Yes. Sword & Board is the same way. Since its now irrelevant, we'd just use an equivalent regain 2 fatigue universal effect for any unsolved things.

The defense recharge is the real target. Now that it's gone, those few cards either become irrelevant or they get the universal effect. No worries there.

We also cut down on 3 more cards on the table. Other cards that come to mind are: Ironshield and Ironbeard career cards (auto recharge once per game..we usually just switch such things to a bonus fortune point) and I'm sure there's a talent card out there that matters as well..but nothing springs to the head.

Thanks for finding those

jh

I really understand the issue with "fiddly" bits. WFRP v3 is somewhat of a challenge there.

I GM a group of 6 players, all rank 3 ! We use all rules (I love the party card personally), so the table is quite cluttered. But I managed to streamline all lot of things and we can set up and wrap fairly quickly (20 min. max).

Regarding Active Defenses, I don't really see why removing a token here and there is so complicated, since you need to remove tokens on your other recharging actions anyways. (?) Also, I think WFRP actions are best seen from a dramatics point of view. When we play, we are creating fiction, and in fiction, battles will often be told by stringing together a few key moments. The recharge system strives towards that goal and is pretty good at it I think.

Even if you consider that rounds are multiple blows or not, I can easily brush up the mental image of a hard pressed adventurer hiding behind his shield, sword in front of him, all the while backing off and weaving as much as he can to get away from the pointy bit. It is a bit ridiculous and extreme, but it's a desperate stance and that is why the round after that, dramatically, he will be out of options, his back against the wall, his sword pushed to one side, his shield only protecting as much as it can when held up close to the body...

To tell a good story, you need ebb and flow, ups and downs, triumphs and routs. A rule that makes something permanent is simply anticlimactic. Just say that all characters start off with 1 Defence as default and be done with it... It's just that... it's boring !

The system is geared towards high impact combats with many hits per round. You hit often, as per RAW. Not always of course, but often. To choose to avoid damage one round even at the cost of eventually suffering more on the next is a dramatics decision, it helps tell a vivid story of what this battle is about. It's a gamble, (maybe the opposition will be dead next round...), it's exciting if you make it so.

Heck, even Guarded position is exciting ! It tells the story of the loyal comrade who checks your back in the thick of it. We've all seen this in war films, because it's dramatic and intense. It makes the characters express their loyalties and courage.

Lastly, to describe the V3 combat system to my players (old grognards from v2 and v1), I told them this :

Active Defenses will help you in a duel, you will defend and attack and get hit slightly more often than V2, but not that much.

In a Melee, however, V3 is a bloodbath. You have 3 Active Defenses max, usually one very good, one good and one lame. So if three bandits attack you... You get the picture. There is an equalizer though, if for some reason you need to play defensive, hold the fort or whatnot, and that's the Guarded position action. Three fighters fighting back to back against 9 goblins will probably stand a better chance if one of them has Improved Guarded Position. Its effect is a kind of "permanent defense", a free Challenge die for everyone in the engagement against ALL attacks. Powerful. Dramatic. Exciting. To avoid a bloodbath in melee, V3 forces the players to use teamwork. Brilliant.

Making Active Defense permanent makes Guarded position less important, and it's a big shame IMO.

Find a way to bookkeep Active defenses more easily, instead of changing the rule itself. You could turn the card upside down at the end of the turn when you used it, then turn back rightside up at the end of the following turn, making it ready to be used again ?

Emirikol said:

You forget the chamberlain career ability, the diestro enhance card and a lot of cards where getting boons lets you add or remove tokens. The Judgement cards rely on tokens for damage, and so does the sword master cards. Then you have fast and slow weapons that are also tied to recharge tokens.

It was a big hit at the convention games I just ran (for experienced players..noob's wouldn't know the difference). I'm going to playtest it a bit longer

jh

Quote from this thread :

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=166&efcid=3&efidt=606680&efpag=3

limelight said:

Actually, I REALLY like this idea. I think this will solve my problem with active defenses! I'll drop active defenses cards (but keep the advanced ones) and use your idea in their stead! So, for each fortune die a character has, he can use this amount to add misfortune for defense. From a fluff perspective, using his Str fortune die is parrying, Tou fortunes is blocking and Agl fortunes is dodging. You can't use a fortune die more than once until the start of your next turn so if you have 1 fortune in Str and another in Tou, if you use both die on a single attack, the next attack you won't have any fortune left to use for "active defense". I also like the extra usefullness of stat fortune die because quite frankly, those weren't really good.

Statistically, it makes rank 1 characters less able for active defense than RAW since they won't get as much misfortune die as if they were using all three active defense cards but then after some advancement, they'll get as many and eventually more than what active defenses would give, balacing things up. Also, I'd let starting characters buy fortune die for their stat (you can't do that at the character creation as per RAW). You can add one fortune die for a characteristic at the cost of 1 creation point. I'd restrict characters to 1 fortune die per stat though to make sure they don't go crazy with stat fortune die.

I look at it this way too: A person has something like a 90% chance to get hit in combat, even with two black in defense. Worrying about getting outnumbered, or running out of active defenses takes your chance to get hit from 90% to 97% so I don't really worry about having it constant or not.

That pretty much makes active defenses a joke and not worth tracking. Why bother to track something that's worthless?

Honestly, the only defense that really matters is soak (as we've realized with ironbreakers).

jh

Emirikol said:

While I agree soak is important when you take lots of attacks - but for light armoured (non combat characters) being able to pool 2-3 defensive cards to avoid a nasty hit (or atleast a crit) and then running away - is IMO quite a valid strategy

Light armour +1 misfortune

buckler +1 misfortune

Advance Dodge +1 difficulty

basic block w/o resilience +1 misfortune

basic parry w/weaponskill +2 misfortune dice

Catlike Reflexes +2 misfortune

Dirty Tricks +2 misfortune

= a total of 2 difficulty die + 9 misfortune die & a free disengage if the attacks misses ! (which if you get attacked by a group of 3 guys can save you from the other attacks by utalizing the disengage!) - also do not underestimate the effect of reducing number of successes & boons on an attack, even if you are still hit - avoiding the nasty higher successlines and booneffects can be VERY nice

I believe dirty tricks is an action and not a reaction.

But I agree completely, defenses can rock and the free disengage is awesome if you need it. The way cards and defenses recharge creates more dynamic combat, where it isn't the same each round.

Gallows said:

Im pretty sure dirty tricks IS a reaction - however it is NOT a Active Defense ....

Boehm said:

Yeah that's right, I was thinking about devious maneuvre. You can stack a lot of defense, if you use it all against one attack.

I've been sort of looking at how I can make my swordmaster into a defensive genius, so not just soaking the hits, avoiding them altogether.

I like recharging defenses, from a GM's point of view. Most attacks hit, most of the time, which is why when you over something like an extra challenge dice to players, they fall over backwards trying keep it. My own group is pretty good at defending themselves, someone is always willing to throw out an improved guarded position and our dwarf watchman can take a fair few hits. I've been having more fun since the troll slayer bought it, since now their enemies are alive long enough to do serious damage.