this. But waiting for two years with no or little communication from the company is not fun any more. I'm sure thera are other game systems out there that can be as much fun and as rewarding to follow as Battlelore but with a steadier stream of releases and more communication from the owners...

diaper said:

I agree. It is absolutely ridiculous that there is NO communication from the company. I have been itching to buy the Heroes release and have been looking forward to more expansions from BattleLore. Unfortunately, my gaming group doesn't have unlimited playing time and we have to pick our games wisely. So, I guess we will be playing A Game of Thrones and Power Grid. Perhaps it is good bye to BattleLore?

Any official news would be much welcome. How hard could it be for them to give an update? Look at the upcoming releases and it says the Gears of War Board Game is due out in the 4th Quarter! It seems it would be easy enough to put a tease out for BattleLore. Perhaps I would suggest an official post that goes something like this. . .

Battle Lore Heroes Expansion

Expected Release: Q4 2022.

At least then we would have reason to believe they may actually release it someday.

Well, I believe that all reasonable explanations for delays and building expectations with no results have been exhausted. I tender that there is a more economic reason to explain the silence and seeming indifference to these forum loyalists.. . .

Zeal said:

Or more appropriate...as I mentioned before and still have not gotten NO response from the FFG employee - that FFG doesn't give a Rat's behind on people who are loyal to a product line that is not officially theirs. They have Richard basically answering questions...Gee, what a poor way to make use of a designer vs getting his insight on how things might go in regards to releases and things like that.

But I guess dedicating a REAL FFG employee to this forum would be WAY too costly and too much resources as well.....but I guess they don't care that they are losing customers as well on something they claimed they had high hopes for but at the same time, they can promote NEW products or expansions for other games. I agree Zeal - all the explanations they can give now are meaningless. 9 months now and exactly NOTHING - not even a peep.

Richard, you know my feelings on this since I have communicate them to you and I do feel for you that FFG seems to not really care about this product nor the customers of it. Might as well let it sit in DoW's hands for all the good so far that FFG has happened to it - which is nothing.

Last chance for that FFG employee to apologize and you know who you are!!

Cab

Caboose said:

You need to relax. Go play a game or something.

The folks at FFG are most likely dedicating a majority of their resources to Middle Earth Quest at the moment, which would generate the most revenue for them once released. We'll just have to be a bit more patient for the Battlelore expansion. I have BIG hopes for this game too... but the economy may be leading FFG down another path for the time being.

Just my thoughts...

mandingoman said:

good thoughts....

Well regardless of the economy we are having this discussion in a part of the FFG homepage that is dedicated to battlelore, and named "community". But if you really wan´t a community around your games I think you have to do a little bit more than FFG has been doing for the battlelore-fans so far.

I mean, there hasn´t been any update to the battlelore pages since before christmas...

Three points...

• Battlelore was released in 2006. Since then, we have had 8 expansions (10 if you include Hill Giant and Earth Elemental). So, that's almost 3 expansions per year. There are a lot of great games that don't have such support.
• People keep wanting to updates and information. However, as I have seen with Heroes, when the expansion isn't released on time, people get bent out of shape. No wonder FFG doesn't discuss specifics with us.
• Remember what happened with the Troll? Maybe they want to avoid the wrath of players that are unhappy with the expansions. I don't mind them fine tuning an expansion before its release.

I appreciate expansions. I have two copies of each (except the Troll, which I don't own). But, my Battlelore still has a lot of life left in it. So, I don't mind the wait. It lets me spend money on other games while still enjoying Battlelore.

Just my opinion...I could be wrong.

biomage said:

Some counterpoints (none of which are to point out that you are "wrong" - as I very much share your conclusionary opinion ):

All 8 of those expansions (9 including the Earth Elemental, which I would not consider an expansion) were released before 2008 dawned. And each of those 8 expansions predicate that there will be future expansions - none of them are full fleshed out versions of what the game will look like, assuming FFG starts releasing more bits for the game. CtA deployment decks and future race/nation expansions are inexorably tied to the direction the game should be taking. Heroes are not necessary to the game, but exist, and their impact on gameplay will enrich the game further. Scenarios and Campaigns can certainly be incumbent to the players, but responsible support of the game should develop those as well, as both Scottish Wars and Hundred Year's War approached, then stopped short. The Goblin and Dwarf figure expansions demonstrate the army building that can occur with the game, but are both just tastes.

Updates and information do not have to include delivery date promises, nor would reasonable people hold a game company to a position of failure for inability to meet suggested release dates. The frustration and disappointment voiced has nothing to do with missed release dates, rather with the almost complete silence about the direction the game is taking, and somesort of timetable with which it is heading there. While I may have misgivings with the manner in which some are voicing their displeasure, I do not find fault with their feelings of disappointment. The game is great as is, but it certainly has more promise than is currently available, and players have known about this promise for well over 2 years now.

The Troll expansion, I believe, was an attempt to move the game in a certain direction. If this direction had been discussed in a more open manner, I believe all would've been the happier for it. To me, the Troll release is a reason to be more open about what is happening with the game, not a reason to be less so.

I hold the same opinion of the game since the day I began playing it: I love what there is and look forward to many hours of playing what it becomes.

Spring 2009 will be a great time to be a BattleLore fan.

Man, is this dish going to taste good when it's ready to eat.

Do i feel as funneled.

Spring 2009 is a great time to be a BattleLore fan - just not for the reasons that the post Alistaja referenced had intended

Besides, there's still a couple weeks left in Spring '09

One of my partner's purchased BL and I enjoyed the game. I always thought that DOW really ignored it and put out fairly boring looking expansions. I never thought to get my own copy. I'm still pretty excited that FFG has it and that expansions will be on the way. They would not have paid for this game if they had no intention of supporting it. I'll even buy the undead army myself just to play it with my buddy.

FFG seems to have changed how they make their announcements of upcoming releases. They have been burned so many times here and on BGG about not being able to get a game on the shelves when they said they were going to. It looks like they are waiting now until later in the process to announce much.

If you consider how much they have in the pipe right now, not just stuff on the upcoming page, but the Dune and Borderlands remakes, Cosmic Encounter expansions, LCG releases, RPG products, Gears of War, and who know what else.

sepayne7l said:

I don´t think anyone doubts that FFG will put out new BL products eventually.

What frustrates me is that they keep the same policy of silence as DoW did.

I understand and respect that they won´t announce new stuff until it is at the printers in order to not dissapoint people when there are delays.

But there are other things a company can do to support a game and the community and show the fans that they apreciate their loyalty. BUt FFG choses not to do anything at all until there are new products to sell.

I also agree that FFG will eventually publish BattleLore expansions, but I'm increasingly frustrated by the lack of official news from the company. How much trouble would it be to release a few scenarios now and then or to give us some updates on things like the scenario editor? At least then we would see some evidence of their willingness to support the game and its already established community.

I must say that I find it hard to believe that DOW would not have published another expansion to BattleLore by now. I also find it ironic that the same offense that DOW was roundly criticized for is being committed by FFG.

Perhaps it's time for an open letter to the company so that they'll sell it to a third publisher? ;-)

Geoff

toddrew said:

I agree completely. There was a ton of posts from the fans back on the Days of Wonder site about what people were looking for in future expansions. DOW was silent for a very long time with no communication with the fans requests. Then came the troll expansion and it didn't go over well at all.

Well whilst FFG are thinking over what packages to put out there I thought I'd spend a few minutes gathering my thoughts on whats been hinted at (and what hasn't):

First thing is that there is a 'map' as the Torks were found in Greenland (and a hint of a timeline/ history). To me this bodes neither good nor bad but perhaps most interesting the possibility for a RPG which would explain the need for a delay in getting stuff out there IF they are re-writing heroes to tie in with it! (Yes I know FFG have CoC and Warhammer but a lighter game world would round out their portfolio).
and the biggest telling thing of what isn't there, Creatures, are they mulling over the whole idea of creatures and how to get them out there following the reception of the Troll pack? Have Richard and his playtest crew work on others (the dragon has been hinted at by the Raven but nothing official)

Dwarf Shadow Army, Dwarven Lords - so far we have seen one version of dwarves (the always bold version), are there any other dwarvish stereotypes that could be twisted in a Battlelore style, I'm not sure.

Forest Elves, Shadow Elves, War Elves - Forest elves sound tolkienesq, Shadow elves sounds Drowish, would there be space for a War type elf as well, I don't know, though it might tie in with the tribesmen / barbarian humans

Tork (aka Orks) from Greenland, so purely a mercenary race to me rather than having full depoyment deck as their 'home base' is too far away.

Human Barbarian Army, Human Tribesman, Human Ice Army, Man'chines, Wolven Migration.
These leave me with the biggest doubts, where in europe would a barbarian or tribesmen like area exist without more devoloped organised etc nations just steam rolling over them? France, England, Holland, Spain, the Proto Pussian states, Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman empire, I just can't see where or how they could exist
Ice Army sounds plausible (if thet come from the area that will beome Lenigrad), Wolven migration from Nordic region.
Man'chines, sound like humans making use of machines to aid their war efforts. I could see them being from the Holy roman Empire region (aka Italy) from which the Renaissance and all the technological / scientific break throughs come from

Rat Nation, Reptilian Army, The Swarm (Bugs)
Again I'm in two minds on these, would need to see how they are done, mind you I like the twists on tradtional fantasy races so far so more than happy to see Richards interpretations on these

Necromancer Skull Army (featuring the dead and much more) - Lithuania sort of area lots of mountains narrow valley passes, lots of darkness and shadows, yeah that could be interesting, perhaps an unholy allience with shadow elves and dwarves?

So FFG if you've got this far through this thread and interested heres my wish list based on what Richard has hinted at, make of it what you wll:

Heroes (and please add in a RPG game at some stage but don't delay more release because of it)
Skull Army
Dwarven Lords, Forest Elves, Human Ice army and Wolven migration
Bugs, Man'chines, Shadow armies
Rat Nation, Reptilian Army
War Elves, Tribesmen and barbarians

Chris

Elberon said:

I'm still surprised at the negative reception the Troll pack received (or continues to receive). The two battlemaps for Memoir'44 have been received positively in the M'44 community. I understand that it seemed a little overpriced and the cards weren't included, but that hasn't slowed down the M'44 maps. Is there a difference in the communities? The games? I'm not sure, but the Battlemaps seem like a great way to introduce atypical board sizes or amounts and types of terrain that aren't coverd in the base set.

Just my 2 cents...

Geoff

gheintze said:

I got mine as a present so I don't mind it at all but I probably wouldn't have bought it for myself mainly because I really don't want creatures released like that, I like the summary cards. Put them in a box release of their own or put them into new race releases (assuming FFG do the race in a box rather than a few units in smaller releases) and chalk me up as a happy customer. I'd probably even by a box set with a couple of alternative base maps and new tiles (e.g. winter map, next to a big lake), hmm theres an idea a box of 7 hex terrain tiles to create a big hill or lake feature...

Chris

gheintze said:

My only compaint about the Troll Pack was that it did not come with summary cards. We use the troll for a lot of scenarios, not just the maps that came with the troll so I like to have a summary card available when playing the troll. FFG was good enought to publish a copy of the card online and I printed it onto some photo paper so you can't even tell that its not a card. All is good with me now. I really like the scenarios that came with it and love the mechanics of the troll. I was fine with paying $13 for this set but I wouldn't have paid more.