If you're spending a bunch of time and money to attend an official national tournament, I really don't see why you wouldn't talk about potential legal cards -- released or unreleased. Also, this thread IS suppose to be about the implications of the new FAQ and tournament rules document...

Furthermore, those not wanting discussion about unreleased cards -- please don't share any comments in the future on spoiled cards (by FFG or otherwise) until they are officially out. Probably shouldn't even read the spoiler articles because really -- what would be the point?

As for the FAQ update, I think everything is fine. Thought a bit more could have been done, but I guess since the 4th chapter pack won't be legal for GenCon (bummer, it's Regionals all over again) FFG felt they could wait on a few things until after the tournaments are over.

Stag Lord said:

Well, people have been proxying these cards as part of their GenCon preparation for weeks, so it's probably no big surprise that they talk about them. Still, I don't like these massive amounts of really early spoilers much, either, and I would hope FFG don't give out those uncut sheets as prizes anymore. I don't hold my breath, though, because they're likely very cheap prizes...

Competitively speaking, full-cycle/box spoilers are a very good thing. it levels the information playing field and allows for more time for players to create decks. It also brings focus and attention to issues sooner rather than later (i.e. when Oldtown was first spoiled by FFG months ago, I posted how At The Gates/Luwin would be a problem...and it was ).

Ratatoskr said:

Don't get me started on the prizes again. what I wouldn't give for some limited edition House Cards, Power Tokens, or Gold Counters

FATMOUSE said:

True, but is that always a good thing? Early in-depth analysis and wide dissemination of information takes away from inventive and creative players the chance to capitalize on their findings. Everybody packs the same tricks and combos because they read about them on the fora instead of learning them the hard way. Variability in deckbuilding takes a hit, no?

jack merridew said:

I do get Stag's wry attitude toward the people lamenting the absence of cards from the Gencon card pool -- that were not in the card pool yet, anyway. People jumped the gun with their preparations by making an assumption. The assumption turned out to be wrong. No big deal, but it does give those of us who are competitive without the need to find and exploit every potential advantage a smile at the expense of all those who are "rethinking my Gencon deck" because certain cards will not be available.

Ratatoskr said:

Proxying in the cards and playing the entire environment "early" is one thing (and what I think people were trying to do when assuming Oldtown #4 would be Gencon legal), but heated verbal analysis of spoiled cards based on their appearance without actual play experience in the full environment bores me to tears.

jack merridew said:

The latest game night kit takes the cake, really. I mean, patches? But let's not derail the thread.

Regarding the FAQ, the one thing that I'd still like to see is a reason not to run Maester's Path in any and every agenda-less deck. Don't know if anything should be done about it now, but I do wish they'd pack some cards into the next cycle that reward you for not running an agenda or buff you if your opponent is running one.

Speaking of A Tale of champions - how far does everybody think the design process is? Are they basically done deciding which cards are going to be in it, or is there still room for new additions?

Ratatoskr said:

If they are putting up art and spoilers of cards from the set on the FFG site, the set is locked and at least with the translators, if not the printers.

Twn2dn said:

No one has mentioned the Alliance Agenda update. I assume the new working "place" implies that the no-penalty applies during setup now as well.

perpetual noob said:

Maybe you didn't read the thread.....

perpetual noob said:

Indeed

@Goshdarnstud: You might be right, some players will definitely go with Burning instead. I'm guessing though that most Summer Martell decks will be variants of the version run by FiniteSquarewell at the DC regionals, which was also spoiled in several places online. That version ran only 2x Burning, while it ran 3x VB. Seems to me, it's easier to pull Burning from that version. And even if most players prefer Burning over VB, there are still at least *some* people playing VB, and these people likely would have played Burning, wouldn't they? So either way, "yes" there will be fewer people playing Burning. I think this is a very safe assumption.

@Ktom: I think you partially missed my point, though no doubt because I worded my argument awkwardly. You're right that myself and others may have jumped the gun about specific cards, like Baelor or Prince's Plans, and it definitely would have been presumptous to build combo-decks based around these cards. But my main point was not really about individual cards. Rather, it's that with fewer cards from this block in the environment, it's going to feel a lot more like the May regionals environment all over again. July cards aren't legal, and some of the key/defining cards from the June regionals won't be legal (At the Gates for Luwin, Pycelle). In other words, 25% of the cards one might attach to the Maester's Path (an agenda I expect to see quite a bit of) won't be legal when they are out, and 20 new cards, some of which would have helped underdog houses (including in-house maesters for houses that haven't already received them) will be illegal.

I do expect some innovation from May of course. But variety and creativity at GenCon really took a hit, even if (ostensibly) for balance purposes.

FATMOUSE said:

FATMOUSE said:

Thanls for making my point for me. i'm really unimpressed with "testing" based on proxies of spoiled cards - unless you ahve ALL the cards proxied that will eb available at the time of release. Generally this is not the case ( though it was in this nistance). But even then - you don't know if the cards will see print the way they have been spoiled so I find disucssion of cards that aren't released yet unproductive and a waste of time. So unless you have a whole set spoiled - like you suggest, admittedly, i reamin skepticla abbout any sweeping "metagame analysis" of spoiled cards.

ktom said:

Really well said. ser.

I think everyone can agree, the Night's Watch builds took the biggest hit here.

Twn2dn said:

Twn2dn said:

I definitely agree with this Dan, though I can imagine there is some concern that people might not have access to the product... assuming FFG is worried they will sell out of their stock at GenCon before anyone tourney-bound can get a copy. It does make me wish that the cycles were running August to January, and February to July, dropping early in the month. I realize that's pie-in-the-sky, but it would show us a full cycle available at GenCon... two chapter packs difference between Regionals and Championships, and the possibility of an early release of the first of a new cycle at the Con.

Anybody wonder if they'll start another round of House Boxes after this... or come up with another concept.

I'm going to bring a deck with 6 TLS just to show you how unrestricted it should be.

Martell and GJ were to supplement the core set with new houses, and not as expansions on the houses. Personally, I would not be surprised to see a Lanni box, a GJ box, and a Martell box to complete the "cycle." It is only fair. Look at the overall card count

Stark: 150
Baratheon: 150
Targaryen: 148
Lannister: 109
Greyjoy: 100
Martell: 101
Neutral: 344

(including reprints, so Drogo's tent is counted as 2, not 1. But you get the idea)

Mathias Fricot said:

Agreed... though depending on the composition of the next chapter pack cycle, I'll be curious to see what kind of relative strengths we'll see the houses at, and what kind of themes we might see in those last two (if that's the direction they take).

And thanks for the math... I was wondering where things stood.

Mathias Fricot said:

Yes, I agree with this. Popular speculation is that the Lannister box is next (I'm one who believes this as well), but to complete the cycle I still think Greyjoy and Martell are due an expansion before going on to whatever is next in the plans. Their boxes only introduced them to the game. They were not full expansions like Stark, Baratheon, and Targaryen received.

Twn2dn said:

I read through the changes in the latest FAQ, but didn't see anything about the upcoming Baelor being "lost". Did I miss something?

The 4th Chapter Pack is not legal for Gencon.

So Riders on the Red Fork can still be searched by At the Gates out of any House yes?