Hi guys!

Not posting that much as I used to do, but I lurk and follow your precious leads and suggestions!

Here I am posting an old love...Now, it's time to make it work in a "competitive" way.

As you may have noticed, Verena is the strongest deck in our country and it's nearly unbeatable...Orc Reanimator/Control is another option, as well as Dwarves and both Elves, from time to time...

THIS deck is pretty "basic", actually: early drops, some HP control, insidious units, a bunch of finishers and a solid selection of tactics to steal what I manage to "mill and destroy".

Pretty simple and solid, it behaves good, but I didn't test it that much...

I'd really like to work on it to make it a competitive deck.

Check it out!

UNITS 27

3x Walking Sacrifice (draw +1, early defense)

3x Cold One Knights (good defense)

3x Cold One Riders (finisher, resource boost/defense)

3x Vanguard of Woe (easy sacrifice, early drop)

3x Vile Sorceress (hp control)

3x Druchii Noble (finisher)

3x Seasoned Corsair (hp control)

3x Skeletal Horde (easy defense, easy sacrifice)

3x Wight Lord (must)

SUPPORTS 12

3x Warpstone Excavation (must)

3x Contested Village (must)

3x Har Ganeth (comboes with Walking Sacrifice, hp control related)

3x Dark Abyss (deck discard, early drop)

TACTICS 15

3x A Slave for Evrery Occasion (steal what you mill/destroy)

3x Seeking New Slaves (steal what you mill/destroy)

3x We Need Your Blood (hp control)

3x Lash The Prisoner (boost)

3x Beguile (hp control related removal)

QUESTS 2

2x Infiltrate! (deck discard)

TOT: 56

What do you think?

Thanks for posting your deck. It looks pretty good at first sight. Have you tested it more by now? Only thing that caught my attention now was Slave Pen is missing. Maybe drop the Dark Abbys card, though that card does combo well with Seeking new Slaves

From a competitive standpoint you have a lot of lackluster units in your decklist. The staple units for DE are all utility or removal types. You probably just want to stick to one unit + Wight lord for your beaters. Slave pens is a must have, as is whip the slaves. Naggaroth is a popular finisher, but its not a super solid choice against will of the electors. Black guard aspirant is also an old favorite, and if you are running hexes or soul stealer (which I recommend) he'll be a good source of hammers. You might also want to consider mortella, nothing says "i love you" like a friendly infiltrate or demolish. If you want to stress the discard from deck aspect id reccommend picking up the new DE unit from the most recent BP.

If you are interested in a filter/control DE deck I have posted a list here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=155&efcid=4&efidt=423626
The thread has a lot of good comments regarding DE in general and not just the particular list in the OP.

Overall I think your current list is a good starting point, but you will want to fine tune what exactly you want the deck to do. You have some elements of control, but also have the discard thing going on a little. Deffinitely drop some of the less than stellar units like the cold ones, they really do nothing for you other than clog your deck up.

Thanks, at first...

According to some of your advices, a bit of auto-testing and to the restricted list, I've rebuilt it this way (not the ultimate list, but just a new one...It seems like it's not so different, but It does).

UNITS 27

3x Walking Sacrifice

3x Vanguard of Woe

3x Vile Sorceress

3x Corsairs of Ghrond

3x Seasoned Corsair

3x Druchii Noble

3x Witch Hag

3x Cold One Knight

3x Wight Lord

SUPPORTS 15

3x Warpstone Excavation

3x Contested Village

3x Har Ganeth

3x Slave Pen

3x Dark Abyss

TACTICS 12

3x We Need Your Blood

3x Lash The Prisoner!

3x Seeking New Slaves

3x A Slave For Every Occasion

QUESTS 2

2x Infiltrate!

TOT: 56

Still the same concept and numbers (almost), but different changes: out Cold one Riders for Ghronds for more hp control (I used to play CoR in the BZ so, no changes in the gameplay)...Out the necromancy puppy for Witch Hag (more discard).

LEss tactics, more supports (Slave Pen finds place pretty well for Walking Sacrifices, Wight Lord and Woes).

What do you think?

Up again for some more changes...

UNITS 27

3x Walking Sacrifice

3x Vile Sorceress

3x Vanguard of Woe

3x Seasoned Corsair

3x Corsairs of Ghrond

3x Witch Hag

3x Frenzied Witch Elf

3x Cold One Knights

3x Wight Lord

SUPPORTS 17

3x Slave Pen

3x Contested Village

3x Dark Abyss

3x Warpstone Excavation

3x Witch Hag's Curse

2x Har Ganeth

TACTICS 12

3x Lash The Prisoner!

3x We Need Your Blood

3x Seeking New Slaves

3x A Slave For Evrery Occasion

QUESTS 2

2x Infiltrate!

TOT: 58

In a deck like this I'm tryin' not to care about cards number...It's not a combo deck and the "toolboxing" appeal pushes over the limit...

What do you think? Is a bit more focused on discard/hp control...Not the ultimate deck, but it seems a good starting point...Or not?

I was not that confident about Witch Hag because in actual play the effect is not much and multiple ones don't stack as Dark Abyss does. Also think that Infiltrate doesn't run good with destruction side. Mainly because they don't have cheap units that can be played into quest and can't protect them well while questing. Walking Sacrifice and Fledging Chaos Spawn would be ok but they are fragile or are getting removed when Infiltrate kicks in. I also think that Mortella is a must in a deck that is discarding. Being able to play Innovations and Long Winter for free is good and if good tactics are plopping into discard pile without being play that's all better. It further makes the opponents decision harder when you are using Vangards of Woe, he probably won't choose units if you are keeping resources and if he chooses a tactic he has to wary that it might be used against him.

Today I playtested one game DE discard vs empire but my focus was about Plague Monks, Shades and Frenzied Witch Elf. Wasn't successful as the moving mechanic + Chain Lightning completely shut my key units down. I will try your Version with slight tune.

Why aren't you using Shades? Isn't hand attack useful in a discard deck? If the opponent doesn't have much cards he wants to draw more and making it easier for you to follow your goal in decking himself out. I also thought about a deck that has some discard theme while being defensive and preventing getting crushed before the opponent draws the last card. It can work against decks that don't have that much units. If you can remove the big hitters and discard some units along the road, some decks don't have the potential to do enough damage to burn developed and defended zones.

grille said:

Thanks for being here, at first.

I try to explain my choices (not to justifie them, 'cause I am here to get some feedbacks and think using your inputs and nothing's for sure):

- I'm a "controller" inside and I like to have fun...I say this 'cause and dominant factor in my playstyle/deckbuilding is the "pshicological" factor...Havin' a small guy on Infiltrate (2x 'cause I don't want it early game) in a deck like this, means that the oppo has a tough choice: kill the small, insignificant guy (let's say, Sacrifice) or use the removal for the one that's discarding 2 cards per attack (just an example)? It seems stupid, but it is not...If you kill the attacker, I still focus on discarding...If you kill the small guy, I draw and, maybe, I'll put another one...

Vanguard of Woe is there for the same reason...Not that powerful...Almost useless...But it's a 2 cost and has a "death" effect...Let's say you have a removal (Orc Rush): I've Vile Sorceress, the Woe's on Infiltrate! and another guy in the KZ...Will you kill Woe'S? If you started as an Orc Rush should, you lose one of the 2 cards left in your hand...But is it a great deal? The Sorceress will go on killing (or help killin') your small guys...

You see? I'm totaly insane. It's useless but...Hey, it's totally funny!

Anyway, sorry for this little OT, but I wanted to share this derangement. Now I'm happy.

- Shades: I was thinkin' about 'em...I can change 'em with Woe's...Same cost...Not good for KZ or QZ, but still a good start, even, let's say, after a mulligan..I'll try 'em out!!!

- Mortella: like the "steal stuff" idea, but I preferred not to put her in just because I had to focus on discard and UNITS stealin' (SnS and ASfeO). Nothing's better than killin' someone with his own guys.

I've no finishers in the deck...I've just WIghts, 'cause I try to mill the oppo...And against Soul Stealer, I'm stronger than the average Dark Elf deck...I've no finishers.

SnS and AsfeO allow me to play without finishers and to get an alternative winning condition using mine primary winning condition (mill).

Anyway, I've to try a couple of Mortella too, one day or another.

- Don't you like Witch Hag? It's not that powerful, but it's still a unit and a mill (and potentially a "trigger" for my unit-stealin' effects)...What you'd suggest (remembering that I'll try shades in place of Woe's)?

Thanks again!

No no I really like Woes (at best together with Shades) because they combo great with the standard Har Ganeth, Vile Sorc stuff out when there is no other target and I totally agree that you don't need finisher in a discard deck. Why should you? ^^ Your opponent will deck himself before you do and it's more about how to "not loose" until this happens. If there are opportunities with slavery to put the pressure on then I won't say no Just like you I also put Wight Lord into the deck solely for the purpose to get rid of the guys that matter and so stretching the game into length.

I will try Infiltrate to renew my older experiences. I think I'll also give Dark Initiate a chance as they go good with Dwarf Slaves in starting hand.

You could change Witch Hag for Mortella. Both of them would only hurt because you can only uncorrupt 1 unit a turn as long as you don't play Chillwind. In my deck it was also a spell which was good for Plague Monks. I had a few games with 2 Monks and by playing some Chillwinds and Dark Visions (play Dark Visions and "find" a Dark Vision hrhr) they were one of most effective discard tools I had seen before. Problem is to get them constantly and sometimes they won't come to hand.

As I don't play tournaments, here a quite competitive deck (even if it's quite an headache to play it correctly):

3 Offering to Hekarti
3 Walking Sacrifice
3 Warpstone Excavation
3 Ancient Map
3 Bloodburn Poison
3 Call the Blood
3 Contested Village
3 We Need Your Blood
3 Dark Abyss
3 Har Ganeth
3 Infiltrate!
3 Sacrifice to Khaine
3 Vile Sorceress
3 Frenzied Witch Elf
3 Jezzail Team
3 Seasoned Corsair
3 Sorcerer of Tzeentch

The only problem is that it's quite a pain to explain how it should be played,so I'll let you guess, just one thing: to play it properly, you need two offering to hekarti on the table.

Hi! Before I post my new version (totally experimental ) let me guess the aim of your deck: I see lots of removal and a bit of mill effect...The Offering works just with units dying from play...I see the mill effects as a winning condition..Remove everything that hits the table.

I see it as a pretty consistant anti-rush deck (or even against small empire units). With 2 offerings and a single Sorcerer, the oppo cannot see its units on the table for more than a turn (that's what it seems).

Funny deck!

I'll update my thread with a new "idea"...The core is the same, but a bit different in the core...The basic idea is not MINE, but of a friend of mine (thanks Jos )...The thing is to have an "aggro component" with a single rule: "not a single card with a cost higher than 2".

I modified it to "nothing with a costo higher than 3" just to have more flexibility and, in general, more hp control.

Here it is:

UNITS 27

3x Shades (hand control...I'd put in some "caught the scent"...)

3x Alluring Chosen (powerful with a mill deck...good as a finisher or as a boost in "phase 0" with Dark abyss)

3x Frenzied Witch-Elf (mill)

3x Witch-Hag (mill)

3x Seasoned Corsair (hp control)

3x Corsairs of Ghrond (hp control)

3x Vile Sorceress (hp control)

3x Walking Sacrifice (draw, immediate boost for slave pen, loyalty control)

3x Sorceress of Ghrond (get back the hex after you clean up!)

TACTICS 12

3x Sacrifice to Khaine (removal for big guys when they're alone)

3x We need your Blood (hp control)

3x Seeking new Slaves (optimizes mill effects)

SUPPORTS 18

3x Contested Village (boost)

3x Warpstone Excavation (boost)

3x Witch-Hag's Curse (destroys Pistoliers, Wilhelm, Iseara, Lord of Change, Dwarf Ranger, etc.)

3x Mind Killer (de-boost, get some advantage in the early turn)

3x Dark Abyss (mill)

3x Slave Pen (boost)

QUESTS 2

2x Infiltrate! (mill)

TOT. 56

It's the "usual" 56 cards deck... I don't need any particoular interaction, so it's not an issue.

I've to try it before any consistant criticism, but I'd really like what you think about it...the deck seems to work well turn 2 or even turn 1, with a bunch of good overtures. When it starts, then you'll pull out 2+ cards per turn and every card has its own utility effects: 3-4 utilities are deadly in a game like this, especially if you think that to stop it you have to invest lots more money than the resources I need to give you some headache with mill/hp reduction.

It's an "evil" deck...

I'll try the "no more than 2" version...It works very well and can compete with different opponents...

I'll let you know...Now, let ME know your ideas.

DB

Can you think of a good deckbuild that works with Malekith?
Perhaps combo'ing with the undead cards or 'pure' DE?

Here's mine Malekith based deck

Units:

3x Wight Lord
3x Alluring Chosen
3x Vile Sorceress
3x Thief of Essence
3x Seasoned Corsair
3x Walking Sacrifice
3x Shades

Legends:

2x Malekith

Tactics:

3x Innovation
3x Hate
3x Sacrifice to Khaine
3x Black Horror

Quests:

3x Offering to hekarti

Supports:

3x Har Ganeth
3x Numberless Graves
3x Slave Pens
3x Contested Village

As you can see, this deck is focused on unit killing/removing from play.

Interesting.

A few questions about your DE deck:

1) Why Black Horror?

2) For slave pens do you also sacrifice your 2 cost units or is it mostly reserved for your walking sacrifices?

3) Why sacrifice to Khaine and not another destructive spell?

1) Black horror - Most of my opponents are Empire players, and Black Horror helps me to deal with nasty 2-cost units.
Sometimes i use it in combination with Sacrifice to Khaine to trick my opponents(To bypass Iron Discipline) (For Example: My opponets has 2 units in play - 1 high cost unit and 1 low. I use black horror on low cost unit and after it leaves play, i cast Sacrifice to Khaine to kill high cost unit. (StK doesnt target unit, so Churches of Sigmar and Iron Discipline cant block it)

2) Mostly I sacrifice Walking Sacrifices and Wight Lords, but sometimes extra draw is needed, so Corsairs and Sorceress can also be used for higher purposes =)

3) I've mentioned, that StK bypass Empire cancelling abilities, also it is useful against reanimator decks.
And finally StK boosts Malekith's action, which is really nice in conjuction with Thief of Essence.

And sry for my bad english =(

Np you're being most helpful. I appreciate it.

I can see your reasoning now. My brother and I mostly just play Dwarves (he) and I Chaos or Dark Elves. For multiplay we tend to make a fourth deck usually High Elves or Orcs. Hence I'm not used to such 2 cost units

I rather like your approach. I ordered a third box of the base set as to my annoyance I don't have a 3rd Vile Sorceress (who I always put in a DE deck)

I'm going to give it a try. My deck is going to be similar to yours but not quite the same. I'm eager to see if it works well

Severance,

I like the look of your DE build. How has 'Hate' work for you so far? Its a card that has fallen out of favor recently, but it seems like it could be a good way to stop a 'Will of the Electors'/'Judgment of Verena' play if they are running tight on resources.

Also, how has 'Numberless Graves' worked out for you thus far? Its a card I always thought looked potentially pretty strong. It has underperformed for me when I've tried to use it in the past.

I'm always wary of playing a deck with no support destruction. Do you think that 'Burn it Down' could fit in here? It would probably be tough to support both it and 'Innovation' especially without 'Dwarf Slaves'. Maybe a x2 'Mortella' would be a better call. Perhaps supports have not been a problem for you.

This deck looks pretty strong. Of course the constant DE weak point is that they have a pretty weak offense. I always seem to get the game locked down and then try to swing in for the win with 'Seasoned Corsairs' and 'Shades' which will sometimes give my opponent time to recover. Maybe the addition of Malketh can close this gap, though I'd love to have 'Clan Moulders Elite' in here if there was room.

TL

I personally like Burn It Down in DE more than any other deck. You have so many tools to hit units in Kingdom/Quest that you don't want to give them an out when you hit the nuts removal draw. Withering Hex is pretty good, too... running just two, you very rarely draw it without a target. Also, you almost always want to run Soul Stealer or Warpstone over Innovation, so putting developments in the battlefield isn't a huge deal. You might even want to toss the first one there to turn on Naggaroth Spearmen. There are a *few* DE builds that might want to run Innovation to play combat tricks on opponents' turns, but I don't think they're really the best builds right now.

Malekith is interesting... I haven't tested DE post-legends. One thing I like about him is that loyalty is not too much of an issue for DE compared to some of the other races.

Vitamin T said:

1) Hate is a nice card when played on first turns (to slow down your opponent) or as a combo breaker (Will of Electors + Verena and so on).
But it becomes a total coaster in the mid/late game. Im stil unsure of its usefulness tbh.

2) Numberless Graves is working perfect in this build. It gives you a decent card draw (since unit killing is a main focus in this deck), but
with Thief of Essence in play it becomes even more usefull.

3) There is no use for Burn it Down in this deck since I have Innovation, and it forces my to develop Kingdom most of the time.
After some playtesting, I figured that DE resource boosting mechanism is very weak at the moment (compared with Empire or even Chaos combos) - so replacing Innovation with Warpstone Excavation isn't a big deal. Only one thing stops me from doing that - majority of local players are Empire players.

4) Burn it Down - great card, and without Innovation in deck, its obvious choice to pick up. I'll think about it.

5) I used to play Mortella in almost any DE deck that i've build on. But again, after a long playtesting i figured some big disadvantages of this naked lady:
First - Zone specific action - Its funny how this card becomes useless, when its moved to the other zones. Since most of my games was against Empire players - Mortella was the main target for Force march/ Wilhelm.
Second - Not so great output when played against non-Empire players (most of the tactics cast by you doesn't give the same advantage / some of them are race specific / or even facing a deck with lack of tactics)
Third - Loyalty cost (Yes, I know that loyalty isn't a huge problem for DE, but i had some bad hands where extra loyalty cost ruins a day)
Fourth - psychological effect. After the first game against this deck, most of skilled players end up developing their tactics, just to prevent them to be used by Mortella. And since "Long Winter" tactic, this trick becomes a reliable choice.

6) I'm still thinking about adding 3rd Malekith - it needs some playtesting.

7) Clan Moulder's Elte gives a nice aggro generation, but this deck focuses on total unit slaughter (using all known combos).
Weak offence in this deck is compensated with massive unit destruction, In most cases, I win not because of destroying opponent's capital, but when I have 2 Hekarti's quest on the table. The main idea of this deck is to kill enemy units as fast as you can, play some Wight lords and Alluring chosen, and methodically damaging opponent's capital.

Definitely agree on Hate: it ranges from amazing to the worst card in your deck depending on when you draw it. I like it a little bit better in builds that *really* try to put the screws on early resource/draw. Or that have one-cost tactics to play with the barrel.

I can see Innovation being more useful with the Lengend in there. Without the legend, it hasn't been a super card for me in DE. You have a lot of cheap stuff and often don't want to develop every turn. If you want to go as far as running Dwarf Slaves and Treasure Vaults, maybe. Warpstone has not been a bad card for me against Empire: it almost always comes down to who can shut down the opposing Quest zone first, and Warpstone helps you win that battle. Corrupting guys in the battlefield doesn't usually matter that much (especially if Malekith is the finisher, I would think). Still, I can see how Innovation might be needed for getting Malekith out.

Mortella is a close call... she was always on the bubble for me. I like her a bit better if you have Chillwind to get extra activations, but it usually just comes down to the drawn and matchup. Although, if players are purposefully NOT playing tactics because they know you're playing her, I would probably keep a single copy in there.

Clan Moulders seem like a decent idea, but they just don't represent a fast enough clock without other cheap, aggressive units to complement them. You also really want all of your guys to be able to go to Quest in a pinch. They're a bit better if you're running Soul Stealer, as that gives you a way to get another aggro unit...

Why is no one running Dark Visions ?

Aside from chittering hoarde this is the best search in the game. It is an automatic 3 of in any dark elf deck I play.

I do frequently play "Dark Visions". I think that it is a pretty solid card and in many games a card like that would be a auto include. In W:I it is easy enough to just use your resources to play something allowing you to draw an extra card every turn that it sometimes doesnt make the cut.

TL

I only run it when I try to max Plague Monk's effect. Although it is not a bad card in turn 1 where I usually have 1 resource over if I'm unlucky with Contested Village, there more attractive cards for the tactics section when playing DE. Also agree on the points that Vitamin T listed.

In a "basic dark elf control deck" I can see lots of different choices for a 1/2 cost card...Dark Visions is a strong card, I like it a lot, but I quit playin' it in my last versions of DE decks when I realized that it's a lot better in decks where you need particular sinergies...Normally, I prefer to put in a removal or something that grants some more board control...Dark Vision is "one card for one card", no real card advantage, just a nice search engine to get quickly the cards you need to lock down the oppo.

In a control deck like the one I'm workin' on on this thread (thanks for every single post and for other version posted!) I can't really find a slot for it (I usually play with 53-56 cards dark elf decks and I cannot find room for it ).

The version of the Dark Elf control deck that I was running ran Orc and Dark Elf for things like the Lobber Crew and Easy Pickens, in combination with three Offerings to Hekarti and three ancient maps. The way I saw it, if you can get one quest down you can get a permanent lock on units with one HP, two quests gives you a lock on two, and so forth. Since very few people will have more than 3 HP, and most have 1 or 2, a couple of quests is usually sufficient to lock the board and between ancient maps, dark offerings, and the quest it self you usually have a good chance of getting two out fairly quickly. With sacrifices and a couple of other cheap units, you can populate the quests, and use cards such as the lobber crew to "prime" the quests and get some initial tokens on them to start things moving.

The deck works fairly well but the problem is that against the current empire monster, it is just too little and too late. Against other decks, it fares a little better, though churches completely shut the deck down unless can also find room to run pillages and burn it downs.

Zeruul said:

Your idea seems interesting but I think Burn it Down is mandatory for any competive DE deck. The use of Easy Pickings seems a bit limited if you are running cheap units on the quest. I think Pillage would be better if you want to play DE/orc. A DE/chaos version with Sorcerer of Tzeentch/Savage Gors/Burn it Down was also good until Zealot Hunter reappeared recently