well Robert can't be removed from the game with this sword :http://www.tzumainn.com/agot/cards/card.php?card_id=3928 on him

and then if you want to make it harder in case that one gets removed, put this one on him too: http://www.tzumainn.com/agot/cards/card.php?card_id=3797

its essentially the same thing (yes attachement removal....blah blah) but then you have a ton of stuff to go off.

you still haven't spoken to her power other then her lack of removal...show me the combo that breaks her protect and then maybe i'll argue harder that all should equal all (~ktom gear up )

that is the real problem, people are seeing her as **** near impossile to remove, but I'm not seeing anything that they can do to make her more than frustrating. I mean if she is the only card you have on the table I'm failing to see a problem. I'll take three power characters with some repeatable saves versus her any day.

I might have to come back and eat crow in this thread in a couple of months, but right now... I'm just not seeing it.

also, CS bobby with attachments will get countered by attachemnt removal is an argument against CoCanals.

There is enough attachment removal that atrgets the attachemnt and not the charcater that her text box doesn't matter.

prepare doormouse's and my own crow....please

As a potential crow eater I think it could be beneficial to actually list the Weapon attachments currently available in the LCG environment of which CotC can have one:

F61 Dawn Raven's Song
F43 Burning Sword Change of Seasons
F4 Fishing Net Song of Summer
S1 Ice Core Set
B68 Lightbringer Core Set
T102 Aegon's Blade Core Set
F95 Hunting Spear Battle of Ruby Ford
F100 War Scorpion Battle of Ruby Ford
F12 Icy Catapult War 5 Kings
F20 Dornish Chariot War 5 Kings

Lightbringer is Bara Character only and Fishing Net is a negative ability so she can't use those. I would assume that her controlling player would want her to remain in the game if she is so overpowered which defeats the purpose of Icy Catapult and War Scorpion. Dawn is not so great on any character with only 1 Stregth.

Leaving(+X Str):

Burning Sword(+2): Basically just +2 Str since the ability is redundant
Ice: One time use and doesn't increase her long term effectiveness
Aegon's Blade(+2): Makes her quite scary but out of house as someone already mentioned so together they are costing 6 gold
Hunting Spear(-2 to all characters without weapon): Not sure if it is worth 6 gold for the combo?
Dornish Chariot: No Str increase but could be annoying. Either way I don't think she would be overpowered.

Aegon's Blade seems to be the only real threat and is the obvios choice. I think the merits have already been discussed. I don't see the others being too broken.

It will be interesting to see what the new Needle provides for her but until then we can only speculate about it.

Perhaps I'll throw in my Martell deck just for kicks and giggles, and see how it performs. She is sure to be a nice utility card ooh, and perhaps is undercosted, but is she that much of a threat? There were the CBK decks in Winter block that were perhaps more annoying, and in Stark she doesn't give any kill effects, just stands around and annoys anyone who wants to get rid of her. Time will tell how much of a beast this card is.

ktom, I at one point thought that Keywords were still separate from Card Effects, so that might also be where you got the two of us confused. No apologies necessary.

Yeah - they said the same thing about promo Mance Rayder too. Seriously - almost the same things Lars and dormouse are saying.

An opponent's card that can never be removed by anything you do is leading this game places I don't want to go. I won't beat the horse anymore - after the Jaquen arguments last year, I'll just sit through teh few months of crap with this card and wait for it to get banned or nerfed.

The only real beef that I have with her is what is effectively immunity to plots. I think that is dangerous ground that the game should NOT have gone down. I can only hope that this is the one and only appearance of something this far reaching.

*edit*

Really!?! These boards are so crappy that I can't use standard formatting to make my text italic? REALLY?! And clicking the **** button to do so does nothing. I thought the link insertion into my signature was stupid enough, but REALLY?! This is pathetic.

Kennon said:

The button works for me, but if it doesn't for you the standard Windows commands work (CTRL+I/B/U for what you want done). Hope that helps.

I don't think I've been playing long enough to have a worthwhile view on whether CoC is overpowered ~but under no circumstances should a Stark card *ever* be banned. We probably need to see the new Needle to know just how strong she could be since likely that is the weapon attachment that will best compliment her. But here are my initial thoughts as Stark player. For LCG, I'm likely going to use her as the Core Set Arya is ok, but hasn't excited. In house Intrigue icons for Stark are very sparse in LCG, so I'll generally take it where I can find it. For current standard (as we generally understand it), ITE Arya is almost certainly going to be in my deck and card slots are more precious as there are more cards competing for them, so do I want CoC when it'll get discarded by Arya coming into play? Nope. If I do choose CoC over Arya, using Blade from Dragonstone Forge with her seems most attractive --for 4 gold I have a 3STR tricon with renown in two of three challenge types that isn't going anywhere and can't have power on it removed. Maybe Bara using her out of house with Blade from D. F. is the scariest proposition if you're playing standard.

Well, I'm definitely of the opinion that we should play her before we errata her.

Also... I mean, first impressions, she's very cool, but is it really all that big a deal that your opponent has one untouchable character? Arianne Martell's been halfway there for years and nobody really gave a ****. Plus she powered that whole Martell bounce engine. I mean, people GAVE a **** but it wasn't worth errata-ing. I'm not saying CotC isn't great... but do we NEED to ban all great cards?

Careful, people!

Down that road... lies War Host Of The North! =)

Plus, I just have to add, give Stark a decent card already! Sorry, but my own War Host joke left a bad taste in my mouth.

Eww.

War Host.

Yeah I'm actually a lot less convinced than I was before of her needing an errata in standard format. The two big things I was worried about was with War Scorpion in a Martell deck and with Infamy + Wardens of the Reach in multiplayer. Now I realize War Scorpion won't work like I thought it would and as ktom pointed out she's not immune to everything. There are 5 cards in standard format that can kill her:

• The Red Viper (ITE)
• Pyat Pree
• Venom in the Cup
• Knife in the Back
• Manticore Venom

@Kennon - How did you edit your post? I can't figure out how to do that.

LetsGoRed said:

I meant 5KE Arya. Had to correct that, it was bothering me.

perthius said:

Oh, you can only edit it within some kind of retarded timeframe. It's like 5 minutes or less. I'm unsure of the exact number.

As well, I did try the standard shortcut keys as well. ctrl+i didn't do the trick for me.

The more I try to use these boards, the crappier I realize they are.

Kennon said:

Really, compared to the previous board with NO edit function?

My only complaints are the inability to increase font size and change font color. The hyperlink for web sites was irritating until I learned how it worked, and I like it better, but it does seem most people haven't figured it out yet. Someone should post a helpful hints bit.

Oh, and I also miss being able to display the games Icons in the text field. I loved that about the old, old forums.

Err... which one didn't have an edit function? The ones from the Fall of '02?

The one right before the switch over to this one, from May to late November last year. I could never edit a single one of my posts, ever.

JerusalemJones said:

I think I had to edit every post I ever made at least 5 times or so... especially durring that time. Trust me, it was possible.

Eh, I don't see the big deal. But, then again, I never saw the big deal with Jaquen. He was a thorn in my side, but I never remember losing due to him, or winning either. He would have been overpowered in LCG format I agree...but in Standard he was fine. Maybe since I played a control deck with Assassination at Worlds?

Being immune to plots right now is fairly so-so. Wildfire...Valar...um...

She is a 2/1 tri-con, nothing too crazy. There isn't a ton of search. I see many more problems with balance in other cards right now than her (again, location control and draw for all houses please!).

However, I DO agree that this is a slippery slope, and I hate cards that you have to think of constantly if you are designing a game. They never turn out.

Cat O' the Canals is BUUURRRROOOOKKKKENNN!

Or maybe not.

Bumpity bump bump for giggles

Glad you bumped this. thread. Lars and I were discussing this thread a couple weeks ago during the TLS debate.

~Meh, only 3 pages, and only 1 person wanted errata. Topic hijacked by edit post function, which didn't improved from 2009. Um, good job FFG?

At least three people called for errata or said the card was overpowered.

Has anyone come up with a better use for her than sticking Ice on her for sheer intimidation? That's the best I've ever managed...

Dobbler said:

Only Stag Lord really. Compare this to TLS thread with full of arguments and real combos or to discussion about NE (mature discussion after half year of playing the card).