Hi MalikCarr,

Love the work you have put in on both the Guides.

I managed to find a printable version of the 'Galaxy of Guns' on the totalwarguild website, but nothing for the 'Tools of the trade'. Do you have a printable version of it (I do not mind if it isn't printer friendly)?

Many Thanks

Dava

Were this a normal setting, but in 40k, plasma is rare for a reason, it is hard to make, produce, malfunctions and is very tempermental

Not to mention the fact that bolters are of religious significance to Space Marines. Think of samurai swords to the old feudal warriors of Japan. They had become a symbol for the things that the samurai stood for. For a Space Marine, the bark of the bolter is a prayer to the gods of war. Nuff said.

Bolts are stupidly expensive in DH, though… It seems kinda crazy to me.

Another few things I'd like to see:

Specialty bolt shells (Hellfire/Metal Storm/Stalker silenced/Psybolt shells) and shotgun shells (slug, Cryptus shells), as well as Psyflame fuel and Soubiros sanctified las charge packs. Some of these are from Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunter, while others are in Black Crusade or Rogue Trader. If you need help, I'll provide you the pages in the books relevant.

Ripper pistol ammo is ridiculously overpriced. I bet even Hellfire bolts would not be as expensive. Maybe reduce it to 20/shot or 30/shot, or make it 100 Thrones for one magazine instead of one round?

As for the Hack Shotgun, Cymbel thinks that it can be fired one barrel at a time at reduced damage, although the "clip" listing is 1, the fluff describes it as being rigged to fire both barrels at once, and the Inquisitor's Handbook says that it can only fire at reduced damage if it's loaded with one shell.

dava100 said:

Hi MalikCarr,

Love the work you have put in on both the Guides.

I managed to find a printable version of the 'Galaxy of Guns' on the totalwarguild website, but nothing for the 'Tools of the trade'. Do you have a printable version of it (I do not mind if it isn't printer friendly)?

Many Thanks

Dava

Where did you find a printable version of the Macharian Handbook online?

If someone asks for a printable version I give them one, but only on a personal basis. If some dork uploaded one online after I sent it to them in a PM I'm going to have to have some angry words…

OK apparently I have to reply individually to people since pasting in the quote tags on this forum doesn't work. The hell, FFG? Did you guys try and find the most broken and dysfunctional forum platform out there to better replicate the grimdarkness of technology in 40k? <_>

ANYWAY

Cymbel said:

You hit the nail in the head on that one. Plasma weapons themselves are much harder to make than just about any other type of weapon due to the fact that only a few forge worlds really understand how they work, and they guard that data very closely. There's also the substantial risk of the gun blowing up in your hands, which IIRC is much, *MUCH* worse in TT than in 40KRP games. Once you actually *get* a plasma gun, woo and yay for you.

A bolter is a much more accessible weapon, but keeping enough ammo for the thing to actually kill stuff becomes the problem due to the high cost of manufacture of the shells. Insofar as I'm aware, bolts are the only type of ammunition that have to be individually blessed by the forges' Mechanicus staff and then stamped for approval by the Munitorum before they're sent out - that's about the type of treatment that guided missiles get, compared to a guy occasionally inspecting belts full of caseless autogun rounds on a giant assembly line and flicking out ones that look really bad.

Remember, a bolt is basically a miniature missile compared to a stub round, which is your typical piece of metal with a powder charge behind it wrapped in a metallic case that you can produce by the thousands with fairly simple machinery.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

As far as I'm aware most of the specialty bolts made for Space Marines simply don't exist for those wielded by Sisters of Battle and commissars. I've done quite a bit of digging on the matter, so unless you can find something to the contrary I'm sticking with what's already been published.

There's exactly *one* guy who gets a Ripper Pistol and that's SLY MARBO, so I'd have to assume the thing has stupidly costly ammunition to get the sort of awful effects it has. Penetration of a plasma gun, Tearing of a bolter, *and* Toxic of a needler all in one. My body hurts just thinking about what one of those bullets looks like.

As for the hack shotgun, that's… also what my writing says as well. I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring that up.

If a Ripper Pistol is so expensive, I wonder what the cost is for an Exitus rifle.

WAY too much, which makes Ascension Vindicaire VERY silly, when shooting off the most expensive rounds ever at mooks.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

It has no cost as it is never for sale. Entire Officio kill teams would be sent after you if you obtained one and flaunted it, heck even if you used it and there was evidence you had.

I didn't even bother putting the Exitus or its munitions in either of the books purely because you don't buy that stuff. Period. The Vindicare Temple produces those bits internally, hands the weapons and ammunition out, and they get used accordingly. If someone who isn't a Vindicare Assassin has one of those weapons, something horrendously bad has happened.

Dunno if I passed over it or not, but did you include Tox Dispensers? if so how much would they be?

I have an Assassin character who has acquired the Widower, a special variant of a Needler that fires small darts.

In addition to missing the weapon in your lovely book, I also am interested to hear what you (and others) might do with the alternate ammunition types that are only mentioned in the text but not given a mechanical profile.

I suggested letting poison darts add the Toxic quality (similar to the Tox dispenser upgrade for melee weapons) and let explosives darts gain Tearing and change dmg type to X. Thoughts? Care to include this weapon in the next version?

What about porting in the variable lasgun settings from BC? If you assume the +1 damage is full power, the "base" is half power and the +2 Pen 4 is maximum power, it works quite well with most 40k books (besides the ones which have full automatic lasguns as standard)

Oh, did I forget to say "Excellent work, and thanks for sharing!"?

I think I did.

Ahem.

Excellent work, and thanks for sharing!

You should do an 'unobtanium' handbook!

The stats of all of the stuff that you aren't supposed to be able to get…

Exitus Rifles, all the Xenos weapons (from the myriad splatbooks and adventure modules) that don't have prices and availabilities listed for them, stuff like that!

He already did, but it's unobtainable

Ok. It wasn't really that funny…

I chuckled a bit…

Where did you find the Solid Bolts stats, or are those made up?

I think I've failed to provide my feedback on the Macharian Handbook.

I love it.

Nuff said.

Thanks for the great material guys.

There is some inconsistency to the mechanics of shields.

Some provide Cover v ranged attacks, some increase Armour Points on the wielding hand and body (protecting vs both ranged and melee attacks even if you fail your parry), and some (like the Arbites suppression shield) do both.

I can see why only large shields should be used for cover, but why should the Guard and Naval shield not provide APs like the Combat and Suppression shields do? (Granted, the combat shield is a Rogue Trader shield not included in your fabulous handbook, but the point stands).

In addition there is a mistake in the description of the Tower shield, where it is referred to as a Naval shield. (I am guessing a quick cut'n'paste here)

Some fixes/question I found and some observations:

1. Hellgun and Hellpistol should have 50m and 20m for range respecttively, to both match the Ascension Stats AND keep in line with the 5e IG Codex, where hellguns became shorter ranged and enough punch to push through power armor (the pen 7)

2. What about the recharging of lasgun power packs in sunlight? Also, what about the test to recharge them, that seems a bit hard for the average PC to do and it should be pretty simple to do.

3. What made you put the Fatebringer as a handcannon? (and requiring 2 hands to use)

4. Adding a shotgun attachment (like many real world weapons have) similar to the one on the Cadence spectre?

5. The RT Heavy Stubber stats (with 1d10+5) seem to fit the bill better than 1d10+4

6. Could the flametounge Howdah pistol fire shotgun shells as well? (though not generic 12 gauge)

7. Shouldn't the Sacristan Bolt Pistol keep the SB4 to wield in one hand? Bolt Pistols have a different recoil than handcannons, even a souped up one like this

8. With the sensible and much needed nerf to the Fire Bomb, doesn't that leave the Thermal nade as way too expensive with a 60 throne price tag?

9. Do you plan to add shock knuckles? The last game I was in where I got them they cost 200 thrones

10. Why are shock stars so expensive at 350 thrones?

11. Looking over the power armor section again, I really enjoy the alternate longer charge packs, some "idle" mode or light use to extend the times for the twelve hour packs would be good as well

12. If you are SB4 and wielding a bastard sword in 2 hands, would you give them any bonus? One example I have used is +1 damage/+1 pen for SB4+ in two hands

And a final note, it is impossible to list all the wonderful changes, the little details you never notice until you look something up, the great touches of fluff to the entries, the simple fixes that DH needed, the sensible additions of rules. It isn't perfect, but it is amazing and wonderful and such a great resource

Good points all. Okay, I shall itemize them accordingly, then.

1. The hellguns I presented in this were amalgamated between the ones available in The Inquisitor's Handbook as well as Ascension since it seemed to be the closest way to hammer the design out. You raise a very good point about the range, however - the Guard's new "hotshot lasguns" and their pistol counterparts have a much shorter range but also a higher rate of fire, and moreover don't require a backpack power supply. Giving that these weapons only exist in the late 900s of M41 they wouldn't exist in Dark Heresy yet, but I have concocted some stats for them anyway, which I could post here if you're interested.

2. I leave that one up to the GM since there's no real abrogation of how much power solar radiation puts out. On Tallarn you might get a charge pack to refill faster than with a power cable, on Krieg probably not so much. Moreover, I didn't want to try venturing into an area that Black Industires/FFG hadn't even touched at that point since for all I know it could be spectacularly off.

3. No solid projectile weapons that don't use special ammo (e.g. Marbo's Ripper Pistol) or are heavy-caliber weapons (e.g. heavy stubber) natively have any Penetration - except hand cannons. If the Fate Bringer naturally gave you Pen 2 as well as Accurate and Reliable in one go, and you could wield it as easily as your average autopistol too, it sorta makes the Carnodon and Tranter look pretty dumb in comparison, doesn't it?

4. The Spectre's parts appear to be fully integrated, sort of like the M41 Pulse Rifle from Aliens. But no, a door-breaching shotgun has occurred to me, probably giving an effect similar to a shotgun pistol that can be rigged up like an Aux Launcher.

5. Hm, evidently the Koronus Expanse has bigger machine guns than the rest of Calixis. This will require some more research.

6. Wouldn't you just have a more expensive hack shotgun if you did that? Howdah pistols aren't really meant for use in attacking armored opponents in the first place.

7. Oops. You're 100% correct on that one, will add it to my list of necessary fixes.

8. Glad you weren't the only person that realized the supposedly "cheaply made by hand" fire bombs weren't strangely potent. Anyway, 60 was how much they were listed for in The Inquisitor's Handbook and I didn't much feel like changing them.

9. Cheap shock gloves already do basically the same thing except look less thuggish.

10. Shock weapons in general seem to be expensive, and I figured condensing down the power discharge cell into a package light enough to throw but dense enough to do more damage than a shock spike would necessarily require higher quality mechanics and more costly alloys.

11. Variable consumption is something I thought would be good to keep to the rarer and more costly variants of power armor. The generic un-typed breeds always struck me as the type you'd see in the Warhammer comics that are in the employ of guild heavies or a Rogue Trader's dynastic thugs, the sort of thing that's put on in anticipation of head-smashing and then taken off afterwards, meanwhile your Soroitas power armor or Inquisitor-grade artificer armor is practically a uniform in some situations.

12. I was deliberately trying to avoid the D&D thing with bastard swords in this case. However, I should point out that if you have SB 4 a bastard sword *is* the best one-handed sword that you could get in a feudal environs. Your idea is reasonable, but let's compare it to a great weapon now - 2d10 (Unwieldy) vs. 1d10+2… is that really a fair trade-off?

Final note: Thanks! I'm always appreciative of constructive criticism.

Good points all. Okay, I shall itemize them accordingly, then.

1. The hellguns I presented in this were amalgamated between the ones available in The Inquisitor's Handbook as well as Ascension since it seemed to be the closest way to hammer the design out. You raise a very good point about the range, however - the Guard's new "hotshot lasguns" and their pistol counterparts have a much shorter range but also a higher rate of fire, and moreover don't require a backpack power supply. Giving that these weapons only exist in the late 900s of M41 they wouldn't exist in Dark Heresy yet, but I have concocted some stats for them anyway, which I could post here if you're interested.

I know it isn't perfect, but keeping it close to the ascension/only war versions seem closest to the actual hot shot lasguns and make hellguns powerful, but a specialist forces tool with their drawbacks . Also, where did it say that hot-shot lasguns don't have backpacks? I don't remember that in the codex (and it would clash with the stormtrooper models)

2. I leave that one up to the GM since there's no real abrogation of how much power solar radiation puts out. On Tallarn you might get a charge pack to refill faster than with a power cable, on Krieg probably not so much. Moreover, I didn't want to try venturing into an area that Black Industires/FFG hadn't even touched at that point since for all I know it could be spectacularly off.

True, but a guideline would not be bad. Anything to fill in the gap left by FFG, maybe send them a message about it? Maybe a day to charge a power pack or half fill it?

3. No solid projectile weapons that don't use special ammo (e.g. Marbo's Ripper Pistol) or are heavy-caliber weapons (e.g. heavy stubber) natively have any Penetration - except hand cannons. If the Fate Bringer naturally gave you Pen 2 as well as Accurate and Reliable in one go, and you could wield it as easily as your average autopistol too, it sorta makes the Carnodon and Tranter look pretty dumb in comparison, doesn't it?

Oh, I can see that easily, but it was also described as a long, ungainly, limited ammo and not a preferred weapon. I can see it being in that class though, but it just feels a bit off to class it as one.

4. The Spectre's parts appear to be fully integrated, sort of like the M41 Pulse Rifle from Aliens. But no, a door-breaching shotgun has occurred to me, probably giving an effect similar to a shotgun pistol that can be rigged up like an Aux Launcher.

Oh yeah, the Spectre is a one package deal, however some GMs let the shotgun be swapped out for an Aux GL or other similar upgrade, fitting with the elite nature of the gun. And on the other point, it just is something that feels missing from DH and would be a great acolyte upgrade for versatility

5. Hm, evidently the Koronus Expanse has bigger machine guns than the rest of Calixis. This will require some more research.

Yeah, I would lean towards the newer books overall for "corrected" statlines, like Laspistols being S/2/- for the base model (which does give it a nice boost)

6. Wouldn't you just have a more expensive hack shotgun if you did that? Howdah pistols aren't really meant for use in attacking armored opponents in the first place.

Pretty much and yeah, they aren't. But a PC of mine won one in a marksmanship match against a noble who bet one of his prize guns and she bet her best one. It was a bit of a white elephant, too nice to shoot, too expensive to shoot with and not ideal. Still, she enjoys having one of these guns,

8. Glad you weren't the only person that realized the supposedly "cheaply made by hand" fire bombs weren't strangely potent. Anyway, 60 was how much they were listed for in The Inquisitor's Handbook and I didn't much feel like changing them.

I am also glad you removed the ability to fire them from Grenade Launchers, that made them utterly ridiculous beyond what they were before. I think 30 is a nice price, still expensive, but not so much that you never use them.

9. Cheap shock gloves already do basically the same thing except look less thuggish.

Well, Intimidation is important for some acolytes, so is having a harder hitting weapon (1d5 vs 1d10). Together they fill both gaps, folks who want a simple "cloth" one and those who want something heavier. By the way, what did you think of the shock glove quality and appearance?

10. Shock weapons in general seem to be expensive, and I figured condensing down the power discharge cell into a package light enough to throw but dense enough to do more damage than a shock spike would necessarily require higher quality mechanics and more costly alloys.

On the other hand it would also be one shot generators, thrown, energy expended and then (hopefully) collected and recharged, whereas normal shock weapons have to operate for a longer time with multiple hits

11. Variable consumption is something I thought would be good to keep to the rarer and more costly variants of power armor. The generic un-typed breeds always struck me as the type you'd see in the Warhammer comics that are in the employ of guild heavies or a Rogue Trader's dynastic thugs, the sort of thing that's put on in anticipation of head-smashing and then taken off afterwards, meanwhile your Soroitas power armor or Inquisitor-grade artificer armor is practically a uniform in some situations.

I see what you mean, but giving them a couple extra hours or the ability to swap out powerpacks extends the versatility of those armors.

12. I was deliberately trying to avoid the D&D thing with bastard swords in this case. However, I should point out that if you have SB 4 a bastard sword *is* the best one-handed sword that you could get in a feudal environs. Your idea is reasonable, but let's compare it to a great weapon now - 2d10 (Unwieldy) vs. 1d10+2… is that really a fair trade-off?

In what sense? The great weapon is much stronger, but also limits you. With a bastard sword you can wield it in both for a more powerful blow, switch to one hand and parry while you draw out a nade or activate something. I feel the strength of the bastard sword is in its flexibility, part of it being a hand and a halfer (Plus the D&D thing would be 2 hands = 1.5x SB, which is a neat idea, but too complex and easily broken)

Final note: Thanks! I'm always appreciative of constructive criticism.

No problem! I am glad you took the time to make this and the effort to keep it a WIP and always improving!

1. Do you see a cable feed going to any of these guns? The hotshot lasguns seem to actually be running off normal charge packs.

As far as my understanding of the situation goes, the hotshot lasgun is a separate and distinct weapon from the hellgun, with the former replacing the latter and trading some firepower for a higher rate of fire and better handling. With that being the case, if you're looking at a game set in the 900s, or perhaps pre-Munitorum-approved versions, I'd not be against putting those in some edition.

2. Something like that, anyway.

3. The Fate Bringer might be large but it's far from ungainly, which is why it's a popular dueling pistol - it looks nice, has a smooth action, and kills what you shoot it at. Pity about how only Basic weapons get the extra damage from Accurate though.

4. I agree with most of your points here.

5. I wouldn't necessarily consider Rogue Trader's weapons being "corrected" per se. RT was happy enough to give superfluous pattern designations to guns that show up in the Koronus Expanse, so I broadly backported these over into the Macharian Handbook where appropriate. Generic laspistols only fire single shots, but many of the rarer patterns have more fire settings. Another good example of this is RT's Locke-pattern boltgun - it's the only regular bolt weapon with a full auto setting, excluding Astartes versions of course. Even the Godwyn-De'az from Blood of Martyrs (a newer book that RT, I should point out) hasn't got that. Obviously it's a very particular variant.

6. If a GM's feeling clever then there's no real excuse for not having some kind of Exotic ammo available to make slug-throwers shoot some kind of weird ammunition type, like "buck-and-ball" loads for shotguns. It's an advantage they have over lasguns - there's only so many ways to make a focused beam of light, but a man with the right tools and a sadistic streak can make all kinds of bullets and cartridges.

8. Well, a Poor Craftsmanship one would cost that much - it just has a slightly higher chance of blowing up before you want it to.

9. The hell kind of knuckle duster does as much damage as a mace? The standard ones I got out of the Inquisitor's Handbook do 1d5-1 - the only reason you'd ever want to use them is because they deal technically two more damage than using your bare hands, and moreover, aren't more likely to knock someone out (Fatigue from unarmed attacks). They're great weapons for gangers and that's about it.

10. A shock star's always able to zap people, and moreover it's kind of a specialty weapon as it is - all of the odd throwing weapons are. Compare that to the power discus, for example. Personally I'm not really sure why these weapons even exist other than to provide for some kind of use to the Thrown Weapon (Shock/Chain/Power) talents. You'll note that there's no weapon that actually uses these in any of the core Dark Heresy books, I had to bring them over from Rogue Trader's Into The Storm.

11. My perspective has always been that if you want power armor, be ready to pay. If you want it to be useful for things besides a battle, be ready to pay more. "Mass produced" power armor like the generic patterns listed don't really have a lot of secondary characteristics presumably to keep costs down as compared to the more exquisite models like the Ignatus.

12. Hear me out on this one. Compared to a standard sword, a bastard sword has +1 Damage and +1 Penetration for the loss of the Balanced quality. However, unless you have a high Strength Bonus, you have to use two hands to wield it. Of the generic Feudal weapons you'd be better off using a flail unless you can one-hand it, which is kind of the point, I suspect. Moreover, I notice you haven't really griped about the power longsword either - for a two-handed weapon that thing gives you exactly 1 more point of Damage over the standard power sword. A single point in each direction is a pretty big deal for melee weapons, or so the books seem to suggest. After all, an axe only gives you an extra 1 damage compared to a sword, but it actually takes a *penalty* to parry.